Hello, is there anyone who knows the trick for installing a front seal on a Detroit Diesel 6v92TAB? I am concerned with getting the rubber seal centered and on evenly before pushing it backward with the specified tool needed to install it onto the crank and into the front plate fully. I assume there is a way, I have yet to learn it.... Please anyone who can find it in their heart to truly let me know what that trick is i would be overjoyed. I spent 4hrs trying to get it to go on right.
Thank you, your knowledge would be very much appreciated,
Phil
Are you talking about the oil pump seal ?
no Luvrbus, I am talking about the front seal on the camshaft under the pulleys, at the bottom of the motor by the oil pan, the oil pump seal is on the other side of the front plate is it not, i am not sure if thats what you might mean. The seal i mean is a perfect circle with rubber around it and a hole for the camshaft extension (if you look in on mine it has like a gear mesh on it...which houses the bullgear) which fits the harmonic balancer and the huge belt that goes up to the fans for cooling to the engine. I guess thats the best way i can explain it.
Thanks
Phil
You said crank in your post that was confusing because those are so easy to install
the front seal is easy? Seriously i must be stupid to be struggling with it then.. slap me with a stupid stick... I feel real dumb now... what am i doing wrong????? :-X
Lets backup looking at the engine from the front you are talking about the pulley on the right that has 1 hole in it and says 6v92 with 2 pulley groves ?
If it behind that pulley remove the pulley,remove the 3 bolts holding the cam bearing holder to the plate pop it out, press the seal in the holder slide it on the cam then bolt it back with the 3 bolts every thing is lined up install the pulley your done fwiw they are a pain to try to install over the cam
Tis the one! This one is a pain in butt to me. I am doing mine except mine has no harmonic balancer its just a mount for the pulley and it taps on with a groove and bolts to the pulley and the belt goes on that. My harmonic balancer is to the right and says 6V92 on it... but anyways i think it is the right seal we are talking about... hopefully someone will know .. i pray anyways how to install it right.. you have to be exactly perfect too or it will leak.
What is this engine powering ? can you post a photo,where is the pulley in relation to the water pump
The Engine is powering a 1988 MCI 102A3 Bus, that has been fully converted. I had gotten it after the last owner didnt take care of it properly and just drove it. Here are some pics to better explain it these show the pulley and its location the one pic is of the shaft and front seal location taken apart.
thanks
Phil
I wish someone had some good input how to install these types of Front Seals, it is very annoying to me i have gotten stuck at such a point, and i cannot go on without some good input from someone. Im posting a front and back photo of the seal itself..it slides over that shaft sitting at the bottom above the oil pan. The water pump is to the right of it,as it is shown.The pulley mount goes on the shaft with a type of key-way slot and the pulley gets mounted to that. I am thinking most of you have sent it out when it comes to this, i did not have this option as it was leaking oil severely and i didnt want to push it from both the pan and the seal.
I have a hard time following your description. You say the water pump is to the right of the shaft in question, but the water pump is obviously on the far left of the engine in the picture. It looks to me like you are doing the crank seal, the one in the center of the engine and below the central motor mount. If it's like the 8V71, you just tap the seal into the housing, slide the pulley spacer back in, and install the pulley. The seal was very easy for me to install, particularly because you can remove the spacer (which is what the lip of the seal rides on and actually seals against) and slide it back inside the seal after it's in the housing. I would say it's very much harder to do wrong than to do right.
I have no idea what he is asking the seal numbers he is showing the 5115454 is the oil pump seal which easy to replace after he removes the pulleys and keys from the crank, the other 89277747 is the 6v92/71 RH rear main seal that one not so easy especially from the front ;D ;D I hope he doesn't think both seals go in the front
Quote from: bevans6 on August 18, 2016, 03:40:19 AM
I have a hard time following your description. You say the water pump is to the right of the shaft in question, but the water pump is obviously on the far left of the engine in the picture. It looks to me like you are doing the crank seal, the one in the center of the engine and below the central motor mount. If it's like the 8V71, you just tap the seal into the housing, slide the pulley spacer back in, and install the pulley. The seal was very easy for me to install, particularly because you can remove the spacer (which is what the lip of the seal rides on and actually seals against) and slide it back inside the seal after it's in the housing. I would say it's very much harder to do wrong than to do right.
My mistake it was to the left on the water pump,it is the crank seal, they call that the front seal is my understanding, You have the right thing i am asking for, remove the spacer? is it on the crank or on the seal? I get what you mean harder to do wrong then right.. So we are on the right track, sorry for the water pump mistake it is on the left as shown.
Quote from: luvrbus on August 18, 2016, 06:59:10 AM
I have no idea what he is asking the seal numbers he is showing the 5115454 is the oil pump seal which easy to replace after he removes the pulleys and keys from the crank, the other 89277747 is the 6v92/71 RH rear main seal that one not so easy especially from the front ;D ;D I hope he doesn't think both seals go in the front
The seal numbers mean nothing you all call it the crank seal, when i order it the part its called the front seal, it is called that in the Detroit Diesel Manual as well. Oil Pump seal is behind the front plate, thats where the oil pump is located on the reverse side of the front plate, no both do not go in the front, there is only ONE seal that was just what it looked like front and back.... the numbers mean nothing.. once again :)
Quote from: PPark01 on August 17, 2016, 11:23:19 PM
I wish someone had some good input how to install these types of Front Seals, it is very annoying to me i have gotten stuck at such a point, and i cannot go on without some good input from someone. Im posting a front and back photo of the seal itself..it slides over that shaft sitting at the bottom above the oil pan. The water pump is to the right of it,as it is shown.The pulley mount goes on the shaft with a type of key-way slot and the pulley gets mounted to that. I am thinking most of you have sent it out when it comes to this, i did not have this option as it was leaking oil severely and i didnt want to push it from both the pan and the seal.
This is my mistake there is only ONE seal.. i said "Seals" this is a mistake on my part.I did correct myself and wrote front and back of the "seal" itself. When i describe things i sometimes dont catch myself.. I do apologize.
Have it your way man the 2 seals you have the small one is for the oil pump on the front of the engine that is the only seal on the oil pump the other is a rear main seal there is only one I see your oil pump on the front of the engine
Quote from: bevans6 on August 18, 2016, 03:40:19 AM
I have a hard time following your description. You say the water pump is to the right of the shaft in question, but the water pump is obviously on the far left of the engine in the picture. It looks to me like you are doing the crank seal, the one in the center of the engine and below the central motor mount. If it's like the 8V71, you just tap the seal into the housing, slide the pulley spacer back in, and install the pulley. The seal was very easy for me to install, particularly because you can remove the spacer (which is what the lip of the seal rides on and actually seals against) and slide it back inside the seal after it's in the housing. I would say it's very much harder to do wrong than to do right.
This is the correct thing he understands... it is the crank seal so we all are on the same page, when you tap the seal into the housing how do you ensure you are on there correctly? I tried to get it right the rubber fights me a bit, and does not go on correctly, now you say the lip of the seal, and removing the spacer, is this spacer on the shaft or on the seal? Tommorrow i am going to take better pics, i cannot transfer on my Iphone its acting up... so i will add new pics tommorrow that are crystal clear. You can wait to answer until then if you like to be sure we are all talking about the same thing. I will take photos of the brand new part number etc etc...
Quote from: luvrbus on August 18, 2016, 08:18:05 AM
Have it your way man the 2 seals you have the small one is for the oil pump on the front of the engine that is the only seal on the oil pump the other is a rear main seal there is only one I see your oil pump on the front of the engine
I will show you via the Detroit Manual as well.. oil pump seal maybe what you call it, there is a gear mesh if you look into the shaft hole, that is where the oil pump is located behind that, the seal covers that and sits almost flush to another gear in the shaft housing in the front plate, behind that is the oil pump, almost reverse side of the front plate is the oil pump.. right on the crank is the bull gear...so thats what i have, i will show you via the manual tomorrow, maybe you call it something different and its the same?
I have the manuals the oil pump is in section 4 page 2 for that engine ,you remove the 6 bolts and 4 on the front of the oil pan the pump comes off then you remove the screws on the back to change the gears or wear plate and there is a keyed gear on the crank that drives the oil pump,the pump slides over that gear and you can remove the drive with your hand FWIW
good luck
Quote from: luvrbus on August 18, 2016, 08:42:44 AM
I have the manuals the oil pump is in section 4 page 2 for that engine ,you remove the 6 bolts and 4 on the front of the oil pan the pump comes off then you remove the screws on the back to change the gears or wear plate and there is a keyed gear on the crank that drives the oil pump,the pump slides over that gear and you can remove the drive with yo hand FWIW
good luck
Thanks for instructions on the oil pump but that is not what i am after, i will list all pics for you guys tommorrow, actually later today to get it all sorted out
Thanks
Please do close ups it's tough looking at a photo taken from 50 ft away and trying to help you,the reference I made was to show the seal is in the oil pump fwiw.Like Brian stated it is hard to screw that one up
Quote from: luvrbus on August 19, 2016, 07:54:01 AM
Please do close ups it's tough looking at a photo taken from 50 ft away and trying to help you,the reference I made was to show the seal is in the oil pump fwiw.Like Brian stated it is hard to screw that one up
I have taken pics of everything in question as of this point so you know exactly what i am talking about, I am limited to how many pics i can post so if there is confusion i will post more to clarify. I am showing the shaft its location and the inside where the seal sits.I have pics of ONE seal not TWO it is just an extra one in case i mess up. I am listing also the way it mounts to the key and the pulley mount as its assembled. This is the best i can show the seal sits in the shaft hole within the plate against the gears that are meshing. I assume that is the bull-gear or oil pump gears. I am having issues with the rubber on that seal sitting perfectly over the shaft where it will not leak. I am having issues with it sliding on and centering before i push it all the way back against the gear mesh. There is a gear inside the front cover that the front seal rests up on.This seal does differ from the first one i was sent as it looks easier to manage and a different manufacturer. Any input would be appreciated. I had to share the pics offline of this site due to limitations.
https://mega.nz/#!c10mxY7R!bhijkeLvu3mb6CwJdemcP3qzeB2Yy8lPuIjyL263qrA (https://mega.nz/#!c10mxY7R!bhijkeLvu3mb6CwJdemcP3qzeB2Yy8lPuIjyL263qrA)
https://mega.nz/#!c1El3ZJA!86iEYs38ZbadgSU1EoC7JhipmOavqnLhyZ8MRR3Bgyw (https://mega.nz/#!c1El3ZJA!86iEYs38ZbadgSU1EoC7JhipmOavqnLhyZ8MRR3Bgyw)
https://mega.nz/#!hxVHTD6Y!1VSA1Jqf11Cy2Ba6Tkny5eULzC1IjQ-U5JyNwWmheIs (https://mega.nz/#!hxVHTD6Y!1VSA1Jqf11Cy2Ba6Tkny5eULzC1IjQ-U5JyNwWmheIs)
https://mega.nz/#!U5l1GbgQ!Qg8EOoqta1HfjEKX1RDWOeO1jd9AS3VqbXb1OQvs6ZE (https://mega.nz/#!U5l1GbgQ!Qg8EOoqta1HfjEKX1RDWOeO1jd9AS3VqbXb1OQvs6ZE)
https://mega.nz/#!Mg9RWCaa!SexxIFrmTYT5P_Fw346SqIHVZ9J8ssQYJsizi4zDSuA (https://mega.nz/#!Mg9RWCaa!SexxIFrmTYT5P_Fw346SqIHVZ9J8ssQYJsizi4zDSuA)
https://mega.nz/#!MxsHgQ7b!9QxwA0tql8P-JMcwgP8ZPX8uo2B8G_xyem1SIcWCPxc (https://mega.nz/#!MxsHgQ7b!9QxwA0tql8P-JMcwgP8ZPX8uo2B8G_xyem1SIcWCPxc)
https://mega.nz/#!I59TCZbZ!sSapObgBMBy6lPERtZcsu2dILAMe_AXfr_c1fFz2OO8 (https://mega.nz/#!I59TCZbZ!sSapObgBMBy6lPERtZcsu2dILAMe_AXfr_c1fFz2OO8)
https://mega.nz/#!IxFXhRZZ!c4JdBCRSNZT4WdXv75tmweMK1aCLu8Kpk_4NdWl0mSM (https://mega.nz/#!IxFXhRZZ!c4JdBCRSNZT4WdXv75tmweMK1aCLu8Kpk_4NdWl0mSM)
https://mega.nz/#!4l0BmJ4C!1QikAXJoQPuA9KaYpA_zCFXWbwVvChnxzZ82sss-Wjw (https://mega.nz/#!4l0BmJ4C!1QikAXJoQPuA9KaYpA_zCFXWbwVvChnxzZ82sss-Wjw)
https://mega.nz/#!5gdT0CzZ!oiX4LBsIqxDKj44zAyqrvhUTnmrvUbgzbdwriIHCKqw (https://mega.nz/#!5gdT0CzZ!oiX4LBsIqxDKj44zAyqrvhUTnmrvUbgzbdwriIHCKqw)
https://mega.nz/#!ossTjSII!EV9jHkK-ho-1AQTsF6PrBV8DV24fqo32R07sLsc7lNI (https://mega.nz/#!ossTjSII!EV9jHkK-ho-1AQTsF6PrBV8DV24fqo32R07sLsc7lNI)
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Links fixed :)
Phil
Those photos are not accessible to me.
R.J. (Bob) Evans
Quote from: bobofthenorth on August 19, 2016, 12:27:54 PM
Those photos are not accessible to me.
R.J. (Bob) Evans
Thats 2 of us it keeps asking for a key
I have Kent/Moore J 9783 seal installer but you need pull the front oil pump cover off to use it so I never use it ;D.So if he wants to do it by the book he pulls the oil pump and cover off,installs the new oil seal, replace the gasket and bolts the cover/oil pump back to the engine
Quote from: bobofthenorth on August 19, 2016, 12:27:54 PM
Those photos are not accessible to me.
R.J. (Bob) Evans
are you serious one sec...all links should be fine now..
Not working for me either. And I did go against my better judgment and download a random file, from a random website, that offers free 50gb or storage, if you just signup. And I still couldn't see the pic. Off to do a virus scan ;D
Quote from: John316 on August 19, 2016, 02:31:28 PM
Not working for me either. And I did go against my better judgment and download a random file, from a random website, that offers free 50gb or storage, if you just signup. And I still couldn't see the pic. Off to do a virus scan ;D
I have no idea why its not working if the admin would not have an unreasonable limit on picture size we wouldnt be here where we are... i got it with no problem and i was signed out, there are no viruses i did it all on a mac... i just did it blindside and had no issues so i have no idea whats going on..
That is the standard oil pump and cover for the 8v92 or 6v92 mechanical or DDEC like your engine both the 6 and the 8v use the same cover and oil pump except the 8v92 has a harmonic balance which you don't have you have nothing special.
You need to replace the sleeve also for about 60 bucks and there is a o-ring inside the sleeve that needs to be replaced.
You can do it your way but I install the seal in the cover and then install the sleeve the sleeve has a taper and they come in different lengths
Quote from: PPark01 on August 19, 2016, 04:13:19 PM
I have no idea why its not working if the admin would not have an unreasonable limit on picture size we wouldnt be here where we are... i got it with no problem and i was signed out, there are no viruses i did it all on a mac... i just did it blindside and had no issues so i have no idea whats going on..
You need to put your pics on a host..the place you have them requires them to be down loaded...no one is going to do that...being a cyber guru is not the forte' of the majority here...
this one works well... photobucket.com
(http://photobucket.com)
or Facebook...I did it on a Mac tells me a lot :)
I was able to download them. It is a Cloud site. I don't do the cloud but I downloaded it through one of my 3 browsers. There are a bunch of similar pics of his front main shaft sticking out of the front oil pump cover and you can see the gear he is talking about as we know it is his oil pump gear. You need to pull out the seal with a hook pick or seal puller even a L shaped piece of metal will do it,and clean the surface of the seal matting surface and re- install the new seal. What are you having a problem with? It is pretty simple. If you have a larger size socket same size as the seal or piece of pipe with a flat end you can tap it back in then slide the balancer back in making sure the Key is in place and slightly tip down in front make it easier to put it in place. Make sense? HTH ;)
Dave5Cs
Dave, I think he calling the drive gear a bull gear the gear you see is keyed and slides onto the crankshaft to drive the oil pump
Yep I agree with you Clifford, don't see a problem there should just be able to tap it in etc.or am I missing something oh Guru of Buses... ;D
Dave
Quote from: luvrbus on August 19, 2016, 05:06:44 PM
That is the standard oil pump and cover for the 8v92 or 6v92 mechanical or DDEC like your engine both the 6 and the 8v use the same cover and oil pump except the 8v92 has a harmonic balance which you don't have you have nothing special.
You need to replace the sleeve also for about 60 bucks and there is a o-ring inside the sleeve that needs to be replaced.
You can do it your way but I install the seal in the cover and then install the sleeve the sleeve has a taper and they come in different lengths
I get understand where you mean, and i get that the sleeve can be replaced how do you get it off, i have an idea of where the O ring may be. As for the cover coming off the engine mount and bar are in the way(not sure what you call that) you can see it in pic P1090372.JPG the top half cannot clear the bar at all to come off in one piece hence why i am doing this "way" as you call it.. it sucks wish i could do it your way I like to be correct.
Phil
Here Guys I copied one of his pictures for ya'll. ;D By sleeve I think he means the piece around the main crank and he has to take off the oil pump cover to get at it like you were saying.
Dave5Cs
Quote from: Dave5Cs on August 19, 2016, 05:39:58 PM
I was able to download them. It is a Cloud site. I don't do the cloud but I downloaded it through one of my 3 browsers. There are a bunch of similar pics of his front main shaft sticking out of the front oil pump cover and you can see the gear he is talking about as we know it is his oil pump gear. You need to pull out the seal with a hook pick or seal puller even a L shaped piece of metal will do it,and clean the surface of the seal matting surface and re- install the new seal. What are you having a problem with? It is pretty simple. If you have a larger size socket same size as the seal or piece of pipe with a flat end you can tap it back in then slide the balancer back in making sure the Key is in place and slightly tip down in front make it easier to put it in place. Make sense? HTH ;)
Dave5Cs
I got that part all good believe me i was told that from a Two-Cycle mechanic here in Iowa that has been working on em forever.. its that damn rubber center i want to be able to put it on right.. it would go on backwards beautiful but its not correct..it needs to be forwards and around the shaft.. it kept fighting me i would get one edge on and walk it and it would slide back off im like WTH!! i could not get it to center on so i could put it on evenly that is the issue and do as you say.. so i am looking how to start it on evenly and make sure it doesnt leak that is MY issue here.. maybe cause its because im walking it over the sleeve thats my issue??? does that have to come off to insert it right??
Thanks
Phil
Quote from: Dave5Cs on August 19, 2016, 06:35:16 PM
Here Guys I copied one of his pictures for ya'll. ;D By sleeve I think he means the piece around the main crank that has to take off the oil pump cover to get at like you were saying.
Dave5Cs
Thanks Dave i couldnt get em on for the life of me..
Phil
Quote from: Dave5Cs on August 19, 2016, 06:12:12 PM
Yep I agree with you Clifford, don't see a problem there should just be able to tap it in etc.or am I missing something oh Guru of Buses... ;D
Dave
Im starting to think that sleeve has to come off to do this, it did not look like it came off to me that is why i did not attempt it.. :)
Phil
Quote from: Dave5Cs on August 19, 2016, 06:35:16 PM
Here Guys I copied one of his pictures for ya'll. ;D By sleeve I think he means the piece around the main crank and he has to take off the oil pump cover to get at it like you were saying.
Dave5Cs
Its not coming off too far with the mount in the way... that bar going across the motor stops you on the top half from getting it out..
Phil
Sorry this is above my Pay grade. AZ Budda you out there? GoodYear Budda you Copy???
This is Pathfinder Do you Copy??? :o 8)
This ones for you, Dave!
(https://busconversionmagazine.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FDKJhx9l.gif&hash=b9d27703fb51346c421a62bf26ef4a576925e36a)
(https://media.giphy.com/media/hXaEOmktzK2IM/giphy.gif)
(https://busconversionmagazine.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.hilariousgifs.com%2Fkid-cannot-drink-from-fountain.gif&hash=80a45a2f8b29f88a0d5dca0ad7b4d62c5814934c)
Thanks John I was gonna use a spoon in my ear next. As per Lewis Black... :'(
Dave
I don't ever reuse the sleeve ,some flip the sleeve around to have a new wearing surface at the seal so I take a pair of channel locks and twist and pull it off
Quote from: luvrbus on August 19, 2016, 09:06:19 PM
I don't ever reuse the sleeve ,some flip the sleeve around to have a new wearing surface at the seal so I take a pair of channel locks and twist and pull it off
Interesting... >taking notes ..
Quote from: luvrbus on August 19, 2016, 09:06:19 PM
I don't ever reuse the sleeve ,some flip the sleeve around to have a new wearing surface at the seal so I take a pair of channel locks and twist and pull it off
Right there you got the problem solved LUVRBUS!! That was it... channelocks opened the gateway..!! The sleeve did not look like it came off that was the confusion, as soon as i did what you put in the last line it all came into light ... Sleeve came off and i saw what everyone was talking about. I have NEVER done one before only GAS engines. They do not have this sleeve. I am ordering from PC Industries a new sleeve I deal with Troy so he will know what i need by the number that was on the inside. Thank you all very much it was something VERY simple!!! I owe you all one!!!
Phil