I have had this thought for a while; I am trying to figure out how to trust my engine because I don't have the best feeling about it. Perhaps it is like most things that you don't have a lot of experience with, it becomes easy to feel uncomfortable. I am just not sure what to think of the thing. It is an old engine so there are imperfections that I see but don't know enough to decide whether I should think into too much or not. I also question the bus's PO and the "rebuild" job that was supposedly done... however many miles ago.
This weekend I will try and take some pictures of a few things and hopefully get some more knowledgable advice. Also, if there is any thought on how to trust the engine short of going to counseling with it I am all ears. I suppose the best way is to drive the thing. Maybe shooting in the dark here but is there anything more than that?
In my opinion,forget anything the PO told you when you bought the bus unless you have written proof from the mechanics and even then no guarantees . Get all the service and maintenance manuals you can get your hands on for your bus, get use to being a mechanic or at least real handy, check and maintain all the systems as best you can or pay someone who will,make sure you have a good road side assistance if needed, take it on a few local trips to get a feel for the bus and last ,stop being a WUSS about it and go for it. If none of this sounds right to you, sell bus and go buy a new trailer. Sorry but welcome to BUS world.
Nelson
ps. If you don't want to drive it they make awesome sheds in the backyard.
Get a good road service plan and put the pedal to the metal!!!!!!
Drive it.
JC
Drive it.
JC
I have had virtually everything in the engine compartment rebuilt or replaced. While everything runs good, I'm always on pins and needles worrying about if the engine quits-mainly because it is so hard to find 2 stroke Detroit mechanics now.
The second thing you could do is learn your engine and work on it your self. Good Luck, TomC
Figured driving it is about the best option.
Thanks TomC- I suppose that I will come to learn with time. Good to know that someone else has had a little nerves about the engine.
Thanks for the advice Nel, I have driven the bus several times around LA traffic over the past year which is an entirely different beast. I am trying to do things smarter not harder and my biggest fear is just damaging the investment (time and money) that is the conversion itself. Like you said, I will have to dedicate my time to studying some service manuals and go through it as best as possible. I guess that while doing the conversion the focus has been on the conversion itself and not much on the engine.
I will probably be moving the bus an hour North in a month or two... I guess we'll see how she handles hills then :o
The old 2 strokes are like some of our wife's you learn what they are saying and where your limitations are :o
Quote from: luvrbus on August 20, 2016, 09:24:31 AM
The old 2 strokes are like some of our wife's you learn what they are saying and where your limitations are :o
I might be in trouble then :P
Some of them can be like trying to solve a rubics cube.
What are we afraid of? We all bought an old vehicle with an old engine or maybe its been updated to a newer old engine. Its got a commercial drive train which is meant to be driven daily which we don't. Things with spaces fill with condensation when they sit and the weather changes back and forth which water is not good for oily things!... :o
You are not afraid of the engine breaking down, as much as what to do when it does/ Not if its when!... :'(
Either you don't understand it enough to fix it yourself or you don't have the money to pay someone to fix it. A lot of us are independently wealthy,... ::) :D
So if #1 study or take some classes to learn how to maintain it. Try yoga or Ti-chi to get rid of the Knot!... ;D
#2 save money and put it away in an account just for repairs and or future rebuild or for a good take out motor to have ready when something bad happens. Figure about $3,000.00 a year to keep her going and if you don't have to use it then it goes toward tires or rebuild etc. ;)
Also yes get Coach.net, good Sam's, AAA,Farmers Etc. or whoever as a roadside service. Most are cheap and well worth it. ;D
When or as you learn , tackle one system at a time. I started with the air system and then electrical system and still haven't finished,LOL but I have learned as I went and from these boards. I am somewhat a Mechanical person but would only attack this thing if it was out of the Bus in my Barn. I do all the maintenance myself. But still don't know all I should about the drive train other than its no different than my truck and car except it is bigger and a lot heavier and the parts are hard to find sometimes and a Bitch to pickup.
I do see a lot of people getting in a hurry or losing interest and then it sits. Try and include all members of the family and make it a project especially if you have kids. They love it. At The ranch we sometimes take the Grand-kids with us to go fill up the fuel tank. Its 3 blocks away but we take the long way and they love it. Sometimes we drive it to go out to breakfast and the looks we get is funny.
If it breaks down on the road the only question even if you can't fix it yourself is do you have road service if yes then you will get to a place where you can do it or they will do it and can you afford it!... That is all any of us are afraid of. That's where that knot in your gut comes from.
Now get out there and learn, Drive it and be a Busnut.....
HTH Dave5Cs
Well said, the only thing I would change is that some of us are independently poor as a result. ;D
Walter agree with that buddy... That,s what I am working on right now on our bus. We discovered somewhere in the plumbing system or other places there is a stuck Check-valve in the Money Drain. Its a slow but steady leak!... :o
Dave
LOL I have a good friend that owns a 2010 Prevost he and his wife purchased new,he is getting gray hair worrying about the 230 gal plastic fuel exploding everytime it makes a sound he ducks
Oh great now i have to worry ever time I pass a 2010 Prevost that the Plastic Fuel tank will do that. Thanks my adding to my list of thing to worry about..... :o
Dave
Hi;
I like the reply, "just drive it" If you drive it It will "talk" to you.
You will hear a creak, a rattle, feel a vibration or something.
Either way it will tell you what or where to look for a problem.
Yes just - - - "drive it"
Merle.
Hello, do regular checks of your fluid levels and get an oil analysis. If it has a gear driven DN50 alternator pull it and change the bearings. Record your oil pressure and coolant temp when the engine is warm. How old are your tires?
When I stop at rest areas I check the hubs, tires, and rear end temp with an IR meter.
Each trip you take without issue will build your confidence.
For my first trips I used to head to vacation areas that were close to Detroit/Allison service centers.
Welcome to the world of buses.
Bandsaw
Bjorn,
Everyone has great advice. I'll add that indeed just like what was said above, every trip you take without issues does indeed build confidence. We worked out some kinks early on with our 9 conversion and after that we just drove it. The coach was amazingly reliable. I have the jitters with our freshly converted 102C3 now because I have zero personal history with it. The stress of owning a bus and living in it Fulltime comes with the territory. You'll find some former bus owners on here that don't miss it at all. Someday when I move into my dream log home, I can tell you without a doubt, I won't miss the stress of owning a bus. But for many years ahead, this will be my family's home so I have steeled my resolve to just keep on keeping on. It's the price we pay for the freedom we have fulltiming in a coach.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Thank you guys, sometimes it helps put the nerves at rest being able to relate to someone else.
Dave- I think you hit the nail on the head. I really appreciate your response.
Luvrbus- thankfully that is not a worry of mine! That is so interesting that the fancy shmancy Prevost would have a plastic fuel tank though. Exterior looks good though.
Bandsaw- I have been checking the fluid regularly and the first thing I bought after getting the bus was a box of Delo 100. So far I haven't had to use any of it. I will work on getting an oil analysis, great suggestion. I will look into the alternator. Oil Pressure and coolant temp has always been good. I am not sure on the age of the tires, they are retreads and for what it is worth the treads are very good. I may just have to make my vacation areas the Detroit/Allison service centers ::)
Merle- I will be listening... I just hope that when it talks I understand! Might be like listening to Lauren, who knows what is going on ??? :P
Scott- Well put. The stress was the unforeseen cost of ownership. It is a mixture of curiosity and stubbornness that keeps me going. Hopefully as I test our A3 it will prove to be as reliable as your 9 was!
It sounds like you are dwelling on the potential issues and not just going out and enjoying the coach. Don't even worry about stuff unless and until it becomes an issue. If the oil is clean, the fuel is clean and the air is clean you have done all you could to treat the engine well.
Now just go out an pay attention to the gauges, the sounds, and the performance. Those are going to establish a benchmark for what is normal, and as you use the coach the stuff you need to pay attention to are deviations from normal. Find out from owners of your model and engine / transmission combination what gauge readings you should see, what your fuel burn (mileage should be), what your oil consumption you should expect, what your air pressures should be, how to do a pre-trip brake check, and then go hit the road.
Even my fancy shmancy Prevost has problems so don't think any coach is bullet proof, but also don't hesitate to drive it just because you might have a problem. And for Pete's sake don't go fixing stuff that ain't broke. But do make yourself a good preventive maintenance plan that does anticipate the life span of the things that are going to shut you down like belts, hoses, air bags, brake chambers, tires, batteries, etc. or have a game plan for if they break while you are on the road.
Jon hit it on the Head!
I always used to worry about the gear driven 50DN alternator in my bus blowing up and destroying the engine, so I removed it and put two fan belt driven alternators-- 12 and 24volt.
Jon did nail it my friend Gary with the 2010 Prevost has lost 2- 14L series 60 in less than 80,000 miles to no fault of his own,the EGR cooked the 1st engine,and the turbo did the 2nd engine in,he just takes in stride there nothing he can do about it except worry about the plastic fuel tank ;D
Quote from: luvrbus on August 21, 2016, 06:52:21 AM
Jon did nail it my friend Gary with the 2010 Prevost has lost 2- 14L series 60 in less than 80,000 miles to no fault of his own,the EGR cooked the 1st engine,and the turbo did the 2nd engine in,he just takes in stride there nothing he can do about it except worry about the plastic fuel tank ;D
I am surprised he still has any $$$ to put fuel into the plastic fuel tank! :D
Quote from: jav9956 on August 21, 2016, 08:04:23 AM
I am surprised he still has any $$$ to put into the plastic fuel tank! :D
No worries as Those Guys with Prevost's are always loaded! ::)
I used to own and drive a taxi in New Orleans. I figured that maintenance and repairs cost an average of $200 per month. That meant that if I went a month with no repair costs, there would be a $400 month coming soon. I think of the bus in a similar way, so when I have to spend something on it at home I feel good because it means that it is less likely that I will have a breakdown on the road.
Now, we that somewhat questionable logic stated, I will note that these machines were not designed to be driven only periodically and maintained by amateurs in their back yards. Further, catastrophic breakdowns can be amazingly expensive, and this has happened to some very long term and experience people on this board. So, with that in mind, take the good advise that has been expressed here by others, but also resign yourself to the possibility that feces can occur. Maybe contemplate what you are willing to spend to fix things in a worst case calamity and have it in reserve, and know at what point it would be better to just walk away.
Obviously, if you have a higher end unit or have put an impressive amount of time and money into it, Your cap will be higher. With this in mind and knowing that my investment in my 5a is a lot more than it is worth, I will need to be more conservative.
With 26 years of ownership under my belt, and detailed records, including a record of every single gallon of fuel that has ever been put in my coaches I can fully agree that maintenance and other costs of ownership need to be recognized and planned for.
Depending on individual circumstances and the type of coach there are going to be expenses relating to insurance, storage, tires, batteries and just about anything made of rubber whether the coach is driven or not.
Tires, air bags, brake chambers and a lot of the suspension valves, and batteries age out. There will be endless debates on here about how long it takes before a tire or air bag or battery has outlived its usefullness, but nobody will disagree that whether you use the coach or not those will eventually need to be replaced. Then there are the relatively minor costs associated with age such as belts and hoses and transmission and engine coolant fluids. They all have a life expressed more in years than mileage.
Then there are the mileage and use associated expenses mostly oil and filter changes, air system maintenance, generator service, etc.
None of the above addresses the unplanned expenses which can range from hub seal service to alternator failures, starters, radiators, turbo, or towing costs if you opt to not follow a preventive maintenance program.
Then there is the house and the costs of refrigerators, water pumps, heating and AC systems, glass, etc.
Since we all have different tolerances for risk and varied amounts of ready cash there is no standard for what it costs to drive a bus, especially since some of the cost is based on luck. There should be no doubt that luck is a factor when someone brags about going cross country on 10 year old tires without a problem and someone else has a 2 year old tire blowout and take about $5000 worth of coach body panels and air bags along with the tire.
If it is any consolation the cost per mile drops like Bill Clinton's fly the more miles you put on the coach per year.
Quote from: muldoonman on August 21, 2016, 09:04:42 AM
No worries as Those Guys with Prevost's are always loaded! ::)
To handle the depreciation of a 1000 bucks a day on a new Prevost coach they have to be loaded ;D
And yet, if you can believe it, some with almost new coaches said they were cutting back on travel when fuel got up to $5.00 per gallon.
Go figure.
That's only because with all the Mirrors they couldn't find all their Benjamin's, in the glare... ;)
Dave
Jon and Lin- Both very good points and nice insights into expectations of cost over time. That is something I will definitely be considering.
My true goal is to buy a piece of property with a few acres outside of Southern California (just a personal opinion, but it is miserable here) and get the bus there to live in while going to graduate school and developing the property... maybe build a house. At that time, just to feed my curiosity, I would like to pull the engine and take it apart (for better or worse) and then attempt a rebuild... I would really have to learn to trust it after that ::). It would be nice to take it out on the road to travel but the primary goal is a livable unit so I can buy a blank piece of land, I just need it to get from where I am to where I am going! We will see how it all plays out. Too stubborn to quit converting the damn thing especially after coming so far :o.
Go buy a cheap 5th wheel travel trailer and park it on the property. You will wish you did that in a relatively short time after you buy the bus.
Quote from: Jon on August 22, 2016, 11:01:54 AM
Go buy a cheap 5th wheel travel trailer and park it on the property. You will wish you did that in a relatively short time after you buy the bus.
too late for that... ???
The hip thing to do nowadays is to buy a tiny house. HA!
It is indeed too late, bus was bought almost a year ago. I didn't want to go with a 5th wheel or an RV, they just didn't feel right. I think we would have been better off with something smaller but for what it is worth the process has been awesome. Part of this project is to learn and we have done a ton of that. Ultimately I am happy with the project. Money wise we could have made a better investment. At 25 years old we have time to make the money back though... I hope :D.
Yes, you have plenty of time to recoup. I told my kids when I die don't even try to recoup the money I invested in our bus, drive it or park it in the field for the grandkids to camp in. My plan for trusting the bus consists of:
*Learning how to diagnose your own problems- You will break down, and it's unlikely a road mechanic will know more than you about what's (generally) wrong. Especially things like wiring. I purchased wiring diagrams as these guys have suggested and wrote in the book any changes I notice or make myself.
*Carry parts and tools- I too worry about my starting and charging system. I plan to someday have some of those hard to find components with me. A left handed 24v starter in the Badlands? Good luck with that one.
*Plan extra time and transportation- I love to read about these guys breaking down and making the most of it. I always leave a couple days extra for breakdowns, and will be dragging a Jeep soon to make it even easier.