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Bus Discussion => Bus Topics ( click here for quick start! ) => Topic started by: Scott & Heather on November 06, 2016, 03:59:38 PM

Title: Does your engine run hotter when fighting a headwind?
Post by: Scott & Heather on November 06, 2016, 03:59:38 PM
We are headed from Palm Springs California to grants pass Oregon and on the flat our bus is definitely running a little bit hotter we are fighting heat a little bit more. There's a very strong direct headwind indicated by all the windmills spinning wildly can this actually cause our coach to run a little hotter?


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Title: Re: Does your engine one hotter when fighting a headwind
Post by: digesterman on November 06, 2016, 04:01:32 PM
Quote from: Scott & Heather on November 06, 2016, 03:59:38 PM
We are headed from Palm Springs California to grants pass Oregon and on the flat our bus is definitely running a little bit hotter we are fighting heat a little bit more. There's a very strong direct headwind indicated by all the windmills spinning wildly can this actually cause our coach to run a little hotter?


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It has with our semis so I think true of a bus too. Depends on the time of the year and running nite or day too
Title: Re: Does your engine one hotter when fighting a headwind
Post by: gumpy on November 06, 2016, 04:11:21 PM
Side wind for me. Going across Nebraska or South Dakota in July or August when temps are above 90 cause high temp gauge readings and result in slower progress. But generally, I stay off the interstates, so it's usually, not too much of a problem.
Title: Re: Does your engine one hotter when fighting a headwind
Post by: luvrbus on November 06, 2016, 04:39:28 PM
Head winds and cross winds will do it,did you notice the boost hanging steady   
Title: Re: Does your engine one hotter when fighting a headwind
Post by: Dreadnought on November 06, 2016, 04:41:45 PM
It makes sense that the engine will run a different temperature.

When I worked on helping to design/optimise HD truck engines I made this presentation:

(https://busconversionmagazine.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi273.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fjj229%2FMarquisRex%2FNavistar%2520Truck_zps2y4yuqsb.png&hash=29eb51dd8bea536dde9508f6a675cbf84ebba978) (http://s273.photobucket.com/user/MarquisRex/media/Navistar%20Truck_zps2y4yuqsb.png.html)

On a modern truck, with a 13 litre engine- on the straight and level with no head winds, the truck will require about 160 bhp or power, however if there's some head wind and a gradient this requirement rises significantly to 300 bhp. Obviously the cooling requirements are very different. This is very different to a car, where even with a cross wind the aspect presented is quite small so there's no significant power requirement difference and a similar story for a cars weight.

A bus, despite being a lot less weight than a Semi Truck, will still have collossal requirements up hills and against cross winds. Our engines are quite small compared to modern 13-15 litre class 8 trucks too, little 9.3- 12.7 litre engines, sometimes not turbo charged making say, about 800 ft lbs rather than the more usual modern standard of around 2000 ft lbs.
Title: Re: Does your engine one hotter when fighting a headwind
Post by: Dave5Cs on November 06, 2016, 04:43:55 PM
Yep that cross wind from those windmills will have an effect on you not to say what getting hit by one of those big blades would do, wow..... ::)
Dave5Cs
Title: Re: Does your engine one hotter when fighting a headwind
Post by: Beachfinn on November 06, 2016, 04:49:46 PM
Yep, I was running hot coming through the plains , heading to denver. Verg strong side winds.

Sami
Title: Re: Does your engine one hotter when fighting a headwind
Post by: Utahclaimjumper on November 06, 2016, 04:57:23 PM
  The more fuel going thru the engine at a given speed the more HEAT,,,the more headwind the more you press the go pedal to maintain speed,,more HEAT..>>>Dan
Title: Re: Does your engine one hotter when fighting a headwind
Post by: Geoff on November 06, 2016, 05:30:02 PM
Yes, you hit a headwind just right and the radiator can't suck air resulting in an overheated engine.  Been there a few times.  All you can do is pull over and run the engine at fast idle 'till it cools down, and hope the wind/or road changes direction.

--Geoff
Title: Re: Does your engine one hotter when fighting a headwind
Post by: Iceni John on November 06, 2016, 07:23:49 PM
It's almost always windy in the Banning Pass!   The wind has nowhere else to go between the San Gorgonio and San Jacinto mountains.   When I was taking flying lessons my instructor told me that sometimes the trucks below him on the freeway would be going faster than a Cessna 152 against the afternoon wind!   Driving into the headwind is like bicycling against the wind  -  you can't defeat it, so just slow down and try to find the fastest continuously-sustainable speed, then stick with it even though you sometimes think you can go faster.   It's like when all the trees are growing bent the opposite way that you're traveling, such as on the Sonoma and Mendocino coast of Northern California  -  it's time to just slow down and take it easy.

At times like this a turbo boost gauge is useful  -  it shows just how hard the engine is working, i.e how much heat it's producing.   For me, 18 PSI boost is the most I can sustain indefinitely in average SoCal temperatures, and if I let it get above 20 PSI the temperature gauge will immediately start to climb.

John
Title: Re: Does your engine one hotter when fighting a headwind
Post by: Scott & Heather on November 07, 2016, 07:09:03 AM
Thanks for the input. We definitely were struggling yesterday until the wind subsided. Went through some serious water using the misters. We overnighted in ButtonWillow and tonight will overnight in Corning. Then tomorrow hopefully arrive in Grants Pass. Geoff I wondered if the right wind might actually prevent the rads from
Pulling in air.....btw, no one mentioned the nice grades up and down coming out of Palm Springs. Wow. I pulled in 2nd gear at 43 mph for most of it. Then the most recent decent was long and I had to stay at the recommended 35mph and still had smoking brakes even with down shifting and careful brake stabbing. That was my first intro to any seriously long up and down grades. Nothing quite like this out east. And this is our first foray into the west with the coach in 6 years of full timing


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Title: Re: Does your engine one hotter when fighting a headwind
Post by: HB of CJ on November 07, 2016, 07:18:41 AM
My old long gone Crown Supercoash 10 wheeler had a choice of three different gears cruising along at 55 mph.  Eight, ninth or tenth.  Fuller RTO910.  Just a slight head wind did away with tenth gear.

What was interesting was that side winds also affected the cruising ability in the higher gears.  Slight grades also started taking away the selected running gears.  It did not take much to slow her down.

Climbing the six percent grades ended up selecting 6th or 7th gear.  Adding head winds plus a steep grade sometimes also reduced her by one gear.  Cruising down the highway at 55 was easy.

Tail winds had the opposite effect.  Some conditions resulted in chugging along at 55 mph in tenth gear without harding using any gas pedal position.  Very slick.  But such conditions were very rare.  :)
Title: Re: Does your engine run hotter when fighting a headwind?
Post by: TomC on November 07, 2016, 07:24:54 AM
I've had heating situation with tail wind hitting me from the right rear. No air on the left for radiator.
Title: Re: Does your engine run hotter when fighting a headwind?
Post by: uncle ned on November 07, 2016, 08:49:17 AM


Scott  going into a head wind you are using the right foot more.

And did you let Hard Headed Ken into your ecm.  if so up goes the HP and the heat.

super smart young man.  at least young to me.

uncle ned
Title: Re: Does your engine run hotter when fighting a headwind?
Post by: Scott & Heather on November 07, 2016, 08:52:24 AM
Yep, ken did his magic. Amazing difference but yet at the cost of some added heat. When we finally get some actual cold temps to drive in, this coach comes alive.. unstoppable


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Title: Re: Does your engine run hotter when fighting a headwind?
Post by: luvrbus on November 07, 2016, 08:57:10 AM
Quote from: Scott & Heather on November 07, 2016, 08:52:24 AM
Yep, ken did his magic. Amazing difference but yet at the cost of some added heat. When we finally get some actual cold temps to drive in, this coach comes alive.. unstoppable


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Change to a Charge air cooler then it really comes alive, the after coolers suck but it beats nothing IMO
Title: Re: Does your engine run hotter when fighting a headwind?
Post by: usbusin on November 07, 2016, 09:46:32 AM
Scott said; 
That was my first intro to any seriously long up and down grades. Nothing quite like this out east. And this is our first foray into the west with the coach in 6 years of full timing

Welcome to the west coast!  Lots of ups and downs! 
Title: Re: Does your engine run hotter when fighting a headwind?
Post by: uncle ned on November 07, 2016, 10:38:42 AM


Scott  just wait till you get to see Kens Prevo   It is amazing.

After it you will start on bus number 3.

Clifford i have the charge air cooler  just can not find room for it.

Maybe some day I will show up and we can figure out how.

every body has wishes  maybe some day

uncle ned
Title: Re: Does your engine run hotter when fighting a headwind?
Post by: uncle ned on November 07, 2016, 10:45:33 AM


Do not know which is the most amazing.

The big scenic-cruiser of Pat McNeils or Kens Prevo.

have pictures of them and Huggy blowing diesel smoke all over Jara Smiths grave stone.

Hope someone has the respect to do me the same.

He started us all on the road to bus conversions and big injectors in Detroits.

Maybe Jack Campbell had a little to do with it also.

uncle ned
Title: Re: Does your engine run hotter when fighting a headwind?
Post by: belfert on November 07, 2016, 07:52:42 PM
I think side winds might explain why my bus was overheating just slightly going through Wyoming this year.  The CEL came on twice both with high temperature codes.  It did not get hot enough to shut down.  The rest of the trip with some even steeper grades no heating issues.

We had some horrible weather this year for my big trip.  It was like a hurricane crossing the Salt Flats on I80.  Wind and rain was so bad we could only do 45 MPH at full throttle on a flat road.  Going west from Wendover on I80 it was raining so bad I could hardly see the road.  I don't think I saw another vehicle for a good 30 minutes even though it was only 9 pm.  I guess the rest were smart enough to stop for the night.