We are going to get a conversion this year and I'm not sure what engine I should look for. This is our first bus. We plan on touring extensively and living in it at some point.
I am definitely NOT A MECHANIC.
What IYHO is the best engine? v71, V92 or a 60?
Quote from: Chris & Beverly on February 18, 2017, 07:31:49 PM
We are going to get a conversion this year and I'm not sure what engine I should look for. This is our first bus. We plan on touring extensively and living in it at some point.
I am definitely NOT A MECHANIC.
What IYHO is the best engine? v71, V92 or a 60?
Any engine that goes vroom is a good engine. Honestly you're worrying over the small stuff. I have a dt466. One of my mechanic friends says good engine. Another says not a bad engine but hard to work on. With the mikes we will put on them, it's not worth stressing.
My work bus does 140 miles daily. That's about 28,000 miles a year. By the time that bus is retired in 25 years it will have 700,000 miles on it.
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The newest you can afford and if they say its been rebuilt get proof in writing. Check date codes on tires also...Good Luck
The 2 stroke Detroits-71 and 92 series-are getting harder and harder to find anyone to work on them. Highly recommend you fine a bus with a 4 stroke engine like the Detroit Series 50 or 60, Cummins or Cat engine. You'll get better fuel mileage also. Good Luck, TomC
Quote from: Dave5Cs on February 18, 2017, 11:04:17 PMThe newest you can afford and if they say its been rebuilt get proof in writing. Check date codes on tires also...Good Luck
Can't agree more with Dave. *Far* more important than the kind of engine is the maintenance that an engine has had and the care and expertise put into its most recent rebuild (and you have to expect to get an engine that's been rebuilt (or had major repairs/overhaul) sometime in its life. Also, note TomC's comment of availability of support for older engines. When you're buying an engine, you're buying the shape that it's in now and you're buying the need for maintenance, support, and repairs you'll need in the future.
As a NON MECHANIC,,why would you even consider a BUS??? There are so many late model motorhomes with all the amenities and ready to go with modern day engines, transmissions,suspensions,brakes,and parts and support facilities that are available all over the country...Make your life a lot easier and stay modern,, the very question you asked is the reason for my response.>>>Dan
2 strokes mechanics are really not that hard to find,good ones are sometimes though depending on what area you are in.
The advantage the 2 strokes had for years was the price for a overhaul and you could rebuild one and install it and kick the throttle wide open without any break in period, those days are gone parts are expensive it is nothing now to spend 20 to 30+k on rebuilding one.
Then you always have the heating problem if not careful and chasing that friggin 40w engine oil.
I love my 2 strokes next to the 3406-425 hp CAT the 8v92TA was the best engine made in their day IMO but find you a conversion with a series 60 -12.7 non EGR engine and you won't regret it.
Cummins builds a good engine now it the old days we would spell Cummins Com-a-part,the IH 466 without a EGR is a good engine the EGR models are nightmare,and some CAT engines have problems to ,but the series 60 without the EGR have a proven track record
GO SLOWLY YOUNG MAN,,,,,,,,,VERY SLOWLY!!
When you're serious about a specific bus, get an experienced eye to check it out for you.
Your budget will influence how picky you can be about engine choice.
If you focus your search on the high quality, factory built motorhomes (Newell, Foretravel, Liberty, Marathon, etc) You will be way ahead. They are usually better engineered. Also, they usually have enjoyed better maintenance. If the drive train is in good shape, it will last a long long time
Welcome to the brave world of Bus Nuts!
I'll echo what has been said this far...save one point. The space of the engine compartment in the bus you buy will matter.
Personally, I just love my DD 8V71. I have plenty of room in the MC8 to even add a turbo. If you are not a mechanic, you will be, soon. I believe it's easier to fix a mechanical engine. I despise diagnostic tools for engines with computers.
But the first consideration is finding a bus with good bones (read NO RUST), solid suspension etc. However, before you can do that...you need to figure out what type of bus you prefer. MCI, Eagle, Prevost (a BUS not a motor home). If you start there, in a few years you'll be a pro...and you'll still be asking questions.
The people here are 100% dependable.
Quote from: daddysgirl on February 19, 2017, 10:07:19 AM
Welcome to the brave world of Bus Nuts!
I'll echo what has been said this far...save one point. The space of the engine compartment in the bus you buy will matter.
Personally, I just love my DD 8V71. I have plenty of room in the MC8 to even add a turbo. If you are not a mechanic, you will be, soon. I believe it's easier to fix a mechanical engine. I despise diagnostic tools for engines with computers.
But the first consideration is finding a bus with good bones (read NO RUST), solid suspension etc. However, before you can do that...you need to figure out what type of bus you prefer. MCI, Eagle, Prevost (a BUS not a motor home). If you start there, in a few years you'll be a pro...and you'll still be asking questions.
The people here are 100% dependable.
I've had some odd technical advice so don't trust intimate technical advice too much. General conversions yes - most people here that claim to have converted a bus have at least had a friend that converted one.
I've converted a 1984 Carpenter 3800. There are a few things still to be done. I need to install a main breaker box fir the 120v plugin. I need to replace the entire right wiper mechanism and switch. I need to redo the reversing horn. I'm working today on paneling over two rear windows, using plywood. I need to buy a 20 ton jack to jack the bus up to check the kingpins.
Other than that, it's completed.
There is no AC. There is a solar powered extraction fan. My experience of that is that I would never willingly throw money away on solar crap again. Instead, I'd put a 100ah deep cycle battery under the bus with connections to the extraction fans and some onboard USB sockets for charging mini pads, tablets and phones. I'd put a switch in that allows me to charge the battery off the alternator when the bus is running and possibly off 120v when available.
At some future point, I might install a water inlet so I can tap into onsite water rather than carrying jerry cans. At some point I might add an instant water heater rather than boiling water in a kettle over a camping stove then mixing it with cold and using a battery powered shower pump. I might also replace my composting toilet (bucket) with something fancier with a nasty emptying process.
At some future point I might change my mirror system.
Right now, I'm happy.
By the way, my engine is a mechanical dt466. My bus will keep on going before, during and after EMP!
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BTW, mine has an all mechanical 8V92 with an allison 4 spd automatic. So far, extremely happy with it. I average between 6 & 7 mpg. Coach weighs 36000 lbs. 30 years old, ~160k miles, fires right up. Will easily start in the mid 30'sF without preheat or starter fluid - so it will out last me.
But, like others have said - how you plan on using it & what your needs are will also need to be considered.
Thank you all. Info on the engines seems to back up what I've been reading. I know it makes sense to pick the bus and then make sure it has a good motor. I want to do my best to avoid breaking down on the side (or middle) of the road. I know that anything can break but I would like to minimize the odds.
In terms of brands the MCI's are newer with better parts availability but they are boring to look at. The Eagles and Scenic Cruisers are beautiful but parts and wear are a bigger issue. Prevost have the reputation of being solid but they may be a little too fancy for us.
I have been notified by the Boss that I get to pick the mechanics but the rest of it is her domain and I don't get a vote.
Thanks again. I will take all the advice I can get.
Don't even look at a bus if it doesn't have the engine/transmission in it isn't what you want. You will never change them to something else. If you are planning on going into elevation a lot, I would recommend staying away from the 71 engine. They are slow in the mountains. As in hoping you will make it to the top if it's steep and long. We have one. They do run forever, but we find ourselves picking our routes sometimes. It flies on the flats.
Don and Cary
Wow you aren't starting out very well by coming on here and insulting MCI people and then asking for advice
without talking about the rust on an eagle's or the way they put engine the wrong way in a GM, Just kidding guys couldn't resist, LOL Boringgggggg We call them a delux shoebox thank you very much.... :o ;D
Dave5Cs
All he said was that MCI's are boring to look at, well, he might have a point, but they do look nicer on the inside. ;) There are many beautiful conversions out there, they will find one if they can afford it, and the mechanic that comes with it in the separate bedroom. ;D
Chris,
Go with a series 60 since you are new to the game. In the bigger picture, you will have less agony working with that engine that you will a 2-cycle. There is nothing wrong with a 2-cycle, like everyone has stated above, its hard to find a Detroit shop that knows how to REALLY work on them. Read the thread with the title "broke down in Farmington New Mexico", and you'll get a taste of the worse care scenario when it comes to a 2-cycle and a authorized Detroit Shop.
LOL,Brian you guys weren't exactly SnowWhite in the deal either,it seem like what could go wrong did on that one
Many buses are already converted. You can save YEARS of work by buying an already converted bus then modify it to your liking. Buses are tough, commercial vehicles. BUT be ready for big parts and repair bills when something does break. If you don't feel you can afford the repair bills (I carry a credit card with at least $20,000 on it) then maybe a cheaper motorhome would be better. Comparing a sticks and staples motorhome to a bus just isn't far. My 40ft transit bus based bus with everything in it, tanks full, and both of us in it weighs 31,000lbs. With a 36,000lb GVW (Gross Vehicle Weight) rating, my bus is still 5,000lb away from it's weight limit. You won't find a motorhome made like that.
So many questions you must have-just keep in touch here! Good Luck, TomC
Just a note, you may already have considered. If the conversion is not going to be driven more frequently then once or twice a year, dont get a gasoline engine. Diesel engines and fuel tanks can sit unused much longer then gasoline engines. Rust is the non driveline mechanical problem with bus conversions. Lvmci...
My opinion would be to get one that needs a lot of work...for cheap. [I'd never buy anyones conversion either, but thats just me.] Then when you get the work done, you'll know what you have and what to expect. Other than that, its all a guessing game.
Quote from: opus on February 20, 2017, 04:37:34 PM
My opinion would be to get one that needs a lot of work...for cheap. [I'd never buy anyones conversion either, but thats just me.] Then when you get the work done, you'll know what you have and what to expect. Other than that, its all a guessing game.
I bought a converted bus and had to strip it all out because it was so poorly done.
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My mistake. The MC5's are absolutely beautiful. It's those other MCIs that are boring boxes. (Feel better now Dave?)
Quote from: Chris & Beverly on February 19, 2017, 03:13:17 PM
Thank you all. Info on the engines seems to back up what I've been reading. I know it makes sense to pick the bus and then make sure it has a good motor. I want to do my best to avoid breaking down on the side (or middle) of the road. I know that anything can break but I would like to minimize the odds.
In terms of brands the MCI's are newer with better parts availability but they are boring to look at. The Eagles and Scenic Cruisers are beautiful but parts and wear are a bigger issue. Prevost have the reputation of being solid but they may be a little too fancy for us.
I have been notified by the Boss that I get to pick the mechanics but the rest of it is her domain and I don't get a vote.
Thanks again. I will take all the advice I can get.
A bit of advice from a person who was recently in the same boat you are in .I have been around buses off and on all my life and have owned motor homes for the last forty years .I got the bus bug bad about two years ago and bought a beautiful Prevost conversion.I am no engine man either so let me tell you what I have found out.Mine has the 8v92tdls engine .When I took it to a local truck repair shop for an oil change they put 15/40 Rotella in it .Luckily ,I did not drive it very much before someone on here ,think it was Dave ,told me to get that stuff out of there and put 40wt in it which I did .BUT it got this thing to dribbling oil out the of the airbox drains which has to stopped since I went back to the 40wt .Haven;t took it on a long trip yet.What I would do if I were you ,I would take the advice another person already gave you .Forget the bus and find you a good high end motor home.American Coach up through 2002 were great motor homes .Find one with the Cummins 8.3 and a 6 speed Allison .I would stay away from Country Coach .A lot of people are crazy about these things but they are very prone to problems .All those high end bells and whistles start giving out .I have a 1995 American Coach (fleetwood in those days}and it has been a very dependable coach .I was going to sell it and keep the Prevost ,but I am really giving this a hard second look.I hate to let the prevo go since I have a fortune tied up in it ,but I am convinced that that would be my best option
I guess I'll add a little more. I am an engine/truck/bus guy. As I said, I would never buy anyones conversion, knowing not what they did, how they did it, how it will catch fire or develop leaks, on and on. I didnt buy a Prevost/Eagle/MCI, etc. I ended up buying a 1995 Blue Bird school bus, ripped the seats out and went from there. Granted, BIG difference than what most these guys are running around in, big! On the other hand, everything in my bus is generic, parts are easy to find and repairs dont require a specialist and they mainly are inexpensive. School buses are stout and if you find the right one, you can get a good highway runner. I am into my bus for less than most of you are into your car.
With that being said, there are sacrifices to be made, A/C, interior height should you need it. With that known, you can build it exactly how you want and spend as much as you want.
Just another way to skin a cat.
Quote from: opus on February 21, 2017, 07:36:49 AM
I guess I'll add a little more. I am an engine/truck/bus guy. As I said, I would never buy anyones conversion, knowing not what they did, how they did it, how it will catch fire or develop leaks, on and on. I didnt buy a Prevost/Eagle/MCI, etc. I ended up buying a 1995 Blue Bird school bus, ripped the seats out and went from there. Granted, BIG difference than what most these guys are running around in, big! On the other hand, everything in my bus is generic, parts are easy to find and repairs dont require a specialist and they mainly are inexpensive. School buses are stout and if you find the right one, you can get a good highway runner. I am into my bus for less than most of you are into your car.
With that being said, there are sacrifices to be made, A/C, interior height should you need it. With that known, you can build it exactly how you want and spend as much as you want.
Just another way to skin a cat.
All my interior is hand built woodwork. 90% of my parts come from Lowes/ace/Home Depot/Harbor Freight/Walmart.
No AC. Just don't see the point to be honest.
No house battery. Just don't see the point.
Cooking is done on a portable camp stove
Refrigeration - a large cooler powered by ice
Lighting - D cell powered led lanterns
Shower - pump powered by d cells
Water heating - on the camp stove
Waste water disposal - gravity fed into waste barrels underneath the bus
Turd disposal - a composting toilet unit I built.
Urine disposal - wide mouthed orange juice jar from Walmart.
Fresh water carried onboard in 5 gallon jerry cans.
Ventilation - solar powered.
Phone charging - power takeoff from ventilation unit.
120v AC plugin available - powers 3 sockets in the kitchen are allowing a mini fridge and two other appliances. 3 spare breakers available.
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Wow, Zephod! Then on the other spectrum is what I did. Rebuilt engine, transmission, everything in the engine compartment and turbocharged the engine with 130 gal fuel, added Jake Brakes. 10kw Diesel generator powering 3 roof top air conditioning (I live in California). 130gal water, 85 gal gray, 45 gal black, 2-8D deep cycle, 2-31 starting, 2500 watt inverter, washer/dryer, 9cu/ft 120v/12v refrigerator, 120v/12v 2.1cu/ft chest freezer, microwave, 3 burner propane stove, 40,000btu propane furnace, etc.
Built on a 1977 AMGeneral transit bus 10240B high floor. It has 22" under floor space.
If you want cheap-look for a Gillig Phantom 40ft x 102" high floor transit with Detroit Series 50 engine. 6'10" headroom, straight sided walls, huge windows, air ride, etc. Good Luck, TomC
Quote from: Zephod on February 21, 2017, 09:14:35 AM
All my interior is hand built woodwork. 90% of my parts come from Lowes/ace/Home Depot/Harbor Freight/Walmart.
No AC. Just don't see the point to be honest.
No house battery. Just don't see the point.
Cooking is done on a portable camp stove
Refrigeration - a large cooler powered by ice
Lighting - D cell powered led lanterns
Shower - pump powered by d cells
Water heating - on the camp stove
Waste water disposal - gravity fed into waste barrels underneath the bus
Turd disposal - a composting toilet unit I built.
Urine disposal - wide mouthed orange juice jar from Walmart.
Fresh water carried onboard in 5 gallon jerry cans.
Ventilation - solar powered.
Phone charging - power takeoff from ventilation unit.
120v AC plugin available - powers 3 sockets in the kitchen are allowing a mini fridge and two other appliances. 3 spare breakers available.
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I kept everything 12v, lighting, heat. I do have a power supply that changes 110v into 12v. Also have some 110v outlets for times when we can plug in. 4k generator too, which we hardly use.
Quote from: Dave5Cs on February 19, 2017, 06:09:12 PM
Wow you aren't starting out very well by coming on here and insulting MCI people and then asking for advice
without talking about the rust on an eagle's or the way they put engine the wrong way in a GM, Just kidding guys couldn't resist, LOL Boringgggggg We call them a delux shoebox thank you very much.... :o ;D
Dave5Cs
Hey Dave...
How many MC8's that are original...no 9 caps etc... would you guess are still out there? That's the reason I will never change the front cap, it's not always "Hip to be Square" right? ::)
Mine is original also. MCI 5Cs Saudi. ;D
Quote from: luvrbus on February 20, 2017, 08:21:15 AM
LOL,Brian you guys weren't exactly SnowWhite in the deal either,it seem like what could go wrong did on that one
luvrbus - interesting comment from someone looking from the WAY outside in. I spoke to George the other day to schedule his visit to our facility to fix some issues on his engine the authorized Detroit shop had no idea how to address. Overall, I believe George is a satisfied customer, because if he wasn't in the slightest, I'm sure he would have posted his concerns for everyone to see and he would not have called us to schedule a visit.
Yes, he had a turbo issue when he left, that was quickly resolved, at the end of the day American Fleet came away with a customer for life and the dealer George was at lost one. I think the "Snow White" comment should be directed at the Dealer. LOL.
Quote from Zephod:
"No AC. Just don't see the point to be honest.
No house battery. Just don't see the point.
Cooking is done on a portable camp stove
Refrigeration - a large cooler powered by ice
Lighting - D cell powered led lanterns
Shower - pump powered by d cells
Water heating - on the camp stove
Waste water disposal - gravity fed into waste barrels underneath the bus
Turd disposal - a composting toilet unit I built.
Urine disposal - wide mouthed orange juice jar from Walmart.
Fresh water carried onboard in 5 gallon jerry cans.
Ventilation - solar powered.
Phone charging - power takeoff from ventilation unit.
120v AC plugin available - powers 3 sockets in the kitchen are allowing a mini fridge and two other appliances. 3 spare breakers available."
Wow! Did you remove the seats?
Quote from: Lin on February 28, 2017, 12:05:48 PM
Quote from Zephod:
"No AC. Just don't see the point to be honest.
No house battery. Just don't see the point.
Cooking is done on a portable camp stove
Refrigeration - a large cooler powered by ice
Lighting - D cell powered led lanterns
Shower - pump powered by d cells
Water heating - on the camp stove
Waste water disposal - gravity fed into waste barrels underneath the bus
Turd disposal - a composting toilet unit I built.
Urine disposal - wide mouthed orange juice jar from Walmart.
Fresh water carried onboard in 5 gallon jerry cans.
Ventilation - solar powered.
Phone charging - power takeoff from ventilation unit.
120v AC plugin available - powers 3 sockets in the kitchen are allowing a mini fridge and two other appliances. 3 spare breakers available."
Wow! Did you remove the seats?
It reminds me of us starting out with a metal tent on wheels. Warning-- if you move up to a potta-potty don't open the lid after climbing a mountain or you will have a very unpleasant experience.
--Geoff
Quote from: Lin on February 28, 2017, 12:05:48 PM
Quote from Zephod:
"No AC. Just don't see the point to be honest.
No house battery. Just don't see the point.
Cooking is done on a portable camp stove
Refrigeration - a large cooler powered by ice
Lighting - D cell powered led lanterns
Shower - pump powered by d cells
Water heating - on the camp stove
Waste water disposal - gravity fed into waste barrels underneath the bus
Turd disposal - a composting toilet unit I built.
Urine disposal - wide mouthed orange juice jar from Walmart.
Fresh water carried onboard in 5 gallon jerry cans.
Ventilation - solar powered.
Phone charging - power takeoff from ventilation unit.
120v AC plugin available - powers 3 sockets in the kitchen are allowing a mini fridge and two other appliances. 3 spare breakers available."
Wow! Did you remove the seats?
No seats in there aside from the driver's seat and the toilet.
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Ya gotta love that 'Wide Mouthed Orange Juice Jar' from Walmart. I knew they were better than just an overnighting parking lot LOL ;D
Quote from: PP on February 28, 2017, 04:21:21 PM
Ya gotta love that 'Wide Mouthed Orange Juice Jar' from Walmart. I knew they were better than just an overnighting parking lot LOL ;D
Just don't try to overnight at the Walmart on Augusta Rd in west Columbia, sc. That Walmart closes at 10pm until 6am because they keep getting robbed. They're pretty close to the infamous Rolling Meadows mobile home park.
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Chris & Beverly, welcome to the forum!
You can be a bus enthusiast and not be a diesel mechanic. Of course, it helps! We've had almost 15 good years of busing, though during the early years we had to get the bus cleaned up mechanically and on a maintenance plan. Not saying the early years weren't expensive - BUT I'm certainly NOT a diesel mechanic. I've bought the manuals (huge stack) & studied them to at least be somewhat conversant with the mechanics. Besides, maybe your specialty is converting the interior, or furniture work, or?
I've found that in our case what's been important is preventative maintenance. I'm almost obsessed with it. When we move to a different city I immediately start searching for a good mechanic. (We have an '83 MC9). Then I get on a maintenance plan with them. Well, I setup a plan that we follow. I put the bus in the shop each year for for regular maintenance. I budget an amount I plan to spend each year, and try to make the bus a little better each year. I have them do an oil change & lube even though it may not need it each year because I want the mechanic to look over the bus. Also they do brake checks, air bags and whatever else is on my list. This does not include the tires, but I have them on a schedule. Steer tires I keep relatively new, then rotate them to the tags when it's time to purchase new steer tires. Next I'll purchase the 4 drive tires. Never let the tires get "old" age-wise even if they still look new. It's not worth it. Batteries 2 x p/year check 'em out., drive the bus once p/month, check fluids, tighten fittings, and so forth.
By following this obsession with preventive maintenance, we've been blessed with many good miles on the road. Heh, and we have ourselves setup with roadside service that can handle a bus - we use good sam. Keep the bus forum contact info with you also. About 10 years ago we were really glad we did when we had an issue which sidelined us on the highway. This is a great group of bus folk who will help you should you have an issue. You know the saying; plan for the worst, expect the best.
If you don't like the idea of hassling with the maintenance, then I would say a bus (or actually even an RV) isn't a great idea. These are just my ideas on how to handle the bus if you aren't a diesel mechanic, they've served us well and I believe they work well, or at least increase your chances of enjoying this crazy hobby.
Finally, enjoy the ride! We certainly have and wouldn't trade it - an amazing number of family memories. ;D In fact, when I mentioned we may be thinking of doing another conversion, our now-adult kids were saddened because they had so many happy memories of the bus. Didn't really expect that.
Kind Regards, Phil
PS - agree with other posts; get a later model engine if possible. It may make it easier to get it worked on if you're across the country and your local mechanic isn't available. Plan for the worst!
Quote from: Zephod on February 19, 2017, 12:18:46 PM
I've had some odd technical advice so don't trust intimate technical advice too much. General conversions yes - most people here that claim to have converted a bus have at least had a friend that converted one.
I don't quite agree with this. Good group of guys here. I know a good handful of them personally. Some of them are simply walking bus encyclopedias. Also, I don't understand the helpfulness of a post that spends 90% of its content explaining what the owner has done on his conversion when the original poster asked about engines. This poster also converted a school bus. Nothing against skoolies, but they are completely different beasts than a hwy over the road private coach. So, in terms of engines and mechanics there isn't much similarity so take that with a grain of salt.
If you guys aren't mechanically inclined and don't want to mess around doing your own engine troubleshooting, seriously consider a newer engined coach with a 4 stroke. We have personally owned and converted two coaches one with a 6v92 turbo two stroke and our current coach an 8v92 turbo two stroke. As great as they are, they are a pain in the hiney to mess with....I won't sugar coat it. I drove 12,000 miles in 4 months last year and I only wish I could tell you that they were 12,000 trouble free miles lol.
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I've been reading all the posts downgrading the old two strokes and opting for a computer controlled four stroke and do not agree at all. What isn't mentioned is the enormous prices parts cost to repair a four stroke, while the two strokes will be around for forever on a worldwide basis. I have had great success with aftermarket parts for the 2 stroke Detroits and they are an excellent engine. I just made a 1600 mile trip to California and got 10 mpg. This is with a 350 HP 6V92TA.
--Geoff
^ i agree with this, I sincerely enjoy my two stroke. My 6v92 seemed underpowered but it never gave me a single problem in 6 years of nationwide travel and full timing. I am definitely not anti two stroke. My 8v92 turbo is quick stuff set at 500 hp and I can beat most any truck up the mountains, my only concern and qualifier was the fact that the original poster said they have no mechanical ability. If that's the case and they don't have much of a desire to wrench, they might be better off with a newer motor. As we've traveled Fulltime for seven years I have honestly and truly had a difficult time finding peeps to work on our engine. I have been all over the country and I cross my fingers I don't have an engine issue (that I can't fix myself) far from a known two stroke mechanic. The guys at truck repair facilities just honestly have no clue. Again, I love my 8v92. It works. And it works well. I'll probably always have it, but if I were you, I would seriously consider a newer 4 stroke that at least most truck repair places could wrench on.
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Quote from: Scott & Heather on March 02, 2017, 07:33:25 AM
^ i agree with this, I sincerely enjoy my two stroke. My 6v92 seemed underpowered but it never gave me a single problem in 6 years of nationwide travel and full timing. I am definitely not anti two stroke. My 8v92 turbo is quick stuff set at 500 hp and I can beat most any truck up the mountains, my only concern and qualifier was the fact that the original poster said they have no mechanical ability. If that's the case and they don't have much of a desire to wrench, they might be better off with a newer motor. As we've traveled Fulltime for seven years I have honestly and truly had a difficult time finding peeps to work on our engine. I have been all over the country and I cross my fingers I don't have an engine issue (that I can't fix myself) far from a known two stroke mechanic. The guys at truck repair facilities just honestly have no clue. Again, I love my 8v92. It works. And it works well. I'll probably always have it, but if I were you, I would seriously consider a newer 4 stroke that at least most truck repair places could wrench on.
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The new generation of "techs" are lost without a computer plug in. I don't have to worry about working on 2-strokes, I am one of few mechanics left that know them inside out since I used to work for Detroit Diesel before the DDECs came out. Don't ask me a DDEC problem, I don't even have a program for them. However, I do have $5,000 wrapped up in a Nexis IQ reader for 2004 and newer trucks and buses. I am mobile and can pull my work truck with my bus conversion, but it cuts my fuel mileage to 5-6 mpg.
--Geoff
General Diesel Service
Prescott, AZ
QuoteAs we've traveled Fulltime for seven years I have honestly and truly had a difficult time finding peeps to work on our engine. I have been all over the country and I cross my fingers I don't have an engine issue (that I can't fix myself) far from a known two stroke mechanic. The guys at truck repair facilities just honestly have no clue.
My gut instinct echos the same about the reality of obtaining qualified 2 stroke service near a place when needing unplanned service. And this is today.
The condition only degrades as time and bus roll forward. Committing to a bus conversion project necessitates a long term horizon, ten years hardly unrealistic. If you honestly ask the question, "How many of today's "old time" 2 stroke mechanics will still be working?". My understanding is 2 stroke engine repair is no longer taught in votech, so add a decade of trained truck motor mechanics not able to work on them.
Without getting into the pros and cons of all the different possible engines, one approach I first used with my 1970 Mercedes is to have the full set of factory service and repair manuals, plus whatever other information that could be useful to a technician, kept in the vehicle at all times. This way, if Something Bad happened where there was a tech unfamiliar with my car, he would at least have access to information not available otherwise. Similarly, with my bus I have a Pro-Link scanner for DDEC II and III, plus the 6V92 parts manuals and DDEC troubleshooting manual, and (when I can print them off the Wanderlodge website) the 6V92 service manual. This may be the difference between a truck tech being able to get me on the road again, compared to being completely stuck somewhere because nobody knows what's needed. Besides, it's fun to see exactly what the engine's up to when driving (yes, I know busnuts have strange ways to get their jollies).
As the scouts say, Be Prepared.
John
Two strokes are good engines they are just not as efficient as the modern engines,the military branches are even replacing all the old Detroits,the 92 series Detroit have severed me well over the years I could always depend on it getting me home.They are not cheap nowadays to rebuild it cost about the same for a 6v92 as it does for a series 60
Geoff has a point too that should be considered. My mechanical 6v92 was so simple. Air plus fuel and bang bang. My DDEC II 8v92 is different for sure. I love it on one hand because the throttle is electronic. No cables to mess with and smooth easy pedal action throughout the throttle input range. I love that the engine has a good check and balance safety system for low oil or low coolant or overheat and shuts down accordingly. I love that I can hook a prolink to it and read all kinds of amazing data from RPM to trans temp to boost psi. I love that I can customize how much fuel gets pushed and at what rpm. I can control the pulse width tables for the injectors and control the idle rpm and delete the top end governor. I love that I can see on a screen exactly what's going on in the important areas of my engine. Ken Arnold has taught me a ton, but I still have much more to learn. I'm getting there and some day someone will ask me for help with their DDEC II engine. But on the other hand, I've had some horror stories of sitting in the desert of New Mexico with a coach that died for no reason other than a relay pooped out and it took four days to find it. That kind of electronic gremlin stuff can drive you mad. But after four days of coaching from the guys here and Ken Arnold over the phone, and utilizing the 500 page DDEC II manual I have a much much MUCH better understanding of DDEC II, how it works, and how to troubleshoot it. I'm 34 years old so I have plenty of years to continue to learn this...every new bit of knowledge decreases my two stroke anxiety a little more and if you're that type to get down and dirty and figure this stuff out and troubleshoot, then a two stroke is fun....and a DDEC two stroke is just plain euphoria.
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Keeping a 2 stroke cool is a major under taking they are the hardest to cool of any engine ever made,I see people with lawn sprinklers,misters and all kind of rigs trying to cool it.
I have a Eagle here now that was running hot with a 8v92, a radiator was made and sent from Atlas in Texas 38"tall x 46"wide 9 cores $2500 bucks and the fan is another 600 bucks.
This was the size radiator all the calculations said use for the heat rejection on a 475 hp 8v92 by the time I am through with fab work, moving batteries this will be a 5000.00 job,a 60 series would use 1/2 that size of a radiator
Quote from: luvrbus on March 02, 2017, 02:32:44 PM
Keeping a 2 stroke cool is a major under taking they are the hardest to cool of any engine ever made,I see people with lawn sprinklers,misters and all kind of rigs trying to cool it.
I have a Eagle here now that was running hot with a 8v92, a radiator was made and sent from Atlas in Texas 38"tall x 46"wide 9 cores $2500 bucks and the fan is another 600 bucks.
This was the size radiator all the calculations said use for the heat rejection on a 475 hp 8v92 by the time I am through with fab work, moving batteries this will be a 5000.00 job,a 60 series would use 1/2 that size of a radiator
So..what you are saying is that the 92 series in that coach was not stock...otherwise it would probably never overheated :)
And refitting a proper radiator (not stock) in a 1956 F1 Ford would take the same amount of $$ in mods if you were pulling the old flatty and sticking in a 406 tri-power C6 :) it's all relative :)
The 8v92 have always been a problem to cool even with the factory set up from Eagle,this one going to have a larger radiator than the stock 38 x41 with a larger dia fan with the 12 blade variable pitch
Quote, and utilizing the 500 page DDEC II manual I have a much much MUCH better understanding of DDEC II, how it works, and how to troubleshoot it. I'm 34 years old so I have plenty of years to continue to learn this...every new bit of knowledge decreases my two stroke anxiety a little more and if you're that type to get down and dirty and figure this stuff out and troubleshoot, then a two stroke is fun....and a DDEC two stroke is just plain euphoria.
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A set of dash gauges will give you all the information you need. It is not fun having your bus towed into a back-woods shop when it quits running and the mechanics look at you as though you are a geek when you start waving your 500 page DDEC manual around.
--Geoff
I love my Cat 3406 e but it is to fast ... I have to use cruise control just to slow it down and thats at 44,000 lbs including my truck and trailer
dave
I have a 3406B in my truck conversion-and can say it is the most reliable engine ever made (had trucks with 8V-92TA, 6V-92TA, bus with 8V-71). Cat still makes the 3406C mechanical for third world countries that don't want electronics. Good Luck, TomC