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Bus Discussion => Bus Topics ( click here for quick start! ) => Topic started by: Scott & Heather on August 29, 2016, 12:38:06 PM

Title: Watch my video of my bus headlights being weird
Post by: Scott & Heather on August 29, 2016, 12:38:06 PM
Can anyone point me in a general direction why this is happening? Both headlights work when ignition is ON but coach ISN'T RUNNING. When I start the coach, one headlight goes out. I can keep them both on by quickly turning the ignition off and back on again so fast that the coach engine doesn't actually shut down. Annoying.
https://vimeo.com/180640088 (https://vimeo.com/180640088)


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Title: Re: Watch my video of my bus headlights being weird
Post by: Gary Hatt - Publisher BCM on August 29, 2016, 12:50:50 PM
Hummm Scott.  Smells like a voltage drop somewhere. I would start by checking the voltage at the bulbs and if it is varying, run a test wire back to the battery ground on the negative side of your bulb.  You may have a ground problem.  I would turn power off to everything else first to ensure something in your system is not drawing more power than it should. Otherwise it may be a bad alternator.  I always carry a red and a black 50' 12 gauge stranded wire with alligator clips on each end for testing circuits.

Or better yet, change your headlights to strobe lights like Steven Wright did so at night it looks like you are the only one moving down the highway.   :D
Title: Re: Watch my video of my bus headlights being weird
Post by: Gary Hatt - Publisher BCM on August 29, 2016, 01:51:00 PM
I just watched your video again Scott but this time I got sea sick.  Sorry.  ;D
Title: Re: Watch my video of my bus headlights being weird
Post by: Scott & Heather on August 29, 2016, 04:24:35 PM
lol Gary. Always a nut


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Title: Re: Watch my video of my bus headlights being weird
Post by: Jim Eh. on August 29, 2016, 07:15:18 PM
Most common fault is poor grounds. Even when you just turn the key on it appears the intensity changes back and forth between head lamps but it is an internet video so I may be misled. So many times electrical issues have been ground issues that when ever I have an electrical problem I just clean the grounds in the circuit before trying to diagnose any further.
Title: Re: Watch my video of my bus headlights being weird
Post by: DoubleEagle on August 29, 2016, 08:17:03 PM
I don't see any problem except that the flashing red and blue lights are missing!  ;D
Title: Re: Watch my video of my bus headlights being weird
Post by: muldoonman on August 30, 2016, 04:42:57 AM
Maybe the new bus is trying to act like the sig pic you got posted under your name.  Blinkie blinkie.
Title: Re: Watch my video of my bus headlights being weird
Post by: Dave5Cs on August 30, 2016, 07:11:53 AM
Looks like the driver side is less bright all the time even when both are on. I would check that ground first as well as cleaning the socket and put some dielectric grease in it or both. Also check I thin 12 volt is stud 55 IIRC because mine anyway had a bunch of 12 volt systems put on that stud and it needed cleaning and tightening.
Dave
Title: Re: Watch my video of my bus headlights being weird
Post by: luvrbus on August 30, 2016, 07:35:22 AM
Those are projection lights it depends on the angle you look at one then they do look dim,I will check later and see how mine are wired through the relays
Title: Re: Watch my video of my bus headlights being weird
Post by: Scott & Heather on August 31, 2016, 07:38:22 PM
Another data point is that these are HID gas discharge lamps. So you see them fire on after ignition and then warm up. But the issue really is that I have to switch the ignition off and then on again rapidly to get them both to light up. Weird stuff


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Title: Re:
Post by: thomasinnv on September 01, 2016, 07:47:44 AM
Are the headlights a true 12v setup, or the funky 12v wired relay thingy wired to 24v whatchamadigit like some of the older buses?
Title: Re: Watch my video of my bus headlights being weird
Post by: Scott & Heather on September 01, 2016, 09:19:07 AM
Nope. True 12 volts off of the twin VANNER EQUALIZERS I have


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Title: Re:
Post by: thomasinnv on September 01, 2016, 09:50:37 AM
Twin vanners? What size are they? I just have a single 100 amp. Contemplating the possibility of adding a second 100amp to supply enough amperage to run the ac from the inverter while under way. Not convinced though.
Title: Re: Watch my video of my bus headlights being weird
Post by: Scott & Heather on September 03, 2016, 07:24:09 PM
I think 50 each?


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Title: Re:
Post by: thomasinnv on September 03, 2016, 08:02:27 PM
I have a 50 I pulled from my other bus but I wouldn't think it a good idea to combine with the 100amp, I don't think they would play well together. I'll keep my eyes open for another 100amp.

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Title: Re:
Post by: belfert on September 04, 2016, 11:56:41 AM
Quote from: thomasinnv on September 01, 2016, 09:50:37 AM
Twin vanners? What size are they? I just have a single 100 amp. Contemplating the possibility of adding a second 100amp to supply enough amperage to run the ac from the inverter while under way. Not convinced though.

Off the original topic, but what voltage is the inverter, 12 volt or 24 volt?  An MCI should have a 24 volt chassis system.
Title: Re:
Post by: thomasinnv on September 04, 2016, 03:13:56 PM
The inverter is 12v, hence the comment about adding another vanner for increased capacity to supply the inverter while under way.

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Title: Re: Watch my video of my bus headlights being weird
Post by: Scott & Heather on September 04, 2016, 05:49:54 PM
My coach is wired 24volt but all of the exterior lighting is 12 volt


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Title: Re: Watch my video of my bus headlights being weird
Post by: Iceni John on September 04, 2016, 06:25:58 PM
Is one ballast defective?   Are the HID capsules getting exactly the same running voltage?   I'm also wondering if their hot restrike is the same both sides.

My car's HID headlights (Hella 90mm "Bi-Xenon") also fire at slightly different times from cold, but their hot restrike is the same  -  sometimes HIDs just do weird things!

John
Title: Re: Watch my video of my bus headlights being weird
Post by: robertglines1 on September 05, 2016, 06:31:45 AM
Did you use original light socket?  did you use original wiring? where did you interpret signal from switch to come on? Where did you add power feed to 12 volt supply?  Bob
Title: Re: Watch my video of my bus headlights being weird
Post by: Scott & Heather on September 05, 2016, 07:11:42 AM
John, it might be the HID's firing issues that are causing this. Never occurred to me until you mentioned it. Duh. It never did this when I had halogens in there. Bob, original doesn't apply. The front cap is an R&M which of course comes with the projector headlamp housings. My bus did come from the factory with all exterior lamps 12 volt so yes original wiring. Though a lot of it was updated when the caps went on. But I think I've realized with help that the HID lighting system just works different than a normal filament bulb as they have to fire up a gas discharge bulb and this process isn't always an exact science so my guess is that when starting the coach, the draw on the electrical system is enough to tell the ballast to quit from low voltage and then it doesn't refire. I can rectify this now that I know what's happening.


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Title: Re:
Post by: thomasinnv on September 05, 2016, 07:25:25 AM
Hey Scott is the headlight switch on when you are checking these or are they on a daytime run switch?

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Title: Re: Watch my video of my bus headlights being weird
Post by: eagle19952 on September 05, 2016, 08:36:29 AM
I know zip...about this...but...

is there any possibility that the relay feeding the bulbs is defective ?
would it not be a better design to feed each bulb from it's own relay ?
Title: Re: Watch my video of my bus headlights being weird
Post by: luvrbus on September 05, 2016, 09:17:44 AM
Quote from: eagle19952 on September 05, 2016, 08:36:29 AM
I know zip...about this...but...

is there any possibility that the relay feeding the bulbs is defective ?
would it not be a better design to feed each bulb from it's own relay ?

I checked mine they are feed from 4 different cube relays under the drivers window,they don't blink when starting,the Delco 39 starter may be reason mine don't blink also the older Delco starters do take a huge bite from the batteries when starting    
Title: Re: Watch my video of my bus headlights being weird
Post by: robertglines1 on September 05, 2016, 11:25:38 AM
I would check actual voltage being delivered to bulb. Anything under 12.6 and you are loosing performance.
Title: Re: Watch my video of my bus headlights being weird
Post by: Scott & Heather on September 05, 2016, 06:17:20 PM
The headlight switch doesn't do anything. Headlights are wired with ignition so they are always on. I dislike it actually. And I'm changing that as soon as I get time.


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Title: Re:
Post by: thomasinnv on September 05, 2016, 07:19:29 PM
Mine is wired so that any time the parking brake is released the lights are on. Have you tried just turning on the headlight switch? Some daytime running lights are designed that they operate at a slightly lower voltage so the headlights are slightly dimmer in daytime operation.  Have you checked the voltage at the headlight fixture? If they are reduced voltage for daytime running that may be the whole problem.

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Title: Re: Watch my video of my bus headlights being weird
Post by: robertglines1 on September 06, 2016, 07:51:09 AM
My test results against what they should have been.  My Batt engine off 12.86V headlight on at light 10.80which = 510 lumes.  At correct voltage should have been 12.8V= 1000 lumes,,   Engine running-Charging 14V  Mine at sockets= 11.88 v or 67% of capacity ..     Chart says at 14V the out put should be 1356 lumes.   Mine were only putting out 900 lumes in the beginning. NOW put out full capacity.  I did not replace switch just cleaned up power supply and used switch as signal rather than a power source. The wire is undersized for the power needs on that vintage prevost. I did increase that from  power supply relay to sockets. I hope this helps thought process.  I did away with day time running module/that is manual now.
Title: Re:
Post by: eagle19952 on September 06, 2016, 03:38:36 PM
Quote from: thomasinnv on September 05, 2016, 07:19:29 PM
Mine is wired so that any time the parking brake is released the lights are on.
Some daytime running lights are designed that they operate at a slightly lower voltage so the headlights are slightly dimmer in daytime operation.  

Cheezus Crackers.....Seriously ??....who are the brilliant electrical engineers mandated by to design crap like this ?
Who ever can't flip switches need not possess a CDL.
Title: Re: Watch my video of my bus headlights being weird
Post by: Scott & Heather on September 06, 2016, 07:02:15 PM
Agreed ^
I wonder if mine are set up low voltage as daytime runners. Headlight switch used to turn the high beams on but mysteriously quit. I have issues to chase lol. Bob I'll be checking the voltage to them asap


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Title: Re: Watch my video of my bus headlights being weird
Post by: luvrbus on September 06, 2016, 07:10:41 PM
Quote from: Scott Bennett on September 06, 2016, 07:02:15 PM
Agreed ^
I wonder if mine are set up low voltage as daytime runners. Headlight switch used to turn the high beams on but mysteriously quit. I have issues to chase lol. Bob I'll be checking the voltage to them asap


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Does the dimmer switch work do have high and low beams ? my high beams won't work without the switch turned on
Title: Re:
Post by: thomasinnv on September 06, 2016, 08:23:52 PM
Scott is it possible the dimmer switch was set on high beam, and when you turned the headlight switch on they just came on because of that? Have you tried turning on the headlight switch after you start the bus  and see if the headlights stop flickering?

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Title: Re: Watch my video of my bus headlights being weird
Post by: belfert on September 07, 2016, 05:26:26 PM
Scott, are these HID Xenon or halogen projector headlights?  The bright white color of the lights in the video makes me think they are HID Xenon.

HID projectors will have a ballast and should not be all that sensitive to voltage unless it is really low.  If it is HID I would try hooking a battery directly to the ballast to see if the headlight lights up.  Do not connect to the bulb itself.
Title: Re: Watch my video of my bus headlights being weird
Post by: Scott & Heather on September 07, 2016, 09:32:04 PM
Cliff, I have a floor dimmer switch and it does nothing. When I first bought the coach the headlight switch on the dash activated the high bEams. Now it does nothing. The headlights light up and do not flicker once they are both fired and lit. Yes they are HID xenon. Actual gas fired units with ballasts like Lexus and bmw etc.


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Title: Re: Watch my video of my bus headlights being weird
Post by: belfert on September 09, 2016, 12:05:25 AM
Since they are HID I would definitely try to get access to the ballast and provide power directly to the ballast.  Unfortunately, the ballasts usually have a plug for power so I am not sure how you would get power to the ballasts without possibly cutting wires and then splicing them back together.  I retrofitted 90mm BiXenon HID projector headlights into my bus, but most of the work was the mounts for the headlights.  The electrical was the easy part.

I would be happy to help with your headlights if I wasn't 1,000 miles away in Minnesota.