Hello everyone,
I'm excited to take my kids on their first long road trip in the Moose! We are going from San Diego to the Grand Canyon for a week. This is also our first trip towing a car behind the bus. We are towing my wife's minivan on a tow dolly. We made it to my in-laws tonight approx 100 miles away but not before the check engine light came on. It first came on shortly after we left. Everything in the engine compartment looked and sounded normal, so I turned the bus off as well as 24 volt bus electricity. When I turned both back on the check engine light was off and all was well. Unfortunately the check engine light came back on approx 5 miles later as we pulled on the freeway. I decided since everything looked and sounded good I would keep going. The bus ran great, everything sounded and looked exactly like it's supposed to. All the gauges were normal.
Any ideas what this could be? My guess is it could have to do with towing the car, maybe the extra weight tripping a sensor or something? I installed a back-up camera yesterday but only spliced into the license plate lamp for power.
Any help would be appreciated, thanks!!
Jimmy
One answer:
Put the scan tool on it and find out.
Get yourself one for your coach, this won't be the last time...
Full stop.
Otherwise, your question will produce as much clarity as asking: What flavour of ice cream do y'all think I should buy the kids?
When you have the codes, THEN turn the busnuts loose on that info!
happy coaching!
buswarrior
What engine in the 102C3,Cummins,Cat or Detroit and the check engine light is not always a engine code problem
Quote from: luvrbus on March 20, 2017, 05:24:32 AM
What engine in the 102C3,Cummins,Cat or Detroit and the check engine light is not always a engine code problem
Detroit - 6v92 DDEC
Quote from: buswarrior on March 19, 2017, 10:51:32 PM
One answer:
Put the scan tool on it and find out.
Get yourself one for your coach, this won't be the last time...
Full stop.
Otherwise, your question will produce as much clarity as asking: What flavour of ice cream do y'all think I should buy the kids?
When you have the codes, THEN turn the busnuts loose on that info!
happy coaching!
buswarrior
I will 100% go and buy this tool, thank you!!
You can flash the codes without a Pro/Link you just cannot clear some codes ,you have any idea what version of DDEC you have,buying a scanner Pro/Link you need the right software or you wasted your money
Quote from: luvrbus on March 20, 2017, 06:44:48 AM
You can flash the codes without a Pro/Link you just cannot clear some codes ,you have any idea what version of DDEC you have,buying a scanner Pro/Link you need the right software or you wasted your money
I don't know. It's a 1993 bus which was the last year they made the 102C3's. Im going to do some research.
That one could be a ll or a 111 that was the change over years
Quote from: luvrbus on March 20, 2017, 07:05:59 AM
That one could be a ll or a 111 that was the change over years
I'm 95% positive it's a ll, trying to confirm.
On my bus (1992 MCI MC-12 DDEC III) I can turn the master switch ON (with motor NOT RUNNING), then flip the ENGINE OVERRIDE switch 3 times. This will flash the engine codes, there are 2 lights on the dash that will flash, you count the flashes between the short pauses to get the numbers. FLASH FLASH FLASH short pause FLASH FLASH long pause. This example would be code 32. All of the codes in the computer will flash like this over and over until I flip the ENGINE OVERRIDE switch one more time to make it stop.
Quote from: scott332 on March 20, 2017, 07:25:07 AM
On my bus (1992 MCI MC-12 DDEC III) I can turn the master switch ON (with motor NOT RUNNING), then flip the ENGINE OVERRIDE switch 3 times. This will flash the engine codes, there are 2 lights on the dash that will flash, you count the flashes between the short pauses to get the numbers. FLASH FLASH FLASH short pause FLASH FLASH long pause. This example would be code 32. All of the codes in the computer will flash like this over and over until I flip the ENGINE OVERRIDE switch one more time to make it stop.
I tried this but I don't have a switch just a "Emergency Engine Overide" button. I flipped the master switch, did not turn the bus on, pushed the override button 3 times but nothing came up.
I started the bus again and the check engine light is back Off. I would assume it will turn back on again after a few miles of running. Obviously in a car the check engine light will come back on everytime, even if you cycle the battery. Is this how it's also supposed to work on a bus?
Not sure about the C but on my D model there is a button and a check engine light in the A/C junction box in the front luggage bay.
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Quote from: thomasinnv on March 20, 2017, 07:58:01 AM
Not sure about the C but on my D model there is a button and a check engine light in the A/C junction box in the front luggage bay.
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I looked in the front luggage bay but did not see any junction boxes.
Update - everything continued to run fine, took it to gas station, filled it up and now won't start. I believe it's a battery issue, which doesn't make a lot of sense since I keep a trickle charge on it when not in use, plus it started like normal 20 mins before it wouldn't start again. Man bussing is a love/hate relationship!!
Quote from: JT4SC on March 20, 2017, 02:15:01 PM
Update - everything continued to run fine, took it to gas station, filled it up and now won't start. I believe it's a battery issue, which doesn't make a lot of sense since I keep a trickle charge on it when not in use, plus it started like normal 20 mins before it wouldn't start again. Man bussing is a love/hate relationship!!
The most common reason for a check engine light is low coolant...check that.
I doubt it is a battery issue.
Walk us through what is going on. When you turn the master switch on, before you turn the ignition, what happens? Do you show voltage? Does your transmission shift pad light up and show you in neutral?
We need more details.
It looks like it might be the coolant. Level looks real low. What do I mix in there, regular coolant and water?
Quote from: JT4SC on March 20, 2017, 05:00:33 PMIt looks like it might be the coolant. Level looks real low. What do I mix in there, regular coolant and water?
What is in it already? You *do* have a couple of gallons pre-mixed in your maintenance supplies, don't you???
You will get a ton of different answers on the coolant. Yes, it needs to be mixed. Since you are a new bus owner, I doubt you know what is in there.
I suggest that you get some 50/50 mix from a local truck stop. Then, as soon as you get back from this trip, flush the system and make sure you have the right stuff in there.
The 24V generator light on the control board in the engine compartment is not on. I believe it is always on, but could be mistaken. This would explain the dead battery and I would assume the check engine light. With that said the "Not Gen" light on the dash is NOT on, so that theory may be out the window.
If I can't figure this out tonight I will probably go to a service shop tomorrow morning.
Quote from: JT4SC on March 20, 2017, 05:00:33 PM
It looks like it might be the coolant. Level looks real low. What do I mix in there, regular coolant and water?
That was what I was thinking, but with DDEC you never know. My MUI engine just has a red indicator light on the dash for low coolant level. Your symptoms are exactly what happens when you are low on coolant.
Regular full strength green antifreeze and DISTILLED water 50/50 mix works for me.
--Geoff
Hi JT4SC, if the coolant is red in the coolant window, like mine, you dont add water. lvmci...
Quote from: lvmci on March 20, 2017, 08:08:40 PM
Hi JT4SC, if the coolant is red in the coolant window, like mine, you dont add water. lvmci...
It is red, so I guess mixing it with the 50/50 isn't a good idea?
I think NAPA, WW Williams, Stevensen, sells it. Smarter people than me will advise you, lvmci...
Quote from: JT4SC on March 20, 2017, 08:29:06 PM
It is red, so I guess mixing it with the 50/50 isn't a good idea?
The most common reason for a check engine light is low coolant...check that.
Your welcome.
Wet liner engines need an SCA additive in the coolant. Off the shelf stuff for diesel engines do come pre-charged, as per product label. It seems like a lot of DD 92's bite the dust because owners don't understand the importance of properly maintained engine coolant.
Update - I am now not as sure its the coolant, it was hard to tell the level on the sight glass yesterday. Now that the engine is totally cool it looks like the level in the surge tank is fine. Yesterday I put approx 1.5 gallons of 50/50 coolant in the lower reservoir tank.
Going to have to bite the bullet and take her in to a shop and see what they find. Thanks again for all your help, I'm always very appreciative of your expertise and your time to help me.
The code is for a failed speed sensor. The speedometer is working fine but they said it's most likely a sensor at the tranny. Anyone else had this issue?
My generator light in my engine bay control box is never on, just tell us does the engine turnover or not? If it is turning over and not starting then it's obviously not your battery it's probably low coolant. If it's not turning over then you need to figure out why.
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Does the check engine light come on if not check the fuse going to ECM code 43 low coolant both the Stop Engine and Check Engine should be on.
I don't know what is going here but the DDEC is supposed to run 7 seconds with the 43 code. I never saw a DDEC that would not start and run a few seconds then shut down with low coolant
Ditto what Cliff said. My bus will start and run for a bit before shutting down from a low coolant sensor
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After a frustrating 24 hours the folks at Valley Power Systems pluged in the diagnostic computer and the code said it was a faulty speed control sensor. We went on a test drive and the speedometer works fine but his hand-held diagnostic computer said we were going 0 mph.
They said its probably an issue with a sensor on the transmission. The transmission mechanic then came over, inspected the transmission and determined that the transmission was working fine as well. So they told me they didn't know exactly what was wrong, and that they would need to further inspect more of the bus to find the issue. He said in his opinion the bus was safe to drive on our trip, so that's what we did. We just got to the Grand Canyon KOA, and the bus ran great. We drove approx 400+ miles, everything looked, sounded and smelled fine. Only issue is I still have the check engine light on...
if anyone has any experience with a speed control sensor I'd love to pick your brain. It's frustrating the mechanics had the code but could not find the issue.
Thank you for your help!!!!
I have a 102C3 with a B500 transmission. The speed sensor has been one of my two problems with the bus. There are 3 speed sensors in the transmission. The one that is giving you problems is the one on the tail shaft of the transmission. If this isn't working you will not shift. If it isn't working like it should you will shift but show no speed. Now one has been able to tell me why, but I had the problem. Two years ago I replaced the sensor and it fixed the problem for 7000 miles. Last year same problem. I put a new plug on the wire going to the sensor and it fixed the problem again.
Ted at TKT told me that the plugs give lots of problems. He sold me a new plug with about a ft. of wire on it. I spliced the new plug on and so far everything is OK.
No one so far can tell me how the transmission can see the speed sensor and the odometer records miles, but it will not show speed.
Quote from: blue_goose on March 22, 2017, 08:57:29 AM
I have a 102C3 with a B500 transmission. The speed sensor has been one of my two problems with the bus. There are 3 speed sensors in the transmission. The one that is giving you problems is the one on the tail shaft of the transmission. If this isn't working you will not shift. If it isn't working like it should you will shift but show no speed. Now one has been able to tell me why, but I had the problem. Two years ago I replaced the sensor and it fixed the problem for 7000 miles. Last year same problem. I put a new plug on the wire going to the sensor and it fixed the problem again.
Ted at TKT told me that the plugs give lots of problems. He sold me a new plug with about a ft. of wire on it. I spliced the new plug on and so far everything is OK.
No one so far can tell me how the transmission can see the speed sensor and the odometer records miles, but it will not show speed.
Here is what doesn't make sense in my situation - the speedometer works and the tranny shifts at the exact speed it's supposed to shift.
Your transmission is probably a 700 series behind a 6v92 DDEC 11 I really doubt you have a World Allison like a B500 in your bus ,the 700 series ATEC transmissions are in a different world and place all of their own
The speedometer on your bus doesn't use the transmission sensor. I use a silverleaf as my speedometer, when the sensor was acting up it would record how many miles, but would not show speed.
Jack
If you have a 700 series Allison the scanner will not read the speed it has to be read at "maximum feature throttle interface" that connects the DDEC ECM to ATEC -1 ECO and it is a separate black box supplied by the manufacture of the bus ? what transmission do have without knowing we are guessing
Quote from: luvrbus on March 22, 2017, 11:29:53 AM
If you have a 700 series Allison the scanner will not read the speed it has to be read at "maximum feature throttle interface" that connects the DDEC ECM to ATEC -1 ECO and it is a separate black box supplied by the manufacture of the bus ? what transmission do have without knowing we are guessing
Hi everyone, we made it back from our trip, bus ran great, only issue was the check engine light. Luvrbus - I have confirmed the tranny is an Allison HT740.