I'm fully convinced that the shop I was monkeying around with while converting my coach this summer just is completely inept at performing wheel seal rr. I am in Atlanta and I've been watching my passenger front rim get oiled for the last month. The level in the hub hasn't changed at all which is the weird part. I've always had them leak on the inside of the rim but never the outside. It does not leak on the inside. Inside of the tire is clean. (https://busconversionmagazine.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fuploads.tapatalk-cdn.com%2F20160922%2Ff944d043560c765a961c9d9591b3683c.jpg&hash=4af76e4d1fc32c7b606e100c91ae1d2d3f288b07)(https://busconversionmagazine.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fuploads.tapatalk-cdn.com%2F20160922%2F8c511eb5e33e7d8783819970a67813a2.jpg&hash=d2fa79afe019ec3392c10016bb5513aadf8301aa)(https://busconversionmagazine.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fuploads.tapatalk-cdn.com%2F20160922%2Ff4d1286f21a60eb1b8e7106a0c7f74a1.jpg&hash=8a740e0e5d341d20977d7db1c222c64d246be91b)(https://busconversionmagazine.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fuploads.tapatalk-cdn.com%2F20160922%2F198b430294b4081a8cda68106f69a7b3.jpg&hash=5c46c47f401888c5291ef125c1d4f31024055811)(https://busconversionmagazine.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fuploads.tapatalk-cdn.com%2F20160922%2Ff460f090453c4adba1d3eced8a67ca35.jpg&hash=c9d5f02d8ef94100aa6e1a9daed36c08f68d5bca)
I need to get this into a shop to fix it so I don't toast my brand new bearings. I can't believe after having my coach 4 times over the summer they still couldn't get it right. Is this an outer seal that's bad? What makes the oil manifest on the rim surface?
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It all looks new, as it should. if the rubber plug is good, the plastic is not cracked, the hub cap has a good gasket, then maybe the wrong oil is in there. I use Lucas hub oil, which is very viscous and tends to stay inside the hub very well.
Change the thing over to grease and forget about these issues. Oil seal hubs are like car sunroofs. Sooner or later, they are going to leak. They are great when they are sealed, but quite a mess is created, and especially contaminated brake linings and reduced stopping power. That looks like the cap to hub seal is the problem if it is dry on the inside of the brake drum. Ifyou pull the wheel, you should be able to see the point of leak. If it is dry there, then it is the cap plug to hole issue. It takes very little oil to make that mess.
Look at the bright side, your wheel is never going to rust ...
It is a little late since you have all new bearings but you can convert the tag and steering over to sealed bearing like all the newer buses and trucks are running now.MCI and Prevost are both using sealed bearing no grease, no oil ,no leaking and no mess
Get some Lucas wheel seal stop leak, it is great stuff. More than likely with that small leak it will stop it and save you from more problems. I use it even if there is not a leak.
Jack
Very possible that hub was overfilled to begin with,, clean the wheel and area and keep an eye on it,if overfilled it will leak from the plug. It does'nt take much to make a mess.>>>Dan
Now you tell me Cliff. Lol
I've already clean the wheel off once and it still doing it. I will continue to keep an ion it and see if it is just trying to level out
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There is no outer seal. Only an inner. The cap has a gasket under it.
Quite often a leak can occur between the plastic center ring and the metal cap. If it's there, replace the cap and gasket. Actually, the photos appear to show oil between the plastic and metal.
Also, if the vent hole in the green plug is plugged, or isn't there, the hub will pressurize as it heats up and push the oil out. Several years ago, there were a bunch of plugs out that didn't have the vent hole in them.
Oil level should be just to the bottom lip of the fill hole.
Quote from: chessie4905 on September 22, 2016, 04:46:05 AM
Change the thing over to grease and forget about these issues. Oil seal hubs are like car sunroofs. Sooner or later, they are going to leak. They are great when they are sealed, but quite a mess is created, and especially contaminated brake linings and reduced stopping power. That looks like the cap to hub seal is the problem if it is dry on the inside of the brake drum. If you pull the wheel, you should be able to see the point of leak. If it is dry there, then it is the cap plug to hole issue. It takes very little oil to make that mess.
baloney....
in 40 years in the trade i have never "converted" one to grease.
and i have never wanted to.
it is fixable as designed.
If it leaks with oil it will leak with grease. The grease only remains solid when parked and cold, when it heats up it liquified and will leak just as oil would
Quote from: eagle19952 on September 22, 2016, 09:00:59 AM
baloney....
in 40 years in the trade i have never "converted" one to grease.
and i have never wanted to.
it is fixable as designed.
Exactly! If it leaks, determine where and why and fix it.
What type oil are you using mine takes 30w engine oil
Quote from: wayne on September 22, 2016, 09:34:37 AM
If it leaks with oil it will leak with grease. The grease only remains solid when parked and cold, when it heats up it liquified and will leak just as oil would
to this i also say baloney...
there are armature bearings that retain grease
there are railroad cars wheel bearings that are used in kilns to make bricks
there are race cars whose rotors turn and stay mostly red/orange hot
there are airplanes that see sub zero and red hot on the same day...sometimes the same hour..
these greases do not liquefy.
Say what you want, I don't know what grease you run in yours but I converted 4 of my dump trucks to grease. 11 axles on each truck hauling 180,000lbs daily. You can pump grease in that axle and send it out, when it comes back it is liquid ( believe it or not). You can't tell me they don't leak because I've been there too.
What grease are you running that doesn't do this? The grease I run is a Mobil red synthetic that I was told was my only option at the time I did mine. There are new products out now but the only one I know of that people are having good luck with is the Amsoil Synthetic wheel grease, that will stay a solid and not leak. However, if parts have been replaced and there is still a leak then there is a issue and plugging the leak with a product that won't leak doesn't resolve that. I've seen improperly installed races cause issues that contribute to leaks.
It's your bus so do what you want but keep in mind if you special order a set of heavy duty trailers from several manufacturers at $195,000 and specify that you want grease in the axles and not oil they will send your money back refuse to sell them to you. If you don't believe me just call Rhoads Manufacturing in West Virginia and ask.
Maybe these sealed bearings will be the answer but I'm gonna wait and see how it all shakes before I change anything. An oil leak is just a little reminder that something is happening in there.
40+ years in the heavy highway/oilfield/construction industries
20 as a lubricants jobber employee.
kilns get to temps in excess of 1400 degrees.
with 40 feet of bricks.
it remains grease.
it is not synthetic.
here is one.
Sil-X Grease NLGI 1
Sil-X® Grease is a silica-thickened grease recommended for industrial applications subjected to very high temperatures requiring a lubricant which will not melt.
Quote from: eagle19952 on September 22, 2016, 03:02:41 PM
kilns get to temps in excess of 1400 degrees.
with 40 feet of bricks.
it remains grease.
it is not synthetic.
The wheels on brick kiln cars are not subject to high temperatures. There is a firebrick floor on the car on which the bricks being fired are stacked. This floor seals against the side walls of the kiln, isolating the heat and keeping it away from the wheels and car structure.
If you want to get it looked at while in Atlanta call Welch Industries
http://welchindustries.com/ (http://welchindustries.com/)
Their main focus is on coach air conditioning, but they do other work too!
Quote from: eagle19952 on September 22, 2016, 03:02:41 PM
40+ years in the heavy highway/oilfield/construction industries
20 as a lubricants jobber employee.
kilns get to temps in excess of 1400 degrees.
with 40 feet of bricks.
it remains grease.
it is not synthetic.
here is one.
Sil-X Grease NLGI 1
Sil-X® Grease is a silica-thickened grease recommended for industrial applications subjected to very high temperatures requiring a lubricant which will not melt.
Thanks Bryce. I washed the wheel today and let it sit in the sun and clearly saw that indeed the stemco hub cover is leaking because the lazy shop peeps didn't put a new gasket in. Grrr. I'll have to fix it when I get to Orlando. I'm out of time here.
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drive that wheel up on a tall block, causing the oil to run back into the hub. With luck, you will not loose much when you remove the cover to replace the gasket. To avoid torquing the bus, I'd probably run the front and back up on similar blocks.
A very good read on what grease is -
http://www.machinerylubrication.com/Read/1352/grease-basics (http://www.machinerylubrication.com/Read/1352/grease-basics)
An excerpt -
Applications Suitable for Grease
Grease and oil are not interchangeable. Grease is used when it is not practical or convenient to use oil. The lubricant choice for a specific application is determined by matching the machinery design and operating conditions with desired lubricant characteristics. Grease is generally used for:
-Machinery that runs intermittently or is in storage for an extended period of time. Because grease remains in place, a lubricating film can instantly form.
This is why I want grease in the hubs on my coach - HOWEVER - if I could use my coach every day, I would happily change to oil. ;D
That is exactly right.Don't know if you guys are that familiar with older Subaru's or not ,but they had a CV joint that must have held a pound of grease and you could get a pin hole in that CV boot and it would grease the whole underneath front to back!!!!!It would sling every drop of the grease out of it !!!
Quote from: gumpy on September 22, 2016, 03:10:49 PM
The wheels on brick kiln cars are not subject to high temperatures. There is a firebrick floor on the car on which the bricks being fired are stacked. This floor seals against the side walls of the kiln, isolating the heat and keeping it away from the wheels and car structure.
bricks fire at 2000*F +.
tho the wheels may be isolated...I believe they suffer temps greater than any a road worthy bearing sees .... hence a specified grease. i give AWAG and say close to 1000*
About the only place on heavy equipment that uses grease are a few external places like places with pins and bushings 99.9 % of the bearings engine, and the drive train use oil they gave up on grease years ago and they can set for years with no ill effect
My old MCI 9 never once gave me a fit with the oil hubs. I did have to change out to new covers and gaskets but once I did that I had 6 years of completely perfect service with zero issues. I just wish I could get the 102 to baseline and just stop leaking. Cliff I'm using 90w gear lube
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Quote from: luvrbus on September 22, 2016, 06:57:25 PM
About the only place on heavy equipment that uses grease are a few external places like places with pins and bushings 99.9 % of the bearings engine, and the drive train use oil they gave up on grease years ago and they can set for years with no ill effect
i certainly agree. oil is the design for a reason.
i just have not seem it turn to liquid under normal circumstance :)
Quote from: eagle19952 on September 22, 2016, 07:31:55 PM
i certainly agree. oil is the design for a reason.
i just have not seem it turn to liquid under normal circumstance :)
The thickener lubricant combination used will determine the viscosity of the grease.
I have seen lots of instances where the lubricant has left little more than the soap base behind.
When I was designing some custom machinery that had a demanding bearing application - the bearing engineers told me the bearing rollers didn't care what the lubrication was - as long as the rollers were wet.
Also said that "lubricated for life" was a marketing term. All of the engineers knew that when the lubrication was gone, that was the life of the bearing.
Another interesting thing was how temperature affects oil life. Best to keep it as cool as possible. ;D
Well, oil vs grease has been nicely covered, and Scott has yet another reason to stay away from a certain garage in Michigan. ;)
^ well said and yes indeed lol
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It really makes no difference oil or grease if you don't keep a eye on it and maintain it's going to cost you big time when you start buying spindles and hubs a new front spindle for a Prevost is over 3 grand fwiw
Quote from: luvrbus on September 23, 2016, 05:50:10 AM
It really makes no difference oil or grease if you don't keep a eye on it and maintain it's going to cost you big time when you start buying spindles and hubs a new front spindle for a Prevost is over 3 grand fwiw
Exactly!
OK so drifting this thread a little bit since my brakes have been repeatedly soaked in gear lube, even though they are brand-new do I need to replace them down the road? Will they be more prone to cracking?
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Quote from: Scott Bennett on September 23, 2016, 07:19:40 AM
OK so drifting this thread a little bit since my brakes have been repeatedly soaked in gear lube, even though they are brand-new do I need to replace them down the road? Will they be more prone to cracking?
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You can look at edges to see how deep the grease has soaked in if it doesn't show just clean the shoes you will be fine
Ok thanks :)
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Quote from: Scott Bennett on September 24, 2016, 07:55:07 PM
Ok thanks :)
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Scott - it'll smoke and stink if the pads are saturated with oil. That 90w oil smells nasty when it burns up. You'll smell it in stop and go traffic or braking down a good incline.
-Sean
Ok good thought. You've had experience apparently :)
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Acetone will clean it but if glued on and not rivets use something else
The shop used brake cleaner.
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FWIW, the hub cap pictured is a CR and was at the correct level in the picture. The hub oil should be a hypoid 80-90w or full synthetic 50W. The drawback of using grease is a lack of replacement lube (to the rollers of the bearing) when cold and you first get rolling. Not that you will be driving around in -40 degrees so probably not applicable in your situation.
Jim, I have driven in -22F so I guess you never know lol
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FWIW,
I just replaced that exact unit because it was leaking between the clear plastic and the metal cover. No way of fixing it. Good news is the replacement part is about 20 bucks. Took apart five minutes to replace and another twenty with brake cleaner to mop up the mess.