Biting the bullet and going to Transynd on my 740.
Questions -
How many gallons for the change? I'm assuming 10.
How many miles before I need to do my second change of fluid?
Thanks guys!
-Sean
What do you have in it now? My question is how do you change the fluid trapped in the torque converter and the cooler/filter? I've heard on some transmissions you need to do three complete changes to get the fluid in those two traps, if you can't drain them separately... I guess the fluids are all compatible, but running whatever you choose as pure as possible would be the ideal, I would think.
Brian
Quote from: bevans6 on December 29, 2016, 05:51:45 AM
What do you have in it now? My question is how do you change the fluid trapped in the torque converter and the cooler/filter? I've heard on some transmissions you need to do three complete changes to get the fluid in those two traps, if you can't drain them separately... I guess the fluids are all compatible, but running whatever you choose as pure as possible would be the ideal, I would think.
Brian
Brian - Dexron is what's in it now. Just talking to the mechanic and he said the same thing about the torque converter. He wasn't sure what the process was for the change. (If there is a drain on the converter or if we need to run it a few hundred miles and drop it again)
Seemed to be more work than it was worth. Was totally ready to pony up the $$$ but just don't have the time at this point. Ill probably do it myself at some point in the future.
So now its back to Dexron. Any reccomends on II or III or IV?
I'd assume the latest (IV) but want to make sure before I go messing with anything.
Also - anyone know if I'll need 10 gallons for the change?
Thanks.
-Sean
Don't use the Dexron IV synthetics are a waste of money in a 740,sometimes depending on the clutch pack material used it causes more harm than good just use 10/30 or 15/40 engine oil the 740 will love it
Quote from: luvrbus on December 29, 2016, 06:19:02 AM
Don't use the Dexron IV synthetics are a waste of money in a 740,sometimes depending on the clutch pack material used it causes more harm than good just use 10/30 or 15/40 engine oil the 740 will love it
Awesome.
Thanks Cliff.
That's the perfectly fantastic answer I was looking for.
-Sean
Well all's done. The tranny only dropped 5 gallons and only took 5 gallons.
I'm sure we are missing something somewhere but its what it is for now.
Ill learn a thing or two from this and add it to the list of things already growing.
Thanks all for the help.
-Sean
What's the depth of the pan a 6 and 7 inch pan holds 33 qts the 8 inch takes 38 qts
Quote from: luvrbus on December 29, 2016, 06:19:02 AM
Don't use the Dexron IV synthetics are a waste of money in a 740,sometimes depending on the clutch pack material used it causes more harm than good just use 10/30 or 15/40 engine oil the 740 will love it
Really???
Motor oil?
(not sarcasm, wanting to k now)
Quote from: HudsonMarine on December 29, 2016, 02:02:31 PM
Really???
Motor oil?
(not sarcasm, wanting to k now)
C rated engine oil has been approved for use in the older Allison since the beginning, the 8000 and 9000 series off road Allison 15/40 was the only approved oil.A lot of people here on the board use engine oil in the 500,600 and 700 series Allison
Back in the 60's when I was in the army reserves we had GMC deuce and a half's with the hydromatic transmissions they used engine oil so you didn't have the have two different oils available in the field. When the government sent them to surplus people would buy them and change the engine oil to automatics trans fluid. Guess what they burned up the trans and now you had a piece of 2&1/2 ton junk that wouldn't move. Heard many stories of this happening.
Yup I switched all our older buses over to 15/40 back when we were running 740's and they loved it!
I was skeptical of doing it at first but I spoke to a guy who made his living building them.
And his response was "Yeah, we use it in heavy duty/hard use applications all the time."
I asked what he meant by heavy duty/hard use and he said "OH you know garbage trucks, fire trucks, dump trucks stuff like that."
I asked what about buses? He said "Hmm don't guess we ever put any in buses, but should work fine."
I laughed and told him "You haven't paid much attention to hired bus drivers have you?"
He said "I guess not what do you mean?"
I told him "hired drivers have 2 modes flat on the floor on the throttle or flat on the floor on the brakes!"
He laughed and said "OH so their just like garbage, fire, & dump truck drivers then!"
SO I changed our buses w/740's in them over to 15/40 an they loved it shifted lots better!
;D BK ;D
OK then, is there a specific brand/type I should be looking for?
And is there any harm in switching from the Dextron that is in it now to the motor oil?
I'm running Delvac 1300 super in the engine, that has several "C" ratings listed on the label.
I too switched from Dexron to 15W40 "C" rated motor oil in my HT740. Seems to shift a little smoother, and run a little cooler. I still have to change it a second time to get rid of more Dexron. I also added a second filter on the line between the converter and the oil cooler on the side of the engine.
JC
Any good C rated 15/40 will work just don't use S rated for gasoline engines Delo 400, Mobil 1300, Shell Rotella and so on,the Dexron 11 is getting hard to find were I live
Quote from: luvrbus on December 30, 2016, 07:00:42 AM
Any good C rated 15/40 will work just don't use S rated for gasoline engines Delo 400, Mobil 1300, Shell Rotella and so on,the Dexron 11 is getting hard to find were I live
Just to clarify sir, the oils you listed are OK or, they are NOT ok?
C rated 15/40 for diesel engines are good the S rated 15/40 for gasoline not so good
Quote from: luvrbus on December 30, 2016, 08:00:14 AM
C rated 15/40 for diesel engines are good the S rated 15/40 for gasoline not so good
I assume that you think the synthetic 15-40 oils (C-rated) are okay, but not worth the extra expense? The 740's like to run hot, and the thermal breakdown temperatures are a little higher for the synthetics, would the difference be worth it (performance wise) for those of us that want the very best for our 740's?
Synthetic oils are a waste of money in a 740 it is not going to extend the life of a 740 IMO,some say it will drop the temperature by 5* but I never saw it, only benefit is less oil changes on the newer World Transmissions
Basically Dexron III is the standard duty fluid, and Type C-4 fluid is the heavy duty fluid but some Dexron III carries the Type C-4 rating as well. C-4 is usually a heavy duty diesel engine oil, and it has the C-4 approval on the label. Dexron III is rated for cold start operation down to -22F. OW-20 Type C-4 engine oil is rated to -31F for Arctic use. 15W40 engine oil is rated to 5F, if colder than that on a cold start pre-heat is required before range operations (basically that means putting it in gear and driving it). Preheat is either an external heater or running the engine at idle with the transmission in N for 20 minutes before putting it in a drive range.
So Dexron III is your standard duty wide temperature range do-all for everybody fluid, while Type C-4 is your heavy duty fluid with a smallish issue with pre-heat if you drive in cold temps every day. I am going to look for Dexron III Type C-4 for my transmission, if and when I get that far. It's a pretty red colour so that should add to the excitement of finding leaks.
Brian
I don't recall Allison ever using Dexron lll in the older 700,600 or 500 series it was always ll lot of options for fluid on the older Allisons and Dexron is 10w for colder climates
Quote from: luvrbus on December 30, 2016, 01:58:40 PM
I don't recall Allison ever using Dexron lll in the older 700,600 or 500 series it was always ll lot of options for fluid on the older Allisons and Dexron is 10w for colder climates
Is Dexron III backwards-compatible with II? Did III exist when these transmissions were being made?
John
Quote from: Iceni John on December 30, 2016, 02:14:46 PM
Is Dexron III backwards-compatible with II? Did III exist when these transmissions were being made?
John
The lll is supposed to be backwards compatible, the 740 was being phased out when the Dexron lll hit the self's in 93 or 94 ,the lll for awhile you could get the red or green I still have a couple of qts of the green.There so many options for approved fluids on the 740 it makes your head spin I used the CAT TO oil in mine for years
I picked up some Dextron III from Oreily's yesterday, and it has the C-4 rating on the label.
I am still considering the 15w40 switch though as it would make sense the heavier viscosity would increase performance on several levels.
I have no concern about low temperature issues as I plan to never be in cold climate. Even if that happened, just warm the thing up before driving it.
Also wondered about tractor hydraulic fluid designed for hydrostatic transmissions and wet brake/clutch applications?
Seems reading through the oodles of posts on this subject, there's MANY diferent opinions out there.
I can testify to a Chevrolet transmission that ran on orange soda once, long enough to go 30 miles home from a party (don't laugh, it was too dang cold to walk).
15W-40 makes a lot of sense in Allison transmissions. Considering I run 15W-40 in the generator, for power steering, if I change to 15W-40 in the transmission, then straight 40 would only be for the engine. If you have a 4 stroke engine, then you could have all the same oil for all. Good Luck, TomC
For people in colder areas, I wonder if 5-40 oil would be a good compromise. If 15-40 is okay down to 5*, then 5-40 should be okay below zero F., but only if Cliff approves.
Quote from: DoubleEagle on December 31, 2016, 07:18:46 AM
For people in colder areas, I wonder if 5-40 oil would be a good compromise. If 15-40 is okay down to 5*, then 5-40 should be okay below zero F., but only if Cliff approves.
I am not approving nothing it's all personal preference on what people use but I do think synthetics are a waste of money in the older Allisons
I used this in my hd4060 and got if for $99 a 5 gal . pail so if you guys buy it in US $ that would only be $65 a pail + tax
http://lubricants.petro-canada.ca/resource/download.aspx?type=TechData&iproduct=996&language=en (http://lubricants.petro-canada.ca/resource/download.aspx?type=TechData&iproduct=996&language=en)
now I will have to change it again to try and get all the dex. 3 out
dave
Quote from: sledhead on December 31, 2016, 07:28:28 AM
I used this in my hd4060 and got if for $99 a 5 gal . pail so if you guys buy it in US $ that would only be $65 a pail + tax
http://lubricants.petro-canada.ca/resource/download.aspx?type=TechData&iproduct=996&language=en (http://lubricants.petro-canada.ca/resource/download.aspx?type=TechData&iproduct=996&language=en)
now I will have to change it again to try and get all the dex. 3 out
dave
Dave, I cannot find where that fluid meets the 295 specs or approved for your transmission you have more data than you posted you should be fine though the early World Transmissions used ATF Dexron lll
you are right they make it very hard to find but here it is
http://lubricants.petro-canada.com/documents/HD_Synthetic_Blend_ATF_OEM-E.pdf (http://lubricants.petro-canada.com/documents/HD_Synthetic_Blend_ATF_OEM-E.pdf)
dave
Quote from: DoubleEagle on December 31, 2016, 07:18:46 AMFor people in colder areas, I wonder if 5-40 oil would be a good compromise. If 15-40 is okay down to 5*, then 5-40 should be okay below zero F., but only if Cliff approves.
Are there non-synthetic 5W-40 oils? If I were going to use a synthetic transmission oil, I guess I'd just go ahead and use TransSynd. There was a bit of discussion earlier in this thread, seems to me that regular 15W-40 petroleum multigrade C-rated oil is about as good as you can get, esp. for the money (unless your transmission requires synthetic, of course).
Dave get a hold of Scott, Dan, or Paul. Scott was telling me that Dan showed them a dealer in his area that sells Transynd for $35 gallon!
;D BK ;D
WW Williams had the Transynd on sale in Dec for $29.99 a gal,I never pay over $35.00 a gal through the Co-Op here it's still over priced to me but coming down in price it seems,the more that gets approved the prices drop as of now there are only 9 brands on the approved list for the World Transmissions