It gets a little warm on a hot day going uphill. I would like to cool it a bit.
I see a Eaton/Fuller trans cooler K-1956 in the local classifieds. I could install that between the trans and the engine oil cooler. I have space on the driver's side since I removed the big muffler. What do you think it would do without a fan? I could mount a fan on it if necessary. Or I could place it on the left side radiator. I think I remember Ed H.'s 5A with that arrangement. And Tom C's too.
Or, how about another transmission filter mount on the left side. That would help cool the trans too, no?
And I think I would like a valve (manual, or electric solenoid) to shut that loop off for winter running.
Any advice and ideas welcome.
JC
(https://busconversionmagazine.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fv333%2Ffqdawld%2FPicture021.jpg&hash=0aa3cff901dbcd813b9240d3429d60431510eef2)
does not look like a lot of cooling to me.
further i think the hoses are too under sized.
http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/engines-trannys-t-cases-sale/814713-big-trans-cooler-eaton-fuller-k1956.html (http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/engines-trannys-t-cases-sale/814713-big-trans-cooler-eaton-fuller-k1956.html)
The problem JC is you live in Canada where it is so hot all of the time. You need to move out of there and come to SoCal where it is much cooler or to Vegas where Van lives and you won't have those overheating problems. We don't have those problems down here.
On cars, usually auxiliary transmission oil coolers are installed after the radiator on the fluid return line and mounted in front of the radiator. I do not see why it would be different for the bus.
The 2 filters do help cool the oil,Allison recommends a filter on the supply and return sides in fact they void the warranty on a rebuilt exchange 740 without 2 filters fwiw.
What is your transmission temperature ?, if you have the double double cooler do you have any idea how many plates are on the cores. I always change to the 32 plates for better cooling
This is the cooler you want.
http://www.makcotransmissionparts.com/DB-1292.html (http://www.makcotransmissionparts.com/DB-1292.html)
Thanks Donald, turns out the one I was looking at sold. So that is out of the picture now.
The trans oil temp is usually 180* same as the engine, but goes up to 200* on a hot day, which is probably ok in itself, but it then contributes to the engine heat. So maybe an extra filter would help dissipate some heat.
I would have to look at the engine cooler. I know that it cools the engine oil, and the trans oil. How do I know how many plates it has? Can I tell just by looking? Wouldn't a 32 plate cooler still put the trans heat into the engine cooling system?
I have never overheated. On a hot day going up a hill, or fighting a head wind, I have had to back off the throttle or downshift. Would be ideal if I didn't have to do that.
JC
JC how about putting the 32 plate cooler changeout on and adding the second Tranny filter. Redundancy is a good thing!...
Dave
I'm presently completely replacing my cooling system because my bus has had ever-worsening overheat issues since I bought it, and this year it became so bad that I cannot delay fixing it. One of the things I'll do is install a supplementary remote cooler for the transmission fluid to reduce the heatload into the engine coolant. I've narrowed down my choices to either the Derale 67,000 BTU cooler http://derale.com/products/fluid-coolers/engine/remote-mount/6-pass-series-7000-aluminum-copper-universal-engine-oil-cooler-kit-sandwich-adapter-detail (http://derale.com/products/fluid-coolers/engine/remote-mount/6-pass-series-7000-aluminum-copper-universal-engine-oil-cooler-kit-sandwich-adapter-detail) , or repurposing my present 80,000 BTU rear heater which has to moved anyway. The Derale has -12AN fittings, but I don't know what its actual tube size is - I don't want anything that could restrict the HT740's fluid flow to the engine cooler. My old heater has what looks like 3/4" fittings, so it should be OK? The Derale is $350-ish, but my heater is free! Choices, choices. Whichever I choose, I'll use my old Kysor Alarmstat temperature switch that turns on at about 190 degrees to control the fan(s).
One thing I don't want is anything in front of the radiator. I want maximum airflow through it, with nothing to pre-heat the air. There was a small cooler in front of it for the power steering and hydraulic fan motor, but I'm going to mount it somewhere else. I think it will be OK to just hang it in the natural airflow behind the rear wheels (but out of the path of stones thrown up from the tires!). I hope I won't need to buy another remote cooler with fan for this fluid.
I'm even thinking about completely remaking the radiator door to eliminate the horizontal bars that are now across it, again to minimize any airflow restriction through it. At this stage, anything will help!
John
Quote from: chessie4905 on August 13, 2016, 04:01:16 PM
This is the cooler you want.
http://www.makcotransmissionparts.com/DB-1292.html (http://www.makcotransmissionparts.com/DB-1292.html)
I have that exact cooler as the only cooling device for my MT654. I plumbed it with stainless braided 1" lines and the cooler is mounted in the engine access door across the back of the bus. It may be a tad ugly, but function over form............
The transmission has heated up only a couple of times...while we were navigating the road from Albuquerque through Show Low, AZ on our way to Phoenix. The 6% grades weren't exactly easy on the old girl. Other than that, I don't use any fan forced cooling. There's enough airflow from the engine compartment passing through that it keeps temperatures within a few degrees of the engine coolant.
On Makco, I used the DB-341DC-12 cooler (1" fittings) with thermostatically controlled fan, plus 2-1/16" hole misters on the radiator do the trick on a hot day. Good Luck, TomC
I think I will install an other filter first. On the line to the engine oil cooler. That is on the driver side. I will look for a filter base at the truck parts stores. Does anybody know which one it would be for the Detroit filter P550223? And which line should it go on? One line is just above the transmission pan, and the other is on top of the transmission, near the engine. Both on the driver side. My other filter in on the pass side. I'll see how much of a difference an additional filter makes. It it is not enough, I could do a auxiliary cooler later.
JC
I have the Donaldson parts # P174784 I remember I bought the Baldwin the Donaldson was too pricey for me,Napa can order the heads for you fwiw
Is this the one you need?
http://dieselpro.com/detroit-diesel-parts/6v92-engine-turbo2/oil-pumps-oil-coolers/detroit-diesel-25010854-oil-filter-adapter.html (http://dieselpro.com/detroit-diesel-parts/6v92-engine-turbo2/oil-pumps-oil-coolers/detroit-diesel-25010854-oil-filter-adapter.html)
Dave,he doesn't need that one that model bolts to the block or cooler for engine oil and he doesn't need the base with bypass either he just needs a hydraulic filter base they cost around 50 bucks,I am looking for a number I know I have it some where
Have you ever thought your engine might have cracked heads?
???
I have a filter base off mine but it would probably cost 50 bucks to ship it to you.
Jason
Look in the place you keep things you don't want to lose, LOL ;D
JC, my 5A had 2 tranny coolers. One on each side, mounted about 6 inches in front of the radiators if i remember right.
I changed my cartridge filter to a spin on. The spin on filter says hydraulic filter. You can get a hydraulic filter with different filtering microns. I would get the finest filtering. Good Luck, TomC
You use a 40 micron filter on the return side 15 GPM
What line should I install this new filter on (driver's side). The Allison manual I have does not have details about which is which line to the engine cooler. I am thinking it should go on the line from the trans to the cooler, but is it the lower one or the upper one on the trans?
JC
JC, download the Mechanics Tips published by Allison for the 6 and 700 series (2 separate manuals) one will show the outside plumbing for filters and coolers
I have been looking high and low for that mechanics tips publication. Can't find it anywhere. The Allison site doesn't have anything on the 700 series anymore, that I can see anyway. Anybody have a link?
JC
JC, they were on the United Transmission Exchange site they are probably still there but they changed their web page and I can not find anything now lol
I'll talk with an Allison guy at the dealer in Calgary.
Meanwhile, I kind of want to assume that the flow is from the top of the converter, to the cooler, out of the cooler back to the transmission sump. Wouldn't that make sense?
JC
I was at the Detroit/Allison/MTU dealer: Wajax Power Systems in Calgary this afternoon, and found out, as I was suspecting from the deletion of all information about the 700 series on the Allison web site, that they don't support the 700 series transmissions anymore, other than they still have all the parts for them. They don't have any literature about the HT740 anymore, and won't work on them: they are now obsolete. You can get the parts from them, but, if you don't do the work yourself, you would have to find an indy shop to do it. They couldn't confirm my guess about the flow of oil to and from the shell cooler on the side of the engine. I plan on taking the bus out for a stretch tomorrow and shooting the hoses with the IR gun to confirm that the hot oil comes out of the top of the converter, and returns just above the sump.
JC
JC got 15.00 US on E bay
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Allison-700-Series-Transmission-w-Hydraulic-Controls-Mechanics-Tips-Owners-Book-/361457527550 (http://www.ebay.com/itm/Allison-700-Series-Transmission-w-Hydraulic-Controls-Mechanics-Tips-Owners-Book-/361457527550)
JC, looking from the rear there are 2 outlets on the converter housing the 1 on the right goes to the cooler the one on the left goes to the filter from there to sump
good luck
Thanks Dave. Ordered.
JC
Your welcome my friend. I have the 600 one but it was a free PDF so I went looking but could not find yours for free. Maybe since they stop carrying it at Allison someone jumped on e bay with them.
Dave
The plumbing is in the 600 series Tips manual but the 700 Tips manual is good book to have lol I paid 29.00 ea for mine 20 years ago from Allison
Well then here the free one for the 600 series also in PDF.
Dave
http://manuals.chudov.com/M939-Series-Trucks/Allison-MT-654CR-Transmission/MTB-600-Mechanics-Tips.pdf (http://manuals.chudov.com/M939-Series-Trucks/Allison-MT-654CR-Transmission/MTB-600-Mechanics-Tips.pdf)
Thanks Dave, the plumbing picture confirms what I was thinking: the hot fluid comes out the top of the converter, and returns to the sump.
JC