Does anyone have any experience using mild steel for a black water tank?
I know it's not ideal but I have a tank that I could modify easily.
The tank will not be in a storage bay so a leak after time won't be a huge problem.
I know that it won't last forever but neither will I.
Anyone have an idea of how long I can expect such a tank to last?
Is it worth doing or will it rust out in short order?
Thanks.
Will weigh a lot and rot out in short order.
small scale (500-1000 person) extended aeration wastewater treatment plants are made out of it. the ones i over saw in the oil patch were 40 years old and did not rot out in any fashion...
note the sludge tanks are highly fecal/poopy :)
(https://busconversionmagazine.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.pollutioncontrolsystem.com%2FUploads%2Fimages%2FPackage-Plant-Cut-Out-Drawing1.jpg&hash=1d562146a4c7013603d6858d7adccb14acb3040f)
ps...the water in a plant is not blue ...except in the effluent/chlorinator
...and if treated properly it can be made potable.
There are steel septic tanks. They are said to last 15 years or so, but since they are in the ground, they can still function even if there is a leak from corrosion. Your tank would not be so secretive.
I would say steel would work if there is limited Oxygen, and the interior is coated. One could say plastic is the way to go. I've just seen so much steel turn to dust.
Are you willing to deal with the mess and removal a leak would create down the road after your conversion is done? If yes, then go for it. Also replacing that tank later could be problematic as the area the tank is installed may not allow for flexibility in replacement.
You won't be able to squeeze a metal tank in a bay, it has to be smaller than the tightest space, sounds logical doesnt it? But if its not fabricated from scratch to exact measurement some have to be ssqueezed in, lvmci...
Plastic tanks are best. Steel will rust out in short order with the combination of salt and ammonia in waste.
Believe me you do not want a steel tank. Just ask the BCI members about the Vanlandingham's s#%###t experience at Pahrump last year. Now have a heavy plastic made by one of the BCM advertisers. Go ahead Garry Hatt jump on this one.
ED
Our 4104 had a fabbed aluminum tank. After approx. ten years it started leaking, fortunately slowly. Replaced with a fabbed plastic tank fabbed from sheet stock and a plastic welder. Never leaked.
If you're set on using a steel tank, why not coat its inside with epoxy or tar or something that will be a barrier to the pee and poo? Otherwise it may not last long. Also, how will you reliably attach all the various fittings for it?
Roto-molded 3/8" polyethylene with spin-welded fittings is still the preferred way, for good reason.
John
On the other hand, if it is already available, the right size for the space you have, why not make use of it? Since it is for a Gillig, right, you will probably hang it off the frame with straps. A plastic tank would require more support. There are coatings that car restorers use to coat the inside of gas tanks that you pour in and slosh around. If it works for gasoline, it should work for sewage. Of course, if someone wants to donate a plastic tank.... ;)
Both my 45gal black tank and 85gal gray tank are "hung" from the sub frame of my bus. Since I have a transit, I have only 22" of under space. I created a 3/4" platform with 1 1/2" angle Iron around the perimeter, hung with the 1 1/2" angle iron. It has worked for 22 years. I learned this from 800,000mi of driving my truck with its 20 gal black tank and 25 gal gray tank that never leaked. Good Luck, TomC
Quote from: DoubleEagle on October 28, 2016, 06:44:43 PM
On the other hand, if it is already available, the right size for the space you have, why not make use of it? Since it is for a Gillig, right, you will probably hang it off the frame with straps. A plastic tank would require more support. There are coatings that car restorers use to coat the inside of gas tanks that you pour in and slosh around. If it works for gasoline, it should work for sewage. Of course, if someone wants to donate a plastic tank.... ;)
Exactly.
I like the coating idea. I will have to look into it further.
I am just trying to find out if anyone has tried this and had problems.
The steel tank is free.
My bus budget is limited.
I'd like to save money for important things like shiny aluminum wheels and chrome lug nut covers.
I really appreciate you gentlemen and this site.
I am not a big internet guy but I look at this site most days.
Educational and entertaining.
Thanks.
Quote from: Alan N on October 29, 2016, 07:20:47 PM
My bus budget is limited.
I'd like to save money for important things like shiny aluminum wheels and chrome lug nut covers.
If your bus budget is limited I would stay away from aluminum wheels unless there is something wrong with your current wheels.
Quote from: belfert on October 29, 2016, 09:12:08 PM
If your bus budget is limited I would stay away from aluminum wheels unless there is something wrong with your current wheels.
EXACTLY what Brian said!
A can of spray paint can make steel wheels look mighty purty pretty darn CHEAP!
Aluminum wheels are only 1/2 the costs involved in that deal!
You have to first find decent wheels. Then the studs need changed ** CACHING ca ching $ $ $ and lots of PIA work involved if you aren't equipped with the proper tools and equipment! And then there is the wheel nuts and your fancy covers you want! (that disappear regularly)
;D BK ;D
Quote from: Alan N on October 29, 2016, 07:20:47 PM
Exactly.
I like the coating idea. I will have to look into it further.
I am just trying to find out if anyone has tried this and had problems.
The steel tank is free.
My bus budget is limited.
I'd like to save money for important things like shiny aluminum wheels and chrome lug nut covers.
I really appreciate you gentlemen and this site.
I am not a big internet guy but I look at this site most days.
Educational and entertaining.
Thanks.
The outfit that I used twenty years ago to coat a gas tank (still okay) was hirschauto.com. There are probably others that make similar products, but theirs worked for me. Painted steel wheels will be cheaper by a good amount, you will have plenty of things to spend money on during the course of your conversion. White wheels will fit in just fine on a white bus.
My shiny wheel comment was meant as a joke.
But the advice is all spot on.
I do have aluminum wheels on my steer axle. Haven't found any for the drive yet. Haven't looked very hard either.
Spending money on my toad right now. Rebuilding the engine in a Samurai.
Quote from: Alan N on October 30, 2016, 04:49:34 PM
My shiny wheel comment was meant as a joke.
I knew that :)
Quote from: eagle19952 on October 31, 2016, 07:23:51 PM
I knew that :)
Well, I bought it, hook, line, and sinker. I thought he was going for the razzle dazzle, just like us. ;D
I'd Spray paint your wheels black and then get the ss lug caps for the shinny bits much cheaper!....I hear there is a shinny door prize at the Dam Rally next week....Score
Glad I could help..... :o ::)
Dave5Cs
How's this for a crazy idea? Would a sacrificial anode, like what the hole-in-the-ocean crowd use to stop their "investments" corroding away to nothing, would it work in this application? Would it help prolong the life of the tank itself by corroding in the presence of an acidic electrolyte (your pee)? This from a confirmed landlubber who has no idea about such matters. I have an anode in my Suburban water heater that should, theoretically, slow the rate that the tank corrodes through, and I was surprised just how quickly it actually dissolves in our regular water here.
John
You could probably thin out some tar based foundation coating and pour it into tank and manipulate it to get completely coated and allow to dry. Maybe a second coat after month of drying. Use an inspection mirror to make sure you don't miss any spots.
Razzle Dazzle in a Gillig school bus?? ;D
I do like the coating the tank idea.
I am looking forward to having the bus in my shop this winter. :)
Lots of projects.