Hey Folks....looking for some advice. Our 2 month new to us 102d/d4000 was flooded last night/this AM. I have not been able to get to it yet and I have many other things to deal with but I would like to know what and how quickly things should be done to reduce failure. I suspect water level was 6-8" above rear tires but again not sure. Temps are falling fast....below 30 by 5 PM. TIA for any insight you all may have!!
Jon
Jon, sorry to hear..
First would be to shut off and disconnect your batteries.
I would get a case of WD40. and quickly remove your engine ECU which is located on the curb side. I would also find the B500 ECU and remove/check the water level.
Your brake ABS ECU will also need to be found and checked. Next is all of your electrical panals.
All the luggage bays will need to have the inspection covers removed to let out water and debris..
Your interior A/C fans/motors will need to be addressed.
It's a lot of work... Sorry to hear.
I would think to take some photos of vehicle and specific measures of water level at the present location.
What is the future location weather, more water? if so a tow somehow I suppose should be in the cards.
Sorry to hear, this is terrible
Floyd
Water may have got into the differential through the vent, so you'll need to address that before moving the bus at all. Do transmissions also have vents? Was the PS reservoir vent under water? If so, the PS/hydraulic fluid will need to be completely drained and replaced. (I had some old Dexron that rain got into, and it became completely milky instead of the water settling at the bottom - I was surprised it emulsified so easily.) You should also pump fresh grease through every Zerk until fresh oozes out.
John
WOW Jon sorry to hear about this!
Did this happen on the parking pad you had me park it on when I delivered it to you?
If so that was a lot of water in your area and sounds like your shop might have gotten water in it too?
Anyway first thing to do when the water is low enough to get around the coach is to check the engine oil, trans fld, hubs (steer & tags) to see if any off them got flooded enough to take on water.
Also check the air breather housing and filter before firing it up.
If any off these have water on inspection, it needs addressed ASAP before starting!
Then I'd find all the control modules as Mark mentioned. And take them out and place inside somewhere with warm dry air blowing on them. After letting them air dry a few days it should be OK to re-install them. I'd use dielectric grease on all connections.
After doing all that you should be able to fire it up, run it up on some ramps and check the differential for water too. Again if water is found need to drain and refill also. (plus axles will need to come out and put back in to drain water from the hubs)
Hope this is all negative and that the water didn't get time to soak in and cause major issues an a bunch of work for you.
Call if you need any specific tips on any of this!
;D BK ;D
So sorry to hear about this Jon, I'm sure you'll get solid advice from the board on this just like BK said check everything for water before firing anything up. Hope your home and business is ok also. Good luck Jason
Hey Folks...thanks so much for all the input! I am sorry to report that it is bad. Water level to top of idler pulley on back of DD60. Mud in each bay, batteries covered in mud, red light still on DC regulator though. I am not able to open all doors due to washed up firewood. I will begin draining fluids ASAP and hunt down the ECM's. Unfortunately this event has also wiped out my shop which houses my lively hood so I will be torn as to how to spend my time. Thanks again for the input....I really would like to salvage this bus!
Yikes. Please tell
Me insurance will take care of this?
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Comprehensive insurance covers flooding. I would almost guarantee a bus flooded that bad would be an instant total by the insurance company. A car with water that high would generally be totaled. Flooded cars are usually vehicles nobody wants due to all the issues that pop up over time.
Jon:If you can find it,CRC makes an item called ELECTRICLEAN which works much better at cleaning electrical parts .We used to have a huge manufacturing plant here that was bad to flood .My customer would bay this stuff by the gallons claimed he never last an item to water contamination after using this stuff.Should be available at Industrial supply houses and at better electrical supply houses.. Good Stuff!!!
http://c-global.com/ProductPages/Chemicals/chemicals.htm (http://c-global.com/ProductPages/Chemicals/chemicals.htm)
I have removed nearly 4 gallons of water from the oil pan....is it over? Should I look for the nearest cliff, deep lake, or arsonist?
Thanks for the thoughts!
Jon
No Jon it ain't the end of the world!
It IS for sure that you need to drain and refill ALL fluids because if that much water got in the oil pan then it got in other places too!
It can be saved and the good thing about it is #1 it happened at home. #2 you knew about it and didn't start and drive it for unknown miles before discovering it.
Water alone in the oil will not kill it. It doesn't help it, but not as bad as antifreeze. again the good part is you haven't run it. (at least not long if you have! Antifreeze in the oil will ruin the bearings like instantly so atleast it's not a blown gasket or cracked head/block that caused the water in the engine.)
:o BK :-\ :-\
Thanks Bryce....so what I drained ahead of the oil was a fluid the color of ATF with the viscosity of water. No, it has not been turned over since event. So are you saying drain tranny, refill tranny and engine and fire up???
I have removed all ECM's and dried out and washed out and sprayed with lectric clean all other electrical's.
Thanks for the help!
Yes John after you change the oil & trans fld you should be able to fire her up. But before doing so you need to do a couple more little preventive steps.
Like checking power steering fld to see if it got compromised. (if so that will be an easy fix just remove the lines from the reservoir drain put the lines back on, and refill.
Check the fuel tank to see if any water got in there. (local gas station should be able to help you out here. They have stuff you put on the stick they check the fuel level with that shows it water is present. See if they will loan you a little bit of it and smear it on a stick or hose and dip your tank to be sure there is no water in it.
Also after you get it running you need to get it up on blocks and drain the differential and pull both axles out of the drive to hubs. Put new gaskets on and reseal put back together and add about a quart of grease to each hub before driving it anywhere.
Also need to pull the caps on the steer and tag axle hubs and see if there is any water in them too. If so pull the covers off drain reseal put back on and fill to the full line! (do not over fill all the way to the bottom of the hole in the center or it will sling oil and drive you nuts until it gets back to the proper level!)
After all that your ready to take her out and shake her down!
;D BK ;D
i would jumper the fuel galleys and pump diesel through...a lot.... then i would drop the pan and get me a parts/solvent spray and do some look seeing before i started that motor....
::) ;D ::)
Oil filled hubs on his bus?
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Quote from: Scott & Heather on January 01, 2017, 05:04:47 AM
Oil filled hubs on his bus?
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one of the often over looked destroyers...differentials that were under water...oil floats.
i can't count how many diffs were ruined by people launching boats...seeps in and no one checks... :(
https://vimeo.com/197712286
The link above, if it works, shows the first start attempt after draining all fluids and cleaning/drying ecm's. In the video you can hear the coolant pump (I believe) is stuck on.
The stop engine light is providing 2 codes, 43: Coolant level Low, and 54:Vehicle Speed Sensor Fault. I do not believe 43 actually exists but rather has something to do with the pump stuck on.
The start attempt fails in less than 20 seconds, as the motor tries to turn over but does not and from the cockpit the vehicle begins to shake. I have no experience with diesel so my question is does this appear to be simply not enough power to turn motor or something more? Could the coolant pump be stealing enough juice to starve the starter? I have 24V & 12V at equalizer but have yet to check elsewhere.
Eagle, thanks for the suggestion...however what will this do and what will I learn?
Thanks for any additional input...and yes these are oil filled hubs.
You should have about 12.8 to 13.6 and 24.8 to 27.6 roughly or your batteries are close to or dead.
Looks like not enough starting power to overcome compression, or there is still some uncompressible water in the way.
Quote from: eagle19952 on January 01, 2017, 12:25:59 PM
one of the often over looked destroyers...differentials that were under water...oil floats.
i can't count how many diffs were ruined by people launching boats...seeps in and no one checks... :(
Umm I think I already covered that!
TWICE! (in both of my earlier posts!)
Quote from: B_K on December 27, 2016, 04:55:09 PM
Yes John after you change the oil & trans fld you should be able to fire her up. But before doing so you need to do a couple more little preventive steps.
Like checking power steering fld to see if it got compromised. (if so that will be an easy fix just remove the lines from the reservoir drain put the lines back on, and refill.
Check the fuel tank to see if any water got in there. (local gas station should be able to help you out here. They have stuff you put on the stick they check the fuel level with that shows it water is present. See if they will loan you a little bit of it and smear it on a stick or hose and dip your tank to be sure there is no water in it.
Also after you get it running you need to get it up on blocks and drain the differential and pull both axles out of the drive to hubs. Put new gaskets on and reseal put back together and add about a quart of grease to each hub before driving it anywhere.
Also need to pull the caps on the steer and tag axle hubs and see if there is any water in them too. If so pull the covers off drain reseal put back on and fill to the full line! (do not over fill all the way to the bottom of the hole in the center or it will sling oil and drive you nuts until it gets back to the proper level!)
After all that your ready to take her out and shake her down!
;D BK ;D
Wow that coolant pump is LOUD! I'd unplug the wire to it.
But to me it looks/sounds like the batteries don't have enough juice to turn it over.
Call me anytime Monday afternoon!
;D BK ;D
If you got water in the cylinders, it could bend a rod trying to start. I would turn it over first with a wrench to be sure it isn't locked.
Jack
Quote from: blue_goose on January 02, 2017, 06:47:43 AM
If you got water in the cylinders, it could bend a rod trying to start. I would turn it over first with a wrench to be sure it isn't locked.
Jack
That is the best advice you can have they won't just bend some will break and you need to check the compressor if water got above it.You diffidently don't want to fire the engine without changing the engine oil and the transmission filters and fluid if you get water in the torque converter on the transmission it is going to get expensive
Quote from: B_K on January 01, 2017, 09:39:00 PM
Umm I think I already covered that! TWICE! (in both of my earlier posts!)
YES u did... your point ?
Quote from: JDWood on January 01, 2017, 02:25:19 PM
https://vimeo.com/197712286
The link above, if it works, shows the first start attempt after draining all fluids and cleaning/drying ecm's. In the video you can hear the coolant pump (I believe) is stuck on.
The stop engine light is providing 2 codes, 43: Coolant level Low, and 54:Vehicle Speed Sensor Fault. I do not believe 43 actually exists but rather has something to do with the pump stuck on.
The coolant sensor should be in the expansion tank and there is no reason the coolant pump running should cause the coolant sensor to detect lack of coolant. Have you actually checked the coolant level? The sensor could also be reading bad due to corrosion from the flood waters. I am pretty sure code 43 will not allow the engine to run. My Series 60 has shut down from lack of coolant in expansion tank twice now, and both times there was a good size coolant leak that emptied much of the system.
Brian...I spoke before fully investigating! In fact the purge tank is low...and I do not know why? Last time I checked the view glass I thought I remembered it was good....I do not drive this, just start every week for a bit....had been heating it up inside pretty well last several times running and did not check coolant level since weather got cold...but no telltale lights. So far I've added 6 gallons and its still thirsty. However, I would have thought the pump would shut down once the reserve tank was empty, mine did not.
Recapping, I have drained all fluids, water in oil pan, none in tranny. Once motor is running I will address diff and axles . Water did enter turbo and did reach compressor as well.
Is there a roll over system on the Series 60? Can you get a ratchet on without removing the bumper?
Thanks,
Jon
You have a switch on the rear panel to shut off the pump when the system is full with the pump running when the system is full mine would dump the coolant on the ground till I found a broken bypass hose,my pump is not automatic fwiw
I can't imagine the electrical gremlins he's going to be chasing for years to come. I had one bad relay sideline me for 4 days... I don't wish this on anyone. I am rooting for ya!
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Clifford can you give me a call. I got a new phone for Christmas and when the girl transferred my old phone to my new one she lost more contacts than she saved!
;D BK ;D
Jon on the second thought hold up on what we talked about today until I can talk to Clifford a couple mins.
Might want to go a different route before starting.
PM sent Bryce lol I lost your number since we got new phones
Bless you Jon...Hang in there!
You said the water did reach the turbo and compressor? I am nowhere close to as knowledgable as everyone here, but if it were me, I would dismantle as much as possible from the top of the high water and be looking for mud and any evidence of remaining water. If your coach electrical runs lengthwise through any sort of channel, make sure that's dry as well. Take pics of everything before and after...no wet insulation, etc.
I only mention this because I believe it was either BK or Clifford who mentioned (in a different post) the effect of water where you don't want it.
But keep your chin up. You're smart enough to not have started the engine...so you'll be OK. And you have the best advice in the world on this page, myself not included :)
Thank you all who offered insight and encouragement...it is greatly appreciated! I confirmed today that the engine does have an internal breach, thus the low coolant level and the ATF looking or now confirmed coolant looking, fluid in the oil pan. Water clearly entered the engine and then froze bringing me to today. Just wanted to update and bring thread to a close. Thanks again!
Jon
Man what a bummer that is not going to be a easy or cheap fix for sure ? do you have insurance
Man what a shame, Like luvrbus said hope you had insurance, How did your business fair? Pulling for you. Jason
That SUCKS!
Well time for a plan b!
Not sure what to suggest at this point but we'll come up with a plan.
:o BK :(
There's a reason that insurance companies total out flood vehicles. And there's a reason that we don't ever want to buy those flood vehicles when they show up at auctions. This bus might be a partial loss honestly. Especially if water got places and froze the engine issues may only be just part of the problem. Water freezing expands with tremendous pressure, and obviously other places where it got in and froze could have issues like airlines, electrical plug connections, etc. there are not too many situations that are worse than water flooding a vehicle and then freezing. That stinks. Do let us know what you plan on doing. Maybe I'm just being too pessimistic here. if I am please slap my hand.
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