Here is a question I have been pondering for at least 20 minutes this morning ;D - what is a good solid bus conversion actually worth? Not current market worth, maybe "worth" is the wrong word, more that combination of what would it take to buy or buy and build a good, solid, well converted motor-home with the normal modern amenities, on a chassis with a reliable engine (old school or new) with current, recently fettled suspension, brakes, tires, steering. No rust issues, a nice paint job, no cracked windows, can pass anyone's DOT inspection without a worry. A solid, workman-like interior that functions well, but not necessarily LED's everywhere, disappearing TV's and mirrors on the ceiling the way some brand new conversion motor-homes seem to feel they need to be. Something that a good handyman could build and feel proud of.
What can you expect to pay to buy this turn-key, or what can you expect to pay all-in if you buy a bus out of passenger service and do the gut/build yourself. I think the number is right around $50K. And up, or course, but at least $50K at the end of the day. What say you all?
Brian
I think we have someplace close to $50 or $60 or more into ours. We kept all the receipts, but I'm afraid to look.
It's a nice 102a3 with a new motor.
Could use a nicer paint job.
I think it would probably sell for around $25. Would love to think it's worth more, but in this economy, there's a lot of cheap deals out there.
Dave
Quote from: bevans6 on October 29, 2016, 06:11:50 AM... What can you expect to pay to buy this turn-key, or what can you expect to pay all-in if you buy a bus out of passenger service and do the gut/build yourself. I think the number is right around $50K. And up, or course, but at least $50K at the end of the day. What say you all?
Brian
I promised myself I'd keep receipts, records, etc. and I mostly didn't. I bought most of my electrical stuff at good "discounts" and if you add up generator, inverter (modest), breaker boxes, transfer switch, and shore cord you come to about $10K. That doesn't include wiring, light fixtures, sockets, HOUSE BATTERIES, light switches, etc. Can you do a "livable house" bus conversion for $50K (US)?
Part of the buy vs build issue is that even the most contentious owner has things that are on the "tomorrow list". I keep on top of my bus mechanically because it goes through a complete commercial DOT inspection every year. It's as up to date with maintenance as it can be, with new suspension, brakes, steering, etc. But a recent trip revealed a worsening clutch issue so it's getting a new transmission update, and it needs four new house batteries to be really trip-worthy. So anything you buy will need work, guaranteed, that will add to the price - even if the work can be justifiably delayed for a while.
Brian
A number is not worth it to me. Be it market value of my bus, it's fuel consumption, or maintenance cost.
My bus (our bus) is worth it to me because I enjoy maintaining it. I keep it in a state of readiness to be able to go at a moment's notice. And when we go, for a week end, or for three months, it is both the nostalgic feel of continuing my bus driving experience started 43 years ago, and the good feeling of travelling in a solid, well built motor home.
It's market value, or cost to me, is really not much compared to bigger, more luxurious motor homes. It is more than a lot of beat up, old rusty buses I see at bus rallies. But hey, the owners of them have as much fun with them as I do with mine.
Most people have a hobby. Some spend a lot more money enjoying their hobby than I do. If a day comes that I can't afford to keep and run my bus, I'll sell it. It might have to be less than $50000. And if I go before the bus does, my wife and kids get to see how much it is worth at the estate sale. By the way, I paid way more than 50 for it a few years ago, before the values went down.
But it is worth it to me.
JC
I'm also trying to figure out prices.My wife wants a newer coach with four slides so I guess my bus will be going up for sale soon. I build my bus as a forever bus but I guess plans change to keep the wife happy.
Worth whatever the buyer is willing to pay.
I think the market for bus conversions, our kind ie starting with a used seated coach, is somewhere between 5-10K for the older coaches. And 40-50K for the newer 40foot coaches.
We are a different market. Mostly owner built. Mostly owner repaired. We built for our family not for sale.
With the usual IMHO
Bill
Now days you can buy shells for 10 to 15k with the series 60,when I bought my 1974 Eagle shell in 1999 I paid 55k just for the shell with a 8v71 which was removed as soon as I returned home, now the same shell would be no more 5000 to 7500 bucks
kind of sad as like many of you I paid 38k usd for the shell and built from there with a slide at a cost of 100 k+ the 38 k = 138 k . now the mci is up for sale for just less then 50 k and as bus conversions go it is in top shape with a out of frame rebuild with only 55klm since rebuild . what I do not under stand is like most of the guys looking for a bus now they only want to spend 5-15 k on a bus then do it them selves ??? as I have been there the cost just to rebuild the engine today is over 15k and if you think the old bus will be fine with 300-400-500-900 k on the engine when you get it you are nuts and to do it your way is fine .
I am working on a 2000 feather lite rv that I got for a song ( new it was 589k )as nothing had been changed since new inside , with only 120 k miles on it I decided for me to rip out the interior and redo it the way we wanted it was a lot less money then redoing a 2000 model year bus with 700 k-900 k miles on it and getting the engine , transmission rebuilt then starting on the rv inside and tanks and all that I did to the mci . so if any 1 wants a great coach call me
http://www.busnut.com/classifieds/index.php?a=2&b=2258 (http://www.busnut.com/classifieds/index.php?a=2&b=2258)
thanks dave
Quote from: luvrbus on October 29, 2016, 08:51:03 AM... ,when I bought my 1974 Eagle shell in 1999 I paid 55k just for the shell with a 8v71 which was removed as soon as I returned home, ...
What did you do - replace it with an 8V-92? Was that too early for a S-60?
Quote from: Oonrahnjay on October 29, 2016, 10:05:51 AM
What did you do - replace it with an 8V-92? Was that too early for a S-60?
Yea I went with 8v92,the 60 series were available but I didn't want a 325 hp 11 L series 60 and the 12.7 L were pricey then.The 8v92 served me well and was a easy install too
21 years ago I converted my first bus,, a 4106,, my wife & I gutted and converted at our own pace and time as we were both working at the time...I befriended a Multimillionaire that was converting an Eagle at the same time...Three years later when traveling together , he asked my what I had "invested" in my coach,,about 20K I replied ,,,,,,,,,,"You piss me off!" , he said,,," I've got $675.000 in mine and I'm not having a damn bit more fun than you are" This Eagle had been stretched to 40 ft.,,widened to 102" raised 8" exterior reskinned,, two slide's,, and a full custom interior,,series 60,,B500,, (did I say he was and is a mutimillioaire)..>>>Dan
Okay. I paid $7500 for my 1965 5a, about 12 years ago. I knew it needed work, but I certainly did not know how much work or how much it would cost. I guess, including putting in the Allison, I have put another $30,000. into it, which to me seems like a lot of money for what it is. I made a decision at some point that no matter what I did with it, the value would not increase, so I pretty much am stingy with what I will do. I keep it safe, reasonably well maintained, comfortable, and ready (for the most part). My son-in-law volunteered to redo the floors. Even there, I am careful not to spend much.
If I could get 20k for it, I would consider selling it since due to my wife's medical issues, we do not use it much. On the other hand, it serves as a good guesthouse, and I like having an emergency backup in case of unforeseen events, and I enjoy even going on day trips with it. My dog loves it too.
Dave--I looked at your ad. It certainly looks great. Did you do the work yourself?
The ad stated it was profesionally converted
With actual cash out of pocket and value of components swapped over from my other bus, I'm into my DL3 north of 65K. This winter will see some new furniture and a diesel genset to replace the gas burner, so maybe around another 10K or more. Try not to think about the money you spend on these things, it'll make you sick lol.
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I figure I could get maybe 20% of what I have into my bus if I sold it. I could certainly get more if I actually finished the interior and painted it.
I plan to keep mine as long as I have a good job and diesel prices don't go to $10 a gallon or something like that. I'm still spending $2,000 to $3,000 a year just to keep it on the road with registration, insurance, and yearly service along with tires and such.
Seven years ago bought ours for $15K. It was converted but the PO rip part of the professional 1989 conversion out and then let it sit. It was a race teams in Missouri then he bought it and drove it to coltan California and then to Sacramento, California where we got it. He was the head Diesel Mechanic for A to Z Bus. We reused everything we could. Fixed a lot of wiring, Mounted brand new seats air ride that were in it but never put in. Put in more cabinets. Re did the bathroom, Kitchen and bedroom. Changed most of the plumbing, new shower. Went through air system lots of new valves and air hose. Went through brakes, new inverter batteries. All new tires. Yep probably have at least 50 in it now but a lot of the work was done by us and a lot of the interior material was things I had left over from some of my jobs before I retired. Probably would get about 20 or 30 today but having way to much fun traveling to rallies and doing weeks and a few months at a time. enjoy keeping up the maintenance on it. ;D
Dave5Cs
Great answers confirming what I thought. I wasn't really after what people thought their bus might fetch, but what an honest feel for what it costs to build a good solid conversion is. I paid $30K for mine, way different market than now, and in Canada to boot, for a rust free MC-5C with a working conversion, new brakes much of the steering/suspension, and a dusted engine (didn't know that part). I'm about $20K more after I finish my transmission exchange, but that includes a new engine as well as new inverter, batteries, and new air-bags in the suspension, and new DD-3's. I have no idea what it's worth, because I never sell nothing...
Brian
Brian, did you buy your 5 direct from the Indians here in Az or from a individual.I saw the other 5 at Globe AZ a few weeks ago for sale it looks in sad shape they were asking 4k for it
It has been my observation that if it doesn't have slides & a computer controlled 4-stroke, the price will be much lower.
Seems most are scared away from the older 2-strokes as they are OLD.
There also seems to be a lot of desire for slides and the extra room they provide.
The reason I wanted to build my own was because I couldn't find a floor plan that I liked.
My reason for starting with an old bus was strength & durability of chassis.
With the cost of no slide factory built motorhomes dropping, the market for converted buses shrinks.
When my wife found a Newell for less than half what I had budgeted for the conversion of my old bus AND it was ready to use NOW, the option was clear.
I have spent so much money on my bus I lost track. It is way more than I thought I would ever spend, and I haven't had the engine or transmission rebuilt.
My shell cost more than many have done an entire bus for. The shell with new tires, registration, getting it home, and taxes was close to $40,000. That price was actually not bad for a factory four stroke back then. I was naive and the shell had major mechanical problems that I spent over $10,000 getting fixed or fixing myself. I was over $50,000 before buying a generator or installing an interior.
Quote from: luvrbus on October 30, 2016, 02:46:40 PM
Brian, did you buy your 5 direct from the Indians here in Az or from a individual.I saw the other 5 at Globe AZ a few weeks ago for sale it looks in sad shape they were asking 4k for it
It was bought direct from the indians or a broker in 2000, when it was retired from service at 20 years old. Imported to Canada by a broker who converted it to Canada spec (a lot of repairs, and metric speedo and hubmeter) then bought by a teacher who converted it and ran it for 10 years, I bought it in 2010.
Brian
Probably figure on getting 50% or less than you think it's worth. Bus conversion interest peaked before fuel prices went crazy and little chance of the interest being that great anymore. The next generation have different interests. Conversion Vans,Bass boats, Harleys..... they have peaked or will as our generation ages. For us the next thing will probably be mobility scooters.
I bought my 4104 pretty cheap for what I thought they would be worth,it's a crap shoot when you buy a vintage bus, never know what might be a problem but then again I bought it to make it my own and enjoy it.
I paid $40,000 for my Prevost in 1999,had a 748 tranny put in and a 8 inch roof raise.was full timing in 2003 with about $12000,00 invested.I had an appraisal done at that time for my insurance and it came in at $185,000.Thirteen years later who knows what it's worth.
We have John 316 and Steve's DL3 it would be frightening to know what they had tied up in that bus and what they let it go for we got a heck of a deal IMO
The value is creeping up with cheaper fuel,when fuel reaches 5 bucks a gal again take off another 25%
A lot of value in things don't change much without change.
I was lucky to work directly under engineers who sharply understood the value of things in a different way than marketers, and bean counters. Although it was their common responsibility to budget all aspects of the build.
Anyway with this opportunity I had seen from many meetings around them their ability to react in their way, calculating quickly and realizing the specific or particular role in the picture "and more importantly" common building steps to better the situation.
Heres where many don't like their answer to "better and or address the issue", in the same mind of the many they have to have this particular information so to evaluate.
what is this secret, I said it!
Evaluate! yep, with what I hate Test and yep! I am the loud one that needs the measure to fix the problem.
The results slowly start a pattern of standards, as them pesky ones we talk and text about.
Good Morning
Floyd
curious: what does insurance say on the sheet "other than the amount due"
I agree with Tom C. There are a lot of factors that go into the value of a converted coach. I recently had the opportunity to take a day trip in a TOTALLY rust-free GM PD4108 that also happened to be for sale for about $70,000.
Nice original conversion. Is it worth that much? Well, the bus was converted new from a factory shell. Very low mileage and parked indoors. Owned by the owner of a charter bus company and extremely well maintained. Everything works. Bus drives very well, however it is a four-speed Spicer.
Bus remains a bus on outside with nothing giving it away as an RV. If someone is into near-classic GM styling, 35-feet and doesn't mind the issues that a wet clutch presents when shifting, it probably is a pretty good deal. But for that price, most people are looking for bigger, newer and automatic driving.
- Seaton
I just listed my bus in the classified section.I still don't know what it's worth but I guess I have to start somewhere.
I had around 135000.00 in mine and many hundreds of hours. I replaced everthing, new 8v-92 rebuilt the Allison. new peninsula windows, on and on you get the picture, sold it and was lucky to get 40,000 and it took two years to get that, this was a very nice coach, it was right when fuel took the big jump. I had fun with the build, but far as a investment the worst I ever made. A very expensive education. I really think twice before I start another project.
Had one dug through the Search fetcher here on BCM or BNO you would have found most telling people that if they are just getting into Bus Conversions that they should have fun and don't ever expect it to be an investment or ever getting much of their money back. I remember a lot telling me that back in 2009 and I adhered to that and continue to tell people that today. Sorry for your loose but its all here in Black and White, Just need to ask before you buy. ;D Good luck in the future...
Dave5Cs
All us bus nuts (in my opinion but think a lot would agree) that we are a unique bunch of characters that are doing what we want, not what we have to. It would be ludicrous to continue to pour money into something without a return - WHAT? Isn't that what a bus is? I think so but wow does it ever feel good to work on them. For some - mechanic-ing, for some carpentry, for others electrical or plumbing or polishing or shining or all of the above. And when we get out on the road, we feel it more and know it more and like it more because that's the return portion of our investment. The enjoyment it gives back to us, maybe for a lot or maybe for a few but diffenetley for me (us)...
I spend as little money on my buses as I have to, I use recycled parts where possible, and I do everything I possibly can myself to keep the cost down. I realize some people have to pay big bucks to have someone else convert, but as has been said, it is not a wise investment in terms of what you get for it when it comes time to sell it. What is very worthwhile, is the pride and enjoyment you get out of it when everything is functioning well, and the security of not being in a stick & staple RV. Of course, the horror stories of super expensive breakdowns puts a damper on that enjoyment, but that applies to RV's as well. The wonderful sound of a Detroit Diesel is music to my ears, and means more to me than the sounds of a Mack, Cummins, Series 60, International, or Caterpillar (although my second love is the sound of a Cat 3406 in a Mack). So what is a conversion worth? It's whatever a fellow bus enthusiast (in their right mind) is willing to pay for it in light of current supply and demand. Nowadays, it's a weak percentage of what it cost to build.
What a bus is worth is just like anything else , what a buyer the day you want to sell is willing to spend. Some build buses because they want to and dream about doing so and others, like myself and the wife because we could not find what we wanted in a rv. We looked at trailers 5th wheels and factory a classes.
The cost was not a major factor but we did have a budget ballpark and stayed close to it .Resale value did not enter into any part of the build for us.When the time comes that we want or have to sell it then market sets the value nothing else.
Chuck