I am pretty stoic, and have done without AC in my bus conversions for a long time, but my wife aint nearly as tolerant :(
She now insists we put some AC for camping (still using over the road AC while moving and that works just fine). She actually isnt asking a lot....mostly insistent on having some AC in the bedroom for sleeping and anything more than that would be gravy :)
So, if there is anyone in the FL-South Georgia area that is has been through this a time or two, I would appreciate someone looking at my set up and helping me determine the best way to go for my build.
I know that the easiest would be to put RV roof air units in where the hatches are, but I am not sure the easiest is going to be the best solution given cost and efficiency. I would really like to go with a mini-split, but pretty clueless as to where the best place to locate the condensing unit given everything else I already have in place.
Thanks in advance
Going to have to give us some more information. What spaces do you have available and where?
How about a rooftop unit with a Honda 3000is for a quick solution?
Looking more for the best solution (at a reasonable cost) rather than a quick solution.
I have an Onan 4K on board already.
The "more information" part is why I was really hoping for someone that could lay eyes on it. But, I have some space I COULD free up in any/all of the bays. I have read about folks putting stuff in the area where the bathroom holding tank is located...havent removed that yet, and so that is space I would have no problem giving up once I could get that tank out. IF that would be a good place to put it.
Front bay drivers side has my propane set up in it.
Middle bay drivers side has my holding tanks.
Back bay drivers side has my Onan4K and my house battery bank.
Front bay door side is just storage...currently pretty full with all of my dive equipment.
Middle bay door side has some stuff stored in it that I hope to sell of soon and part if it is taken up by a section of the fresh water tank.
Back bay door side has my automatic power switch, inverter, converter, and a slide out tray that is home to my tool box and various tools, extension cords, etc etc.
Bedroom is in the back, so that space currently taken up by the old bathroom holding tank would be close to where I want the AC, but I am just not sure if that is a good place to put it for other reasons and not all that eager to tackle getting that thing out either (which is why it is still there LOL)
I would say a rooftop is the easiest solution, and one AC is all that generator can handle.
--Geoff
I forgot to mention that I also have a propane fired furnace on board, and I dont hang out where I need heat much at all anyway. So, I only need a unit that cools and, I would suppose, that there might be some option to utilize the ducting in place for the furnace??
Geoff is giving good advice.
I would add that if you are using OTR air, then you could add two roof top units for when you are plugged in, since you don't need the cooling while driving.
You could only run one off the Onan 4K but the bride would be happy when parked in a campground.
Wire them so that the units are on opposite phases of the 50 amp connection.
The girls get to a certain age, and they do not like it hot.
I do like mini splits. I have two heads on one outside unit. They are very quiet and efficient. You mix the inside units using wall mounts, ceiling mounts, units with duct outlets, and floor units which sit on the floor and go up the wall. The larger units require 220vac and and I solved that problem using an 120v to 240v transformer with an amp meter on the 120v side. My limited experience and moderate temperature and caused a max of 10.8 amps at 120vac. These units have not had any surge or peek in amp draw because they use inverter technology I expect to get more data in the next several months as I get to travel some. I have run the units off by inverter going down the road without any problems. The outside unit doesn't require a lot of open space, but check with the specs of the unit you like. I installed a Daikin system. Systems and parts are readly available at "UR" United Refrigation stores nation wide.
I hope this helps some.
Art
3,000 watt generator will run a 13,500btu roof A/C. I doubt it could run a mini-split. Install one roof top 2/3 back from the front and you'll be plenty cool in the bedroom plus cool the rest of the bus at night. Good Luck, TomC
Two roofs tops would be the quickest option since you already have holes. On mine I thought of adding a home style air conditioner in the back between my cabinets above the bed. Build a slide in shelf and have the unit vent out the back of the bus. Went with roof tops because I could not put a home style in the front living area.
You already enjoy "open air" camping, and know it works for your coach.
Don't take the lazy way by dropping roof airs into the roof vent holes.
You won't have vents anymore. Cut their own holes.
The roof air/mini-split/basement air debate is both a financial and a subjective decision.
Too many variables between busnuts, you'll have to make your own choice!!
Cheapest to buy is a roof air.
But they squat up there, pimples on the arse, raise the height of the coach, perhaps noisy in operation, most are simple and brutish power consumers.
Mini-split needs a home underneath, and somewhere to mount the evaporator upstairs. Many/most have soft start/variable power/inverter technology that they moderate their power surges and consumption. Reported as quiet in operation. No roof hole to cut and seal.
Compromise = busnut
What do you want to spend up front?
How much power do you want it to need, surge and running?
What do you want the coach to look like, in and out, when you are done?
happy coaching!
buswarrior
I don't have AC in mine. I just stay out of it during the heat of the day!
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I don't have a problem with roof airs-- I have three. Mine are Coleman so they are not boxy plus they are painted the color of the bus. Two are mounted over the old escape hatches and I cut a hole for the center one. Since I installed mine many years ago, there are low profile units available. Just paint to match and it will look fine.
--Geoff
Dometic also makes basement units that just have to be ducted up. Roof mounts are by far the easiest. Use at least two-I have three on my 40ft. Good Luck, TomC
One thing I've thought about is putting a very small window unit under the bus.
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We have two roof AC's for 35ft. They work fine. Actually it is rare that we need both. I find the bedroom unit loud for sleep, so we just leave the front unit on with the door open, which is then quiet and comfortable. There are certainly more premium ways t go, but this works well, is low maintenance, and easily replaceable should the need arise.As far as the appearance goes, it does not bother me. It's like when someone asks me how I can stand being so ugly. I reply that I don't have to see me--they do.
We love our one & only roof top, we're on our 2nd one in over 38 years. They hold up fantastic and will drop inside temp at least 20 degrees lower than ambient. We're talkin' 13,500 btu on less than 11 amps HE not to mention the heat strip.
Hey Dan, As of now I removed the dead 30 year old roof ac that was mounted towards the front,I tried a portable unit as a temporary solution but that was a joke. I also have been playing with the idea of a basement unit because I want to keep the beautiful roof line of the 4104 . Now I see the low profile units out there and may just want to go roof top again, I think one unit would be fine, what kind worked for you and do you run the genny while on the road , I have a 4k onan right now, thanks
For just the bedroom, why not get a free-standing room AC unit, around 7.5 - 9 Kbtu? Put it in a closet, duct with a hose out a port in the side or roof (I was planning on ducting through the existing port for the refrigerator), drain hose through the floor, cheap, and can be pretty quiet. https://www.lowes.ca/air-conditioners/aeonair-rpac08ee-8000-btu-200-sq-ft-115-volt-portable-air-conditioner_g2461383.html (https://www.lowes.ca/air-conditioners/aeonair-rpac08ee-8000-btu-200-sq-ft-115-volt-portable-air-conditioner_g2461383.html)
Quote from: bevans6 on March 17, 2017, 06:05:26 AMFor just the bedroom, why not get a free-standing room AC unit, around 7.5 - 9 Kbtu? Put it in a closet, duct with a hose out a port in the side or roof (I was planning on ducting through the existing port for the refrigerator), drain hose through the floor, cheap, and can be pretty quiet. https://www.lowes.ca/air-conditioners/aeonair-rpac08ee-8000-btu-200-sq-ft-115-volt-portable-air-conditioner_g2461383.html (https://www.lowes.ca/air-conditioners/aeonair-rpac08ee-8000-btu-200-sq-ft-115-volt-portable-air-conditioner_g2461383.html)
I have one of those. It's made to draw inside (already cooled) air out of the living space to cool the condenser, then the already cooled air and the heat from the condenser are exhausted. It blows it's cool output outside. I've looked at trying to find a way to duct it so that I double the ducts and draw outside air to cool the condensor - the way it's designed, that's difficult without changing the ducting and baffling inside the unit. It is almost worthless. I use it when my bus in is an covered work area for bedroom cooling at night and with all that and everything going for it, it's barely worth the effort. Plus, it's not quiet.
Hi Nel
We replaced an old energy hog Fridgeiking many years ago with a Dometic Briskair HE 13500 btu. With the newer freon it takes longer for the unit to get cold but once it gets in its groove it is cooler output air than the older unit was. The amazing thing about the high efficiency unit is is takes 5 to 6 amps less to run than the older unit (same btu rating). The roofline never bothered me although if we ever need to replace what we have now we would probably go with a low profile unit. We have been running the roof air on the 6.5 Onan but will soon be able to run it on an inverter replenished by the new 200 amp alternator. Trying to get that set up prior to summer around the corner.
Bruce-you're solution is to get a portable A/C with two hoses-one pulls air from the outside, the second blows the hot air out. Then you're not constantly pulling in hot and possibly humid air into the bus. We have three Soleus heat pumps in our condo. Cools 1,000sq/ft well. Good Luck, TomC
I can tell you from experience the low profile Dometic Penquin ll is a joke ,it's nothing but a piece of plastic junk using 410 Freon they tell you it is 3 speed like the older Penquins ???
I have never found the low setting on the noise thing, only thing I can figure is they count the off position as a speed setting.They were supposed to replace mine (2nd one) with a Coleman but sent me another friggn Penguin ll
Quote from: TomC on March 17, 2017, 06:55:43 AMBruce-you're solution is to get a portable A/C with two hoses-one pulls air from the outside, the second blows the hot air out. Then you're not constantly pulling in hot and possibly humid air into the bus. We have three Soleus heat pumps in our condo. Cools 1,000sq/ft well. Good Luck, TomC
Yes, Tom. I sorta knew that when I got to the point of buying the one I'm using but one wasn't immediately available and I only wanted to have a unit that was "good enough" to cool and dehumidify the bedroom at night while I was spending a few days at the time on conversion work. It is "good enough" most of the time, but it sure doesn't work well. I have to make a more permanent and well thought-out solution (integrated into a full-bus system) but I don't see how the "one hose" units would be much use to anyone.
I have 3 roof top a/c units . 2 are the old style 3 speed and quiet ( 17 years old ) the bed room 1 is newish and only has 2 speeds and was loud up until I installed a fan dimmer switch on the fan unit . now I can slow down the power and noise of the fan and the a/c compressor works fine if I speed up the fan to about 85 % speed . I do miss the split unit I had on the mci . very quiet .
dave
Putting a speed control on the fan seems like an interesting idea. Since the mode selection and speed control on mine are part of the same switch, I am not sure how you do that.
the first a/c I did it on was easy all from the inside shroud . find the wire that controls the low speed on the fan then cut the wire and add the length of wire you need to mount the fan speed control were you want it then back to the wire that was cut . I use heat shrink on all connections and they are inside the a/c unit . on the r/v I have now I had to remove the shroud on the roof to find the low speed wire , other then a little more wire it was the same thing . I mounted the speed control on the side of the a/c shroud (inside above bed ) on the first coach and inside the hinged intake vent cover on the r/v I have now
https://www.lowes.com/pd/Lutron-Rotary-Fully-Variable-5-Amp-White-Indoor-Rotary-Fan-Control/3189379 (https://www.lowes.com/pd/Lutron-Rotary-Fully-Variable-5-Amp-White-Indoor-Rotary-Fan-Control/3189379)
dave
The only problem I see with slowing fan speed down is the slower the speed the less dehumidifying the A/C will perform.
The only problem I see with slowing fan speed down is the slower the speed the less dehumidifying the A/C will perform.
and the sooner it will ice up ::) ::)
but now you can sleep !
when its really hot yes the fan is on high
dave
Quote from: sledhead on March 18, 2017, 06:16:25 AMbut now you can sleep !
when its really hot yes the fan is on high
dave
Choice is good.
I bought a new Dometic 13,500 btu Penguin II Low Profile Air Conditioner Top Unit (D214-640315)
It is loud, and horrible. I wanted to return it , they would not take it back.
Can any one recommend a good roof top ac that does mot make a racket and actually cool
Thanks
Chris
mci5c
I recently replaced a Coleman mach 13.5 with an atwood air command 15k heat pump. The Coleman on the low setting was noisier than the atwood on high. Came with a remote too so I can make changes while driving without having to switch on the cruise control and get out of the driver seat.
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Attwood are Dometic now ,the Penguin ll is a joke I wanted the low/ pro Coleman Mach 8 but American RV sent me another ftiggn Penguin ll.I have no idea if the Mach 8 is any better or not but it couldn't be any worse ???
Love our old colemans. On low are pretty quit on high louder but not bad. I have got used to them and at night when hot if the noise is on I fall asleep faster, lol. Sometimes they will slow down on high. I go up and oil the fan shaft and off they go again for another 6 months. Love them. ;D
mach air any good? can anyone suggest the quietest coolest roof air ?
Thanks
Chris
Not sure the word "quiet" may be used to describe any roof air?
Comparing one with less noise to another more noisier one does NOT mean quiet.
There is no free lunch, but paying for a nice lunch, makes for a nice meal?
Starting with more sophisticated equipment, employing sophisticated ducting strategies and materials...
I spent way too long putting up with unnecessary fan noises, generator noises, engine noises at work.
There ARE alternatives, do not put up with cheap, poorly installed, noisey equipment, if you want SILENCE.
Of course, all these noises do drown out the noise of the neighbours... but with a bus conversion, why do you have neighbours??
happy coaching!
buswarrior
I hadn't thought of noise. Now I'm sure I don't want an AC unit.
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Yes, nothing like older R22 units. I have 3-13,500btu Coleman Machs that I bought in 1993. Except for replacing the exterior shroud on one, no maintenance (course cleaning filters). Good Luck, TomC
Since rooftops might be noisy, has anyone mounted a rooftop inside a storage area and routed the airflow via ducting into the coach? Of course there are required customization by hardly beyond the capabilities of those here. Seems like a good solution: get reliable and good value of a rooftop, the quiet of a forced air system, and no externally mounted units on the rooftop.
Quote from: windtrader on March 21, 2017, 10:31:31 AMSince rooftops might be noisy, has anyone mounted a rooftop inside ...
Tom C has.
Quote from: windtrader on March 21, 2017, 10:31:31 AM
Since rooftops might be noisy, has anyone mounted a rooftop inside a storage area and routed the airflow via ducting into the coach? Of course there are required customization by hardly beyond the capabilities of those here. Seems like a good solution: get reliable and good value of a rooftop, the quiet of a forced air system, and no externally mounted units on the rooftop.
Bob Glines did this in his first Prevost (2rd bus) conversion in the bedroom.
But Bob now swears by the mini-split systems and says they are a better solution than his "homemade split" system.
;D BK ;D
I admired Tom C's Penguin basement post in 2012; Tom, did you find this satisfactory, or should I bite the bullet and go with mini-splits? I have two Penguin X 13500 in storage, and my expectations are "reasonable".
Paul
ok Im gonna ask a dumb question, kinda new to all this ...what is a mini split a/c system?
Quote from: TomC on March 13, 2017, 10:16:38 PM
3,000 watt generator will run a 13,500btu roof A/C. I doubt it could run a mini-split. Install one roof top 2/3 back from the front and you'll be plenty cool in the bedroom plus cool the rest of the bus at night. Good Luck, TomC
I would do this as well. In the interim, get a small dehumidifier and put it in the bedroom. It alone will lower the temp.
And while I really try to post from a unisex perspective, this topic is the exception.I understand there are women all over the world who have never known conditioned air. But for those of us that have, AC is less of a luxury than a necessity. I'm certain I don't have to explain why.
one primarily (as are most) intended for a home. new design more robust than a window unit...sorta :)
(https://static.wixstatic.com/media/c42a4d_2b3e25c15ed6a133406bb0e7d7cd7d56.gif_srz_351_545_85_22_0.50_1.20_0.00_gif_srz)
http://www.homedepot.com/b/Heating-Venting-Cooling-Air-Conditioners-Coolers-Air-Conditioners-Ductless-Mini-Splits/N-5yc1vZc4m1 (http://www.homedepot.com/b/Heating-Venting-Cooling-Air-Conditioners-Coolers-Air-Conditioners-Ductless-Mini-Splits/N-5yc1vZc4m1)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IHDT5ZEpKkw (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IHDT5ZEpKkw)
Quote from: dj on July 08, 2017, 10:32:17 AMok Im gonna ask a dumb question, kinda new to all this ...what is a mini split a/c system?
What it is, how it works, and how the pieces look.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ozaw9QhxkQU (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ozaw9QhxkQU)
My experience with using a dehumidifier in specific area is that it will warm the air a few degrees, even as it lowers humidity.
I have 3 mini-split in mine . Running 1ea 9000 btu today 92 deg outside 70 inside. Not for the beginner and easy way is roof air. Splits run about 35db on high where a roof top =65. If you use pay attention to detail and fasten everything securely. Keep them clean! use inverter type. You hear about those who have failed but I promise you there are many more that have had success.Compare prices... I pay about 600$ for a 9000 with a seer of 16. Lots of subject matter here on past experiences.
Quote from: chessie4905 on July 08, 2017, 01:18:55 PM
My experience with using a dehumidifier in specific area is that it will warm the air a few degrees, even as it lowers humidity.
Correct.
All the electric energy that a dehumidifier uses becomes waste heat in the space it is running.
1 kilowatt makes 3412 BTU, work up or down from there.
Which actually helps the process vs an air conditioner under certain conditions.
We have all been in a clammy RV, when it is raining, the outside temp is basically within the range of the AC setting, and the AC won't kick in to dehumidify...
happy coaching!
buswarrior
Roof airs are the easiest.
My Penguins that I used are 15,000btu (stronger blower, same compressor), and has the older metal fans, and plastic housing-not plastic fans with styrofoam housing. It is a complicated conversion, but they work well and very quiet. Good Luck, TomC
Quote from: robertglines1 on July 08, 2017, 03:07:00 PM
I have 3 mini-split in mine . Running 1ea 9000 btu today 92 deg outside 70 inside. Not for the beginner and easy way is roof air. Splits run about 35db on high where a roof top =65. If you use pay attention to detail and fasten everything securely. Keep them clean! use inverter type. You hear about those who have failed but I promise you there are many more that have had success.Compare prices... I pay about 600$ for a 9000 with a seer of 16. Lots of subject matter here on past experiences.
Bob - what manufacturer and model are you using?
I went the MiniSplit Route I installed a 24000 BTU Fujitsu Inverter outdoor unit, setup for three indoor units and I used 3 9000 BTU "Ducted" indoor units. Its a 208 unit so I 'm currently using a step up transformer to run the unit over the road off of the inverter. Max current is 16 amps, but its usually way less.
I built the indoor units in the bottom back of closets and use the back of the closet to create a duct and get the air to the ceiling. I removed my non-functional OTR A/C and put the outdoor unit where the condenser was after removing the coil, fan, pipe and expansion tank.
Ive only tested it with the bus parked but it cools really well and it was draining about a gallon and a half of water per hour from all three indoor units. Road test is in two weeks.
Larry
MCI 103C3 Cummins L-10 Allison Auto
Good choice! The Fujitsu Inverter in my opinion is the best made at the moment. I have used mine for over a year and its awesome.
Quote from: chessie4905 on July 08, 2017, 01:18:55 PM
My experience with using a dehumidifier in specific area is that it will warm the air a few degrees, even as it lowers humidity.
I have a large one and a small one. The large one does warm the air that it blows back out, but not so much as to erase the benefit. I'll use California as an example. In Beverly Hills...when it's 92, it's not that bad. In Richmond VA, when it's 92...its miserable.
The moisture in the air makes it seem hotter than it is, and it will absolutely turn clean laundry into "musty" laundry...and if given time, will warp wood and cause black mold growth.