As posted previously, my MCI 102A3 transmission died, and when I pulled the engine/transmission out I started to think it might be time to replace the engine as well.
Any ideas on where to find a good HT-740 possibly with a solid 6V92 attached?
I'm on the West Coast (SF area) but there's always freight.
As a note - the 6V92 I have works, though it leaks oil from just about everywhere, including the breather hoses. Is this reason enough to replace, or should I have my 6V92 perhaps torn apart and rebuilt?
I would overhaul what you have. This way you'll know it is in good shape. If you get a used one, make sure it is a good one. It would be a waste of time and money to put in something cheap that runs, but lets you down soon after because you didn't know the history. I would look into swapping in a 4 stroke, like a Detroit S50, or Cummins ISL. More work and money, but easier to get fixed later, and half as much heat. None of these options are cheap, but nothing is. Now is your chance to do it right.
JC
Quote from: lostagain on December 12, 2016, 12:13:45 PM... I would look into swapping in a 4 stroke, like a Detroit S50, or Cummins ISL. More work and money, but easier to get fixed later, and half as much heat. None of these options are cheap, but nothing is. Now is your chance to do it right.
JC
And with some good 12 - 14 year old running buses going in the $5 - 8000 range, you're likely to find buying a whole donor bus (esp. if you can find one with front-end accident damage) is *way* cheaper than trying to find an engine here, and a transmission there, and a wiring harness there, and a ....
Freight and travel would be the killer but a guy in Nova Scotia posted on Face Book with photos has 4 -6v92 with 740 Allison's from MCI 9's he is asking $800.00 ea and that is Canadian money a little over $ 600 ea US dollars.To far for me but I would like to have all 4 at that price
Quote from: luvrbus on December 13, 2016, 06:29:55 AM
Freight and travel would be the killer but a guy in Nova Scotia posted on Face Book with photos has 4 -6v92 with 740 Allison's from MCI 9's he is asking $800.00 ea and that is Canadian money a little over $ 600 ea US dollars.To far for me but I would like to have all 4 at that price
Hey ain't Brian Evans from Nova Scotia?
Maybe Clifford and Dave could make it worth Brian's time to take a winter vacation and load up a trailer and head south for some heat and fuel $
;D BK ;D
Quote from: B_K on December 13, 2016, 12:45:41 PMHey ain't Brian Evans from Nova Scotia? ...
Next door -- close enough!
Quote from: lostagain on December 12, 2016, 12:13:45 PM
I would look into swapping in a 4 stroke, like a Detroit S50, or Cummins ISL.
Interesting. Never had problems with heat on the 6V92, but a 4 stroke sounds like a nice, cleaner option. Any ideas on what is involved with that kind of conversion?
Quote from: luvrbus on December 13, 2016, 06:29:55 AM
..a guy in Nova Scotia posted on Face Book with photos has 4 -6v92 with 740 Allison's from MCI 9's he is asking $800.00
Can I get a pointer to the posting?
You wanted to get some of these as well, where are you located?
Quote from: B_K on December 13, 2016, 12:45:41 PM
Hey ain't Brian Evans from Nova Scotia?
Maybe Clifford and Dave could make it worth Brian's time to take a winter vacation and load up a trailer and head south for some heat and fuel $
I would certainly be happy to give my freight money to a bus driver rather than a freight company. :)
Daveola, swapping in a 4 stroke will require you to fabricate new motor mounts, new intake and exhaust piping, new coolant piping to the radiator, maybe new charge air cooler and plumbing, etc, etc. It could get really expensive fast if you have to pay a diesel shop to do it for you. But doing it yourself would be a worth while project.
JC
An 8v71 will get you home...Paul Lowery has all his stuff for sale for $3800.00 if IRC...includes a HT740... rent a Uhaul and go get it...
Quote from: eagle19952 on December 13, 2016, 05:30:07 PM
An 8v71 will get you home...Paul Lowery has all his stuff for sale for $3800.00 if IRC...includes a HT740... rent a Uhaul and go get it...
Eagle lots of stuff will need done to swap that Eagle combo into an MCI but it's doable!
Of course there is the 740 sitting about 3 miles from me that could be had for about the same $ and driven back to where Dave current bus is.
;D BK ;D
Quote from: B_K on December 13, 2016, 09:28:06 PM
Of course there is the 740 sitting about 3 miles from me that could be had for about the same $ and driven back to where Dave current bus is.
Listening...
But I would be interested in an engine as well, probably not one that needs lots of fabrication, because I don't have time for another project right now.
Quote from: B_K on December 13, 2016, 09:28:06 PM
Eagle lots of stuff will need done to swap that Eagle combo into an MCI but it's doable
You don't even want to go there to much work for less power
Quote from: daveola on December 13, 2016, 11:03:12 PM
Listening...
But I would be interested in an engine as well, probably not one that needs lots of fabrication, because I don't have time for another project right now.
Davev I posted about it somewhere before when you first had your breakdown or sometime near then.
It belongs to Amish friend of mine and has a rebuilt 8V71 in it I'd bet he'd sell the whole bus for $3800 and you could drive it out to CA swap engine/trans out and keep yer 6B92 to get it rebuilt.
ALL the parts necessary for the swap are all ready there as it's MCI to MCI swap basically slide one out slide the other in. (exhaust pipes would have to be changed & probably the muffler, but they will be on the donor bus)
Best part is you can buy it drive it out there and park right next to your current one strip what you need and have the donor bus as a storage unit, have it hauled off for scrap, or donate it to where ever your parking to do this swap for them to sell for scrap. Jonathan won't care what happens to it once it leaves his property. (an if anyone ever came back to him saying "Look we have your 1978 MCI Bus here that's been abandoned at such and such location" He'll laugh at them and tell them
"I'm Amish, have been my whole life and how an where would I get a bus like that?")
Quote from: B_K on December 14, 2016, 08:26:00 AM
It belongs to Amish friend of mine and has a rebuilt 8V71 in it I'd bet he'd sell the whole bus for $3800 and you could drive it out to CA swap engine/trans out and keep yer 6B92 to get it rebuilt.
Interesting idea - how recently was it rebuilt and by whom?
Two problems I see are:
1) We'd have to get rid of the old bus somehow - I don't think abandoning it would be a great idea... :)
2) The 8V71 is much harder to get parts for, no? Is it a turbo?
Quote from: daveola on December 14, 2016, 11:01:51 AM
Interesting idea - how recently was it rebuilt and by whom?
Two problems I see are:
1) We'd have to get rid of the old bus somehow - I don't think abandoning it would be a great idea... :)
2) The 8V71 is much harder to get parts for, no? Is it a turbo?
OK First off it was rebuilt by the Amish man and his son and sons in-laws.
They were mentored by a shop owner in CO that had plenty of DD knowledge, but not the time or space inside the shop to do it, do to the large volume of work from his regular commercial customers.
So he agreed to "help" them do it, if they would do most of the labor intensive stuff themselves.
They towed it to the shop and parked them along side the shop, and he showed them step by step what to do, loaning them the tools and overseeing or even doing the critical parts himself.
1) I did not say to abandon it, I suggested "donating "it.
2) Not really. and NO.
I wouldn't just replace the 6V92 permanently with the 8V71 unless it were turbo'd. But this would give you an option to get your bus up and mobile quicker and have your 6V92 to rebuilt and put back in when time & $ allowed.
;D BK ;D
Quote from: B_K on December 14, 2016, 02:58:20 PM
1) I did not say to abandon it, I suggested "donating "it.
*laugh*
I'm not sure who would consider a bus minus an engine to be a donation, though possibly Ted up in Williams, CA. I suppose it would be nice to pull some parts off it myself, but then the hulking mass needs to go somewhere.
Quote from: B_K on December 14, 2016, 02:58:20 PM
I wouldn't just replace the 6V92 permanently with the 8V71
We're doing okay right now timewise - we have a place to stay and would rather find a permanent solution for the bus engine/transmission.
Quote from: daveola on December 14, 2016, 04:14:45 PM
*laugh*
I'm not sure who would consider a bus minus an engine to be a donation, though possibly Ted up in Williams, CA. I suppose it would be nice to pull some parts off it myself, but then the hulking mass needs to go somewhere.
We're doing okay right now timewise - we have a place to stay and would rather find a permanent solution for the bus engine/transmission.
but then the hulking mass needs to go somewhere....scrap, many net a few $1000.00 is there any aluminium ?
Quote from: eagle19952 on December 15, 2016, 12:00:30 PM
but then the hulking mass needs to go somewhere....scrap, many net a few $1000.00 is there any aluminium ?
I always thought that scrapping a bus *cost* money as opposed to making any money... am I wrong on this?
And I actually don't know what model bus this is that we're even talking about - is it an MCI 102 as well?
I believe it's a 1977 (not positive on the yr) MCI 8.
So no it's only 96" wide not 102" wide
;D BK ;D
There is a beautiful fire truck for sale in Lodi, CA with an 8V92/740 and only 138K total miles. And it's on 12R22.5's and aluminum wheels. Asking 8,000 for the whole rig. I think that's a great deal.
Quote from: Boomer on December 16, 2016, 07:04:55 AM
There is a beautiful fire truck for sale in Lodi, CA with an 8V92/740 and only 138K total miles. And it's on 12R22.5's and aluminum wheels. Asking 8,000 for the whole rig. I think that's a great deal.
More info?
Quote from: Boomer on December 16, 2016, 07:04:55 AM
There is a beautiful fire truck for sale in Lodi, CA with an 8V92/740 and only 138K total miles. And it's on 12R22.5's and aluminum wheels. Asking 8,000 for the whole rig. I think that's a great deal.
Mark you know it's major work to retrofit an engine into an MCI from any other source than an MCI.
Dave is not a master mechanic/fabricator to the best of my knowledge so suggesting he do a swap like that is a lit much in my honest opinion.
And I don't mean to single you out Mark as it is a great find and would make a great donor for the right person, just not sure it's in Dave's best interest.
;D BK ;D
Well, I can handle all sorts of fabricating, but I'm not doing the engine work on the bus (nor do I have time right now, I start a new job soon).
I can ask the engine guy - it's at Bay Cities Diesel in Benicia, CA -whom I've heard good things about.
So it's worth getting the info to see if it makes sense to pursue this route. Would be nice to have an 8V92 in the bus. I presume the 8V92 is a turbo?
If you are going to pay someone else to make the engine change it will cost as much as your coach is worth. If you go with a 8V92 you will more than likely never get it to run cool.
Jack
Like Jack said PAYING to have an 8V92 swapped in does not make financial sense!
If I were paying someone to "repower" it I'd seriously look at a 4 stroke.
Whether it be a 50 Series Detroit, Cummins or a CAT! It's gonna cost you to find the proper parts to relocate the turbo, exhaust, Alt. air compressor, power steering pump, and whatever else the fire truck engine is gonna need changed to make it work in the MCI. PLUS your gonna need to find or fab an engine cradle for it.
Clifford can verify or correct me if I am wrong but I believe you even have to change the cams to make that engine work in an MCI!
Just saying I'd still to an MCI to MCI swap that this point if paying someone else the labor to do it!
OH and again Jack is right on trying to keep an 8V92 cool in an MCI too! Many many people have had problems with this!
;D BK ;D
I think the amount to get this done above the engine trans cost, should be discussed seriously.
I'm not sure the figure 10k is in the conversation so I thought it should be a factor, not a big deal, yet 84 hrs x 120.00 runs pretty close to that so if one figures a standard two week job at 1 person, well this is a baseline.
Floyd
$10,000 is on the light side Floyd. We just spent $5400 just getting bearing, brake, and tire work done. drivetrain work isn't cheap.
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Jmho . I was gonna upgrade to a s50 in the PD 4106 .cost wise It was cheaper to buy the Newell,But if you could keep the 8v92 cool she sure would move! My classic 102 Newell sure does move in comparison to my 4106 with the 8v71. I guess that is like comparing apples to oranges lol. wish everyone a very merry Christmas
I think this is one of those issues where you're going to get 10 different, very good answers. You just need to figure out what you're willing to do vs. what you're willing to afford.
Dad ordered our 8V71 with a specific setup (I'm partial to two strokes, personally...got that from dad), but it moves the MC8 very well and very fast (had to talk my way out of a ticket for going 89/70 two years ago up a Sandstone) ...and very cool. So the only possible reminder I am arrogant enough to add within this experienced group is whatever you do, know the power you expect and make sure your set up to get it when you're finished.
And Happy Holidays...Safe Travels :)
Howdy from central Oregon...I have a 1980 MCI 9 that has a GREAT 6v92 and trans 66K on a Detroit factory overhaul...the guy I got the buss from paid $12,300 for it (have receipts) would like to sell the entire bus (shell) with raised roof.. asking $7000. for it can leave contact info here and Ill get back to you...thanks Doug
Quote from: dj on December 19, 2016, 02:39:42 PM
Howdy from central Oregon...I have a 1980 MCI 9 that has a GREAT 6v92 and trans 66K on a Detroit factory overhaul...the guy I got the buss from paid $12,300 for it (have receipts) would like to sell the entire bus (shell) with raised roof. Can leave contact info here and Ill get back to you...thanks Doug
dj, I just sent you a PM, didn't see your contact info on here.
Still looking.
I know that the cost is going to be >$10k to do this, but now that I have a job it's time to get the bus in great running shape so I don't have to worry about this anymore. As to whether the cost is worth more than the bus - that's a heck of an assumption as to what the bus is worth to me! :)
I've thought about getting a new bus and moving everything over, but I'm also realistically looking at the amount of time that project would take. In other words, an enormous amount - and I don't have much available time right now, and I have a good diesel guy who can work on the bus. So that's where I am at.
Hey no problem...I was just thinking if you bought my bus and yanked the engine and trans would get you on the road a lot faster and you couls part this one out or sell the shell.....just a thought.....the guy I got the bus from paid $12000+ for the motor...anyway good luck with your project...Doug
by the way if you want to get in touch with me 541-591-1781 Doug
I have a lead on a Series 50 with a B400R Allison transmission delivered to Bay Cities Diesel with a whole transit bus attached. You get everything you need when you buy a whole bus, including the wiring harness.
--Geoff
928 771 0045 if interested.
I
Quote from: Geoff on February 13, 2017, 06:24:38 PM
I have a lead on a Series 50 with a B400R Allison transmission delivered to Bay Cities Diesel with a whole transit bus attached. You get everything you need when you buy a whole bus, including the wiring harness.
--Geoff
928 771 0045 if interested.
I
By far that is the best way to make the change.
Jack
Sadly I don't have anyone who can do that work. Bay Diesel has the bus and they'll only switch it for a 6V92, they don't want to have to fab anything at all, they don't have the time or manpower for it.
Dave in my honest opinion if it were me and I was sticking with the 6V92 & wanted reliability, I'd contact American Fleet and have them build and ship you one and be done with it!
http://www.americanfleetinc.com/ (http://www.americanfleetinc.com/)
;D BK ;D
And yes I have bought from them in the past with good results!