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Bus Discussion => Bus Topics ( click here for quick start! ) => Topic started by: luvrbus on November 24, 2016, 05:51:34 AM

Title: MCI C-3 Brakes
Post by: luvrbus on November 24, 2016, 05:51:34 AM
Did the C-3 use spring brakes or DD-3 my parts manual just shows the DD-3  for the 1986
Title: Re: MCI C-3 Brakes
Post by: sledhead on November 24, 2016, 06:50:56 AM
my 1990 has DD-3

dave
Title: Re: MCI C-3 Brakes
Post by: luvrbus on November 24, 2016, 07:10:25 AM
Quote from: sledhead on November 24, 2016, 06:50:56 AM
my 1990 has DD-3

dave

Thanks Dave that kinda confirms what I was thinking without seeing the bus someone has converted it over to Maxi spring brakes since he tried a regular spring brake and it is too long.
That is going to be hard chamber for me to find for him unless some Eagle person has one laying around 
Title: Re: MCI C-3 Brakes
Post by: olebusman on November 24, 2016, 10:33:29 AM
 Try Rochester City Lines in minneapolis (507-288-4353). He had some mini max stuff.   olebusman
Title: Re: MCI C-3 Brakes
Post by: luvrbus on November 24, 2016, 10:48:06 AM
Quote from: olebusman on November 24, 2016, 10:33:29 AM
Try Rochester City Lines in minneapolis (507-288-4353). He had some mini max stuff.   olebusman

Thanks a bunch
Title: Re: MCI C-3 Brakes
Post by: Dave5Cs on November 24, 2016, 05:07:33 PM
Clifford if they don't have it try my place its in West Sacramento and they have everything including rebuilding DD3's if you ever need that. Capital Clutch and Brake. All Commercial supplies.
http://www.ccbparts.com/ (http://www.ccbparts.com/)
Dave
Title: Re: MCI C-3 Brakes
Post by: Scott & Heather on November 24, 2016, 09:05:32 PM
Cliff,

was this for me? I'm trying MCI dealer in Dallas Monday morning first thing. My 1992 has spring brakes from what we've seen. Two air ports and they apply the brakes below 40psi. Any other way to tell for sure?
Title: Re: MCI C-3 Brakes
Post by: brmax on November 25, 2016, 03:29:15 AM
Not saying it has been changed but if,
On standard spring brake chambers there is a typical inspection plugged hole on the end. This can be the access to use the tool caging the (high tension spring) many times it can be caged, with the insert and turn clockwise to lok a bit and verifying this, its like a half turn then holding to tighten the cage nut about 3"
I have found many times these springs to be broken and making it difficult to caged during r&r.
When this happens many ops would notice a slow release in a wheel and possible skidding on that one. Not all! notice and a very good inspection point, so if the part to use cage bolt is jacked to the side its history 95%time and caution needs stepped up for removal. Of course the park brake app on that wheel also compromised.
So anyway a photo of chamber always good, to add the hose connector casting is (round for short stroke, square on long stroke) long stroke is really made for a certain brake shoe like q+ I believe one of the terms and could be more.
So if it parking knob pops out on its own at low pressure like 30psi after a low air light and then a noise signal its a typical spring brake system.

Try to have a good weekend there
Floyd
Title: Re: MCI C-3 Brakes
Post by: luvrbus on November 25, 2016, 06:43:03 AM
He only has 2 air lines going to the chambers like springs brakes,the Maxi is not hard to install a new diaphragm and the spring seems to never break in one   
Title: Re: MCI C-3 Brakes
Post by: Scott & Heather on November 25, 2016, 06:46:35 AM
I'm trying to figure out without climbing under there at the moment which I truly have....if I had DD3's and I had all my air dumped (reading 0 psi on gauge) would the coach roll?


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Title: Re: MCI C-3 Brakes
Post by: eagle19952 on November 25, 2016, 08:09:31 AM
would the coach roll?

it could...if the brakes are mal-adjusted or if you only made a soft application, or no application or a combination of the three.

even spring cans will not hold if not properly adjusted.
there are two things always in easy reach of he seat on travel days.
a tire pressure gauge and a 9/16" wrench
Title: Re: MCI C-3 Brakes
Post by: luvrbus on November 25, 2016, 08:15:34 AM
Quote from: Scott & Heather on November 25, 2016, 06:46:35 AM
I'm trying to figure out without climbing under there at the moment which I truly have....if I had DD3's and I had all my air dumped (reading 0 psi on gauge) would the coach roll?


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It shouldn't and a DD-3 will apply when the air pressure is low too,get me a photo






Title: Re: MCI C-3 Brakes
Post by: brmax on November 25, 2016, 09:33:35 AM
My phone is to old to invest in accessories, But you must have one of them there selfie sticks to take group pictures.
I just let the younger ones chatter about who gets to take a pic as they have the hi dollar phones. (I'm happy with my old antique qwerty keyboard Samsung)
I ate to much pie and cannot fit, also

Floyd
Title: Re:
Post by: Dave5Cs on November 25, 2016, 03:32:56 PM
dd3 have 3 hoses going to the can. yes the emergency will apply if air is below 65 lbs.

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Title: Re: MCI C-3 Brakes
Post by: Scott & Heather on November 26, 2016, 10:22:37 PM
I only
Have two lines going to the can. Brakes do not apply when below 65 psi but the parking brake knob pops out around 40 psi or so. Cliff is going to make me climb under there and get all dirty. Just great lol


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Title: Re: MCI C-3 Brakes
Post by: Oonrahnjay on November 27, 2016, 05:43:44 AM
Quote from: Scott & Heather on November 26, 2016, 10:22:37 PM...  the parking brake knob pops out around 40 psi or so. ...

      Does the park/emergency function apply the brakes then??? 
Title: Re: MCI C-3 Brakes
Post by: B_K on November 27, 2016, 10:00:01 AM
Quote from: Scott & Heather on November 26, 2016, 10:22:37 PM
I only
Have two lines going to the can. Brakes do not apply when below 65 psi but the parking brake knob pops out around 40 psi or so. Cliff is going to make me climb under there and get all dirty. Just great lol
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LOL! Well you know the Yoda does make the student learn by DOING!
;D  BK  ;D
Title: Re: MCI C-3 Brakes
Post by: luvrbus on November 27, 2016, 10:11:46 AM
B-K I just want see what he has I cannot find spring brakes on a C but I did find where they could be ordered with the SD-3 which is a Roto Chamber set up
Title: Re: MCI C-3 Brakes
Post by: B_K on November 27, 2016, 10:14:18 AM
Quote from: luvrbus on November 27, 2016, 10:11:46 AM
B-K I just want see what he has I cannot find spring brakes on a C but I did find where they could be ordered with the SD-3 which is a Roto Chamber set up

Ugh, I hate those "Roto-chambers"! I deleted them on my Dina and went 30/30's
And yes you/he needs to know what he has.
;D  BK  ;D
Title: Re: MCI C-3 Brakes
Post by: luvrbus on November 27, 2016, 10:29:22 AM
He is in a shop now they tried a regular spring brake and it was to long
Title: Re: MCI C-3 Brakes
Post by: belfert on November 27, 2016, 06:38:37 PM
Quote from: B_K on November 27, 2016, 10:14:18 AM
Ugh, I hate those "Roto-chambers"! I deleted them on my Dina and went 30/30's
And yes you/he needs to know what he has.

I switched all the rotochambers on my Dina for regular chambers.  Regular chambers are about 1/10th the cost.  The spring brakes are 36/36 or 36/30 or something like that.  Not the normal 30/30 is all I remember.
Title: Re: MCI C-3 Brakes
Post by: Dave5Cs on November 27, 2016, 07:00:19 PM
I know can't put spring brakes on 5, 7 ,8 MCI because there is not enough room maybe on the C's too eh? He does not have DD3's if he only  has two hoses to can. What about Maxi's?
Dave
Title: Re: MCI C-3 Brakes
Post by: B_K on November 28, 2016, 06:16:52 AM
Quote from: belfert on November 27, 2016, 06:38:37 PM
I switched all the rotochambers on my Dina for regular chambers.  Regular chambers are about 1/10th the cost.  The spring brakes are 36/36 or 36/30 or something like that.  Not the normal 30/30 is all I remember.

Brian I think your right now that you mention it I think it was 36/36's I used not 30/30's as I said before!
;D  BK  ;D
Title: Re: MCI C-3 Brakes
Post by: Scott & Heather on November 28, 2016, 07:33:17 AM
So the bus is going into the shop today I called MCI to see if they had a DD3 brake chamber they want $1000 for it. So I'm wondering what my options are? That seems ridiculous. I would love to switch over to spring brakes and I know there's going to be some plumbing involved, but can I even find a spring brake that'll fit?


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Title: Re: MCI C-3 Brakes
Post by: luvrbus on November 28, 2016, 07:46:41 AM
You may can make a spring work if you go with that you can rotate I do not know for sure how much space you have under there for clearance get me photo of the chamber that is on the bus now.You may try Jefferson in OKC and talk to ED the Eagle used the MAXI chambers in the 90's and he may have a set and they will will fit in place of a DD-3.There is not much involved in the way of plumbing going from a DD-3 to the spring brakes     
Title: Re: MCI C-3 Brakes
Post by: Scott & Heather on November 28, 2016, 08:34:39 AM
OK so we have confirmed that I have DD three breaks. Nothing is wrong with the chambers. The other shop was mistaken. The curbside tag axle chamber is indeed shot though. So we are replacing that...and the tag axle S cams were installed backwards by someone??? Sheesh. So those are getting swapped. Slack adjusters were not adjusted either. So no wonder my braking was marginal


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Title: Re: MCI C-3 Brakes
Post by: Dave5Cs on November 28, 2016, 08:59:02 AM
You said earlier you only had 2 hoses?.. Has that changed or are you looking at the front cans?.. Just wondering.
Title: Re: MCI C-3 Brakes
Post by: Scott & Heather on November 28, 2016, 01:09:39 PM
I didn't go back under there to look to confirm. But we did only see two lines going to them the other day at the truck shop. I'm going back there now to see underneath and take some photos. I have much bigger issues now with a messed up drive axle which I've posted a new thread on.


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Title: Re: MCI C-3 Brakes
Post by: Scott & Heather on November 28, 2016, 02:05:54 PM
So what are these?
(https://busconversionmagazine.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fuploads.tapatalk-cdn.com%2F20161128%2F42ceb8027f0003bf15371fb823e18ce0.jpg&hash=ae35b0464289ce13d9604b490274a63ec4fbd3cb)(https://busconversionmagazine.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fuploads.tapatalk-cdn.com%2F20161128%2F31e104b27c161499612151e62bf7b210.jpg&hash=c938deaf0bd2651d8b747ffc1d18f2c4da0a199f)(https://busconversionmagazine.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fuploads.tapatalk-cdn.com%2F20161128%2Fa24cbaf5d8d78d5a3d6e05ed3a1c7f82.jpg&hash=a95082bb02465aad9933d2743eb35106b070141a)(https://busconversionmagazine.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fuploads.tapatalk-cdn.com%2F20161128%2F3866cd4a0e02b6a34d1f761858fabf01.jpg&hash=5d4c89f466dc09174fa0566434118c0edc19c099)


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Title: Re: MCI C-3 Brakes
Post by: luvrbus on November 28, 2016, 02:26:35 PM
Looks like a DD-3 to me
Title: Re: MCI C-3 Brakes
Post by: Scott & Heather on November 28, 2016, 02:50:46 PM
Ok so apparently sometimes DD3 have only two air lines going to them?


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Title: Re: MCI C-3 Brakes
Post by: brmax on November 28, 2016, 02:52:39 PM
Must have been a later model Renaissance they started with the piggy backs, probably some custom orders before the E though.

Floyd
Title: Re: MCI C-3 Brakes
Post by: Dave5Cs on November 28, 2016, 03:25:58 PM
Here's a DD3 on mine. It should have 3 lines unless somebody disconnected one of the lines and plugged it like say the emergency brake line from the R-14 Relay valve which would not be good.
Dave
Title: Re: MCI C-3 Brakes
Post by: Rick 74 MC-8 on November 28, 2016, 03:43:24 PM
In the second or third picture where you can actually see the lines it looks like there's a third line there just clocked in a different position


Rick
Title: Re: MCI C-3 Brakes
Post by: Dave5Cs on November 28, 2016, 08:37:18 PM
Yep you can just see where it enters the can on the bottom.
Title: MCI C-3 Brakes
Post by: Scott & Heather on November 28, 2016, 11:16:24 PM
Floyd this isn't a renaissance coach...it looks like one cause I have the fiberglass cap kit


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Title: Re: MCI C-3 Brakes
Post by: blue_goose on November 29, 2016, 07:42:52 AM
If you have to get a DD-3 try Frankie Goodson in Maiden NC.  If you put spring brakes on let me know what you had to do, because I would like to put them on my C-3
Jack
Title: Re: MCI C-3 Brakes
Post by: brmax on November 29, 2016, 08:08:12 AM
yes understood way back, I think it was around 96 the name renaissance was introduced.
Referencing; nothing other than dd3 were used as standard factory installs, until then. http://www.mcicoach.com/service-support/serinfo/serinfo04E.htm (http://www.mcicoach.com/service-support/serinfo/serinfo04E.htm)

Its pretty tough seeing anything under the bus without a pit or way up on ramps, spent a lifetime working this stuff so totally understand. Also I would be getting some theatre popcorn to see some 30-30, piggy back, spring brakes installed on one of these with factory mounts.
consider that not happening!

stay positive
good luck, and these busses are fine with dd3 and way past the wagon wheel rubbin block stuff

Floyd
Title: Re: MCI C-3 Brakes
Post by: luvrbus on November 29, 2016, 08:43:25 AM
My 1995 DL3 has spring brakes
Title: Re: MCI C-3 Brakes
Post by: Dave5Cs on November 29, 2016, 09:11:08 AM
DD3 are no longer being made. They will be around until what is in stoock runs out. I have a guy in West Sacramento that will rebuild them or supply parts to rebuild them. I asked him about people saying they are not making them anymore. He said they are not making the originals but are re maning all part for them if you can afford them.
Dave5Cs
Title: Re: MCI C-3 Brakes
Post by: luvrbus on November 29, 2016, 10:44:59 AM
You can buy new after market DD-3's from REM for about 600 bucks each,I believe that is what Brian paid for his
Title: Re: MCI C-3 Brakes
Post by: Dave5Cs on November 29, 2016, 01:11:24 PM
Boomer was saying that some place in Washington State has them in the 350.00 450.00 range.
Dave5Cs
Title: Re: MCI C-3 Brakes
Post by: luvrbus on November 29, 2016, 01:33:06 PM
Quote from: Dave5Cs on November 29, 2016, 01:11:24 PM
Boomer was saying that some place in Washington State has them in the 350.00 450.00 range.
Dave5Cs

Brake Systems Inc in Portland did sell the rebuilt DD-3 but the last time I checked they dropped the rebuilding on the DD-3 and are selling MGM spring chambers now
Title: Re: MCI C-3 Brakes
Post by: John316 on November 30, 2016, 03:38:05 AM
Quote from: luvrbus on November 29, 2016, 08:43:25 AM
My 1995 DL3 has spring brakes

No it didn't....unless you changed those DD3's out ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: MCI C-3 Brakes
Post by: Scott & Heather on November 30, 2016, 04:30:11 AM
^ now I'm curious cliff. Did you change yours out to spring brakes? This is something I really want to do, because these DD3's are expensive to buy and impossible to find someone to fix.


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Title: Re: MCI C-3 Brakes
Post by: luvrbus on November 30, 2016, 05:36:38 AM
DL's have plenty of room for spring brakes since the air bags are mounted more outwards than on a C. My DD-3 brakes have been gone for 1-1/2 year lol they are on a Eagle in OK.

I  have 30/36 piggy backs with rotate-able heads ,I paid $130.00 ea not $40.00.Scott next time you come down I 40 stop I bet we can figure it out.

When LVMCI comes over I will check his C out to see what we need for the conversion ,the older MCI's with the air beams are almost impossible to convert. DD-3 brakes don't give many problems just when they do it cost so much and I don't believe it will be to far in the future MGM will have a direct spring replacement on the market for the DD-3 
Title: Re: MCI C-3 Brakes
Post by: lostagain on November 30, 2016, 07:35:52 AM
If the DD3 housing is not too corroded, they are not hard to overhaul. They mostly need cleaning and lubricating, and sometimes new rubber diaphragms. Once done, they will last a long time.

JC