MCI 102A3 6V92 Allison HT740
Disaster has struck. My bus started acting weird - was chuffing along, so I pulled over to park and it couldn't go into reverse. Checked fluids, they were fine. Started bus up and it engaged reverse after about 10 seconds. So I let it sit for a couple hours, then tried to drive it again.
Reverse and drive seemed to work. So I started to drive, and it started chuffing along again, so I stopped, and the engine died. I started the engine fine in neutral, then once I pop into drive, the engine dies. Putting it in reverse does nothing, and now neutral sounds funny.
I'm pretty sure the transmission is dead, but looking at a $6-7k job is bad news for us financially right now.
It seems like one of the clutches in the transmission is stuck, and that's why it dies in drive. Don't know how much other damage might have happened.
I called around looking for anyone who would work on buses - there aren't many in the SF area (I'm in Brisbane, CA right now) and the only people willing to work on it told me that they'd just need to pull it and it was pretty much guaranteed to need to be replaced.
Ugh.
Anyone have any thoughts on whether I have a prayer to just fix something in it, and how to tell?
Or know where I can get a cheap (but working!) HT740?
And what's the HT740RS? Can I put that in? Or the HT750DR with it's fancy super low gear?
HT740RS I believe stands for Rugged Service for trash trucks. You wouldn't like it-shifts very firmly. HT750 with it's extra gear tacked on to the rear of the transmission is too long for your application.
Personally-I would find a good transmission guy and if you have time, overhaul your transmission-only replacing what is
truly warn or broken. HT740 is a very stout, long lasting transmission. You maybe able to get away with minimal repair.
Good Luck, TomC
The torque converter and stator died it will need to come out,if you can remove it from the bottom it is a 10hr+ job if the engine has to be removed you will be looking at a 20 hr +job min
Does this transmission use a tcm?? Had one of those go south on me once and it kind of acted like you say yours is doing.That would not be a blessing as those things are in the 3000 dollar range ,but a whole heck of a lot easier to change !!
Dave there is an Allison service center here.
HTH Dave5Cs
467 S Canal St
South San Francisco, CA 94080
Get Directions
Phone number (650) 871-8200
It's not hard to find a good used 740 for under a $1000.00 or a rebuilt 740 from Penske for less than $3000.00 but labor, materials and freight that is the killer,plus you are going to need to pull the oil cooler and replace it or clean on it for a long time ???
good luck
Quote from: Dave5Cs on November 08, 2016, 06:56:17 AM
Dave there is an Allison service center here.
467 S Canal St
South San Francisco, CA 94080
(650) 871-8200
Thanks - but I think they went out of business. The phone number is disconnected and they aren't showing up in Google Maps.
Quote from: bigred on November 08, 2016, 05:54:23 AM
Does this transmission use a tcm??
Unknown - but I don't think so, and I don't think that would explain, for example, the weird whirring/huffing sound I'm now getting when it's neutral. :(
Quote from: luvrbus on November 08, 2016, 07:26:11 AM
It's not hard to find a good used 740 for under a $1000.00 or a rebuilt 740 from Penske for less than $3000.00 but labor, materials and freight that is the killer,plus you are going to need to pull the oil cooler and replace it or clean on it for a long time ???
Do you know who/what I contact at Penske to find a rebuilt?
Quote from: daveola on November 08, 2016, 12:31:04 PM
Do you know who/what I contact at Penske to find a rebuilt?
|
Penske Chevrolet in Cerritos Ca no I don't have a contact since Bob Ware retired
888-919-1297 they will transfer you over to the Allison shop ps. they do good work with a nation wide warranty fwiw
Things are getting worse.
I have found a few sources for reman transmissions, but all the shops I have called in the area so far are not willing to work on an "old" 1986 MCI.
I had a quote of $6k from one shop, but when I called them back I was told the manager wouldn't take the job because it was too much of a hassle.
I'm freaking out a bit, because, as a full-timer, this is my home, and I can't find any way to get it fixed..
I was very happy with the work done by United Transmission Exchange in San Bernardino. I know that is far from where you are, but maybe they know of someone in your area. The guy I dealt with was Adrian. 800 527-1637
Do you have towing coverage that will take it to the closest shop that will do the work?
Are there any big truck salvage yards in the area? you may be able to find one and have it installed at the yard.. A google search showed a few from wrecks. Hope everything works out smoothly. Maybe one of the forum members in the area has a place for you to tow it to until you can get it up and going. Unforchanatly I'm in Louisiana .
Quote from: 1989mci on November 08, 2016, 04:20:14 PM
Are there any big truck salvage yards in the area?
I don't think so - I've had a hard enough time finding parts anywhere near here - I know of the bus graveyard in Williams, CA, I've been trying to contact Ted up there for a few hours, but he isn't terribly phone friendly.
Quote from: 1989mci on November 08, 2016, 04:20:14 PM
Unforchanatly I'm in Louisiana .
Unfortunately my bus is not - we found a great mechanic down in Baton Rouge who works on buses.
Finding *any* mechanics who will work on the bus is proving very difficult. I had one mechanic who quoted me $6k, and when I was ready to bring it in he changed his mind and said he didn't want to work on an old bus because it was too much of a hassle.
Currently the best offer I've got is $10k.
This is becoming a nightmare.
Check and see how much it would cost to tow the bus 600 miles to Mohave Valley Az, 10 grand is way too much money
Quote from: luvrbus on November 08, 2016, 04:58:07 PM
Check and see how much it would cost to tow the bus 600 miles to Mohave Valley Az,
What's in Mohave Valley?
All the tow quotes we've had are about $175/hr round trip, though maybe if we were going that far it would be cheaper - and we could probably find a cheaper tow in Az rather than near San Francisco.
One thing that worries me about towing it that far is that the driveshaft is spinning, which turns the transmission, yes? And it's currently making unhappy sounds in neutral, so the thought of towing 600 miles is a bit scary. I suppose I could disconnect the driveshaft, might be able to do that myself with a little research.
Quote from: daveola on November 08, 2016, 05:49:58 PMWhat's in Mohave Valley?
All the tow quotes we've had are about $175/hr round trip, though maybe if we were going that far it would be cheaper - and we could probably find a cheaper tow in Az rather than near San Francisco.
One thing that worries me about towing it that far is that the driveshaft is spinning, which turns the transmission, yes? And it's currently making unhappy sounds in neutral, so the thought of towing 600 miles is a bit scary. I suppose I could disconnect the driveshaft, might be able to do that myself with a little research.
In most cases/on most buses, you prepare for a tow by pulling axles. remove the small circle of bolts around the hubs, inside the wheel center. That way, the wheels spin free from the differential, drive shaft, transmission etc.
Have you called Muni or AC Transit or any other transit companies' garages there, or any local school districts? Even if they won't do the work for you, they should be able to refer you to a reliable place that can. Sometimes mechanics at school districts and transit yards do work on the side for cash. Who services the local trash trucks - do some of them still use HT740s? The Pacific Bus Museum is in Fremont - maybe those guys have some ideas? (Tom Shafer is with the PBM, an all-round good guy, and there's not much he doesn't know about buses!)
John
Dave,
If you end up having it towed, they should and will disconnect the driveshaft for you or pull the axles so don't even worry about that. Cliff was suggesting you tow it to the Mohave Valley because that's where he is and he could assist you. He's awesome. I also have seen used Allison HT740's used pretty cheap and because they are so bulletproof (I know hard to believe right now) you have a high probability of getting a good solid used unit. The issue is getting it to your bus, and getting them swapped. Do you have emergency tow insurance?
I don't really have emergency tow insurance, I have some small coverage, but not something that will take me hundreds and hundreds of miles.
I'll talk to Cliff about Mohave, maybe overall it will make sense to have it worked on there.
We're definitely in trouble, I have been looking unsuccessfully for work so we are at rock bottom right now, and a $10k fix is just way out of our ballpark, but this is our home. So it's a bad time all around.
I've tried in the past to talk to MUNI and never really got anywhere, but I'll try again - we have to come up with a solution soon since we are parked illegally. Amazingly the Brisbane police haven't even bothered us yet, but clearly that won't last.
Deep breath, daveola!!!
As noted, for a tow, you pull the axles, both sides. Leave the drive shaft alone.
Point of negotiation, if you are on the labour clock, you can save some ca$h by getting the axles puled before the tow arrives.
The tow will need a place to attach an airline, have EVERYTHING ready before the tow arrives... all belongings stowed, axles out, airline attachment ready, again, time is ca$h.
Your goal is: Tow arrives, hooks on, lifts it up, airs it up and drives away. No screwing around.
Get the tow to come in from out there, go see luvrbus. all will be well.
happy coaching!
buswarrior
Quote from: buswarrior on November 09, 2016, 12:59:52 AM
Deep breath, daveola!!!
It's definitely difficult right now. :)
Quote from: buswarrior on November 09, 2016, 12:59:52 AM
As noted, for a tow, you pull the axles, both sides.
After pulling those bolts, does that just disconnect the axle and leave it in place, or do I need to actually drop the axles down and toss them inside the bus?
Quote from: buswarrior on November 09, 2016, 12:59:52 AM
The tow will need a place to attach an airline
I have an air connection to the surplus tanks in the front of the bus - if we fill those will that fill up the bus to the back, or is that one way?
Thanks for the vote of confidence. It seems like quite a bit is falling apart right now.
Quote from: daveola on November 09, 2016, 01:07:33 AMIt's definitely difficult right now. :)
After pulling those bolts, does that just disconnect the axle and leave it in place, or do I need to actually drop the axles down and toss them inside the bus?
I don't know about the air setup on your particular bus (but it makes sense that if you're going to have the air connector, it will properly air the system for towing (but check with someone who knows your system).
Yes, the axles need to physically come out before it rolls. They will probably be stuck in there pretty tightly - once the bolts are out, give them a solid sideways clout with a solid, soft-faced hammer. (Some people will recommend just pulling one axle and letting the differential free-wheel -- I guess that would work for a short tow but if it were my bus, I'd go for pulling both.)
Well heck I thought I had a good 740 that I could help him out with, but after pulling the pan it needs rebuilding too
Anyone tried to call "Stevens" diesel shop? In the Bay Area.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Eddie lived in that area and is sending me some numbers for help
check your PM phone numbers sent for Homer
Hi;
Just another thought; check with a local charter company.
Around this time of year they will take in outside work since
charter work drops off. If nothing else, they can refer you to
a source for work and parts. People in the bus business know
other people in the bus business.
Good luck, Merle.
Quote from: Scott & Heather on November 09, 2016, 06:45:01 AM
Anyone tried to call "Stevens" diesel shop? In the Bay Area.
They don't have room to work on buses.
I've called all the diesel shops in the area and I've only found one that will work on it, and that's the $10k.
I'm searching further away now... Open to suggestions, have to decide in the next 24 hours. If you have an actual place I can get it to that makes sense, please call:
415-341-5555
Thanks everyone.
Try David at Bay Cities Diesel Machine in Benicia, 707 745-8250
--Geoff
As i have recent experience; there should be three threaded holes on the drive axle caps. They fit an 1/2 bolt, at least 1 1/2 long that can be used as axle puller. Mine did not come out with hammer. For reassembly, order the gaskets for between the hub and axle, i could not get mine leak proof with just silicone. There will be about quart of axle grease/oil coming out while you do this so put a small pan under it before removing. Mine has small conical axle centering inserts under the bolts, don't loose those.
What i learned was that a non roof raise bus can fit on a flatbed, but it's still a permit load. a lot easier for long distance than a tow.
Best of luck,
Sami
Quote from: Geoff on November 09, 2016, 01:29:10 PM
Try David at Bay Cities Diesel Machine in Benicia, 707 745-8250
That's funny - I was just calling David when this was posted. It looks like he can do the work, though it will take some time, which we can manage.
Have you had any experience with him?
Quote from: daveola on November 09, 2016, 02:37:30 PMThat's funny - I was just calling David when this was posted. It looks like he can do the work, though it will take some time, which we can manage.
Have you had any experience with him?
I live nearly 3000 miles away, Dave -- I can't offer you any help at all, but if it matters I sure hope that you can get this issue taken care of quickly and as cost-effectively as possible. Wishing you good luck. BH
Quote from: daveola on November 09, 2016, 02:37:30 PM
That's funny - I was just calling David when this was posted. It looks like he can do the work, though it will take some time, which we can manage.
Have you had any experience with him?
I have known David for 30 years, his shop used to do all my machine work when I lived in Vallejo. No problems with him. Tell him Geoff from GDS Diesel Service says hello. I'll be down that way before Christmas.
--Geoff
General Diesel Service, Prescott, AZ
928 771 0045
Dave -
So sorry man. I know that feeling. If you were up in WA State we would put you up for a season of you wanted to do the work yourself.
Wish I could be of help.
We are praying for you that all works out. Praying that through it all it turns into an amazing experience for you.
-Sean
Dave, keep
Us updated. This Community will go out of its way to help you and encourage you. They have for me for over 7 years now.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Quote from: Seangie on November 10, 2016, 10:22:10 AM
If you were up in WA State we would put you up for a season of you wanted to do the work yourself.
That's very kind. And while I've actually pulled a transmission before, it was on a very tiny car.. a car that itself weighs about the same amount as the Allison 740 does. Yikes.
Doing that kind of work on the bus seems outside of my scope of abilities and tools.
Quote from: Scott & Heather on November 12, 2016, 10:24:06 PM
Dave, keep
Us updated. This Community will go out of its way to help you and encourage you. They have for me for over 7 years now.
I'll agree with that - I've been using (and hopefully sometimes helping as well :) ) this forum since I got my bus.
And the current update is that the bus is up in Benicia at Bay Area Diesel.
I need to try to find a reasonably priced used HT740 - I'll start a new post for that since that's a different topic then where to find a mechanic (and seems like answers to that would be useful to google-searching folk of the future)