For several days I've been trying to remove the non-metallic cover plate from the coolant water pump so I can check the impeller for wear and check its nut is tight. I've scraped all around the groove the C-clip sits in to clean out rust, I've sprayed Liquid Wrench all around the groove, I've whacked the cover's four protruding bumps with a rubber mallet and block of wood (I don't want to hit them too hard because they're not metal), and the darn thing still won't budge. I'm guessing it's stuck to the O-ring inside.
Any tips on getting this cover off non-destructively? It's really frustrating when a "simple" job turns out like this.
Thanks, John
An impact wrench may work, but it may also break off the screw. If you can get to it and it is a hex head screw, you can always use a cold chisel to catch one corner of the hex head and with a hammer try to pound the screw head several times so it turns counter-clockwise. This too may break it off too, but at least you should be able to see what is going on a bit better than an impact wrench that covers the entire screw head.
A smoke wrench may work too, but only if you can get to it without starting something on fire. By heating the housing it should free up any rust which almost always works but may ruin the O-ring.
There are better penetrating oils out there than Liquid Wrench. Cliff told me about one recently so maybe he can chime in. If you have a week or so to soak it daily, I would start with that approach as I personally hate having to drill out broken bolts.
It may be best to remove the entire unit and drain the coolant, which will act as a heat sink if you try to heat it then use the smoke wrench to un-freeze the bolt and it should squeak right out. Then use Never Seeze when you assemble it so the next time it will come right out.
I am a big advocate of Never Seeze and I recommend every 5 years that you completely dis-assemble your bus and put it back together using Never Seeze on every bolt then you should never have any problems removing any parts thereafter. It takes about a gallon.
I spray Lime Away around the edges then tap in the middle a few time then tap on the tabs changing direction from side to side then it falls out hits the concrete floor and chips,it will come out fairly easy once you break the build up away
good luck
Hi Gary!
The cover plate I have is a non-metallic material, maybe a fiber-reinforced plastic of some sort or perhaps a molded laminate material, I don't know. For this reason I can't break out the BFH to encourage it to move. This plate is held in place by a big internal C-clip, not the easiest to remove and replace. I'm assuming it's never been removed since the bus was born, so it's probably fused to whatever's inside. If I had some way to measure the flow rate from the pump I would know if the impeller is OK, but I don't so I have to look at it to see if there's any cavitation wear. I'm completely redoing my entire cooling system now - it would be silly to not inspect it at this time.
Thanks, John
PS - You missed a fun Buses Gone Wild get-together this year. All the usual suspects and more, including someone who owns two Embree Crowns! This year's BGW was in memory of Glen Torrey from Mojave (he had six Crowns and a Gillig) who passed away earlier this year. We'll all miss him.
Quote from: luvrbus on August 01, 2016, 11:26:40 AM
I spray Lime Away around the edges then tap in the middle a few time then tap on the tabs changing direction from side to side then it falls out hits the concrete floor and chips,it will come out fairly easy once you break the build up away
good luck
Great suggestion! I'll try that today. I just don't want to whack the plate too hard in case it cracks.
Many thanks, John
John,
If it is a non-metallic cover plate, I would consider sacrificing it and making a pattern and have a new one made up at a sheet metal shop. Most of them should have nibblers that can remove the outside material very quickly or if you are a back yard mechanic you can make your own with a grinder if you have enuf time. The advantage of destroying it is that you will be able to remove the non-metallic material then you can get a good pair of vice grips on the base of the bolt where you have more leverage and you should be able to turn it out.
Or you can probably even make a new non-metallic cover if necessary.
I didn't know about the BGW rally this year, as nobody sent me an announcement to post in the magazine, on our website or on our Facebook page. If someone would send me some pix and an article to publish then I may get even more excited and try even harder to make it next year. :D
I always manage to get the Clip offf by tapping the holes at the end with a small round chisel until.I can shove a small screwdriver in the edge and work the C clip out.
Quote from: Geoff on August 01, 2016, 01:22:41 PM
I always manage to get the Clip offf by tapping the holes at the end with a small round chisel until.I can shove a small screwdriver in the edge and work the C clip out.
I got that clip off, not easily, then had to buy another circlip pliers to put it back on temporarily while I think how to free up the plate. I would have never guessed that such a simple piece of Detroitus could be such a PIA to get off! I'll try Luvrbus's idea of CLR or Lime-Away, or toilet bowl cleaner, or C4, or whatever works.
Aren't buses fun?
Thanks, John
Did you call DD to see how much the plate is, I'd replace it - FWI
Clean the plate with some lacquer thinner and gorilla glue three or four dowels stubs to it. Then pull on them after the glue dries. You'll need to use tape to hold them in p!ace till the glue sets. You can cut most of them off after you get the cover off with a dremel. The rest with a bench grinder
John, do you know what became of the ex Grand Teton Crown tour bus, the blue one that Glenn Torrey had? Is it still there, or? Sorry for the off topic.
The 4 protruding nubs have threaded holes in them. Do you have a slide hammer that holds a screw?
When I first got my MCI9 8v92 I had intermitent over heating problems. The radiators were fresh recores, the fan worked properly, the thermostats were new and all the rubber seals around the radiators were good. But when I pulled the plastic cover off the water pump I found the impeller free to spin on it's shaft as the nut had worked loose. I replaced the nut and washer and never saw the engine over heat again.
Long story longer, don't give up on inspecting the impeller. Jack
Those 4 lugs are to use a big pair of channel locks on to twist the cover to break it loose.I do it that way sometimes when they are really stuck, I never saw one that was threaded on the lugs Geoff
I seem to remember holes in the nubs. If not, I welded vice grips to a nut that fits my slide hammer.
--Geoff
Quote from: Geoff on August 03, 2016, 07:23:02 AM
I seem to remember holes in the nubs. If not, I welded vice grips to a nut that fits my slide hammer.
--Geoff
Each nub has a small hole probably about 1/8" diameter or less, not very deep, and definitely not threaded. Tonight I'll resume my Brute-Force-And-Subtlety approach, using some CLR and a rubber mallet and block of wood. The only reason I don't want to break it is to avoid having to make a trip out to Valley Power to get another one!
Thanks, John
Quote from: Iceni John on August 03, 2016, 07:39:14 AM
Each nub has a small hole probably about 1/8" diameter or less, not very deep, and definitely not threaded. Tonight I'll resume my Brute-Force-And-Subtlety approach, using some CLR and a rubber mallet and block of wood. The only reason I don't want to break it is to avoid having to make a trip out to Valley Power to get another one!
Thanks, John
I never ran across 1 that hard to remove before,I have no idea what that cover would cost but I do know DD charges 12 bucks for the o-ring
How much is a rebuilt water pump?
Quote from: Boomer on August 02, 2016, 05:01:29 PM
John, do you know what became of the ex Grand Teton Crown tour bus, the blue one that Glenn Torrey had? Is it still there, or? Sorry for the off topic.
Yes, the Teton tour is safe and sound at a friend's place, except it has a broken windshield - apparently he had a stash of spare curved Crown windshields so it may not be as bad as it seems to replace it. He has another similar tour Crown that was converted into an RV (sort of), and he also has the high-level 3-axle Atomic from Idaho that's still in original condition. The Teton and the Atomic are both gorgeous - I hope they find a good home. The last I heard was that his widow is still sorting out his estate, so it may be a while until she puts them up for sale.
John
OK, thank you. I did not find out about the auction at Teton a few years back until it was too late. Maybe after a while I could contact his widow? Those were really beautiful buses when they came out of service, only ran in the summer and warehoused in the winter with the coolant drained.
You could drill out the holes in the nubs, thread them, pull plate with bolts, install set screws with sealant into the holes.
Quote from: chessie4905 on August 03, 2016, 03:34:32 PM
You could drill out the holes in the nubs, thread them, pull plate with bolts, install set screws with sealant into the holes.
I could, or I could just whack the heck out of it tonight with furious abandon until either it or I break apart. I WILL NOT be defeated by some crummy piece of plastic! Man is a tool-using animal, so I'll use my opposable thumbs and simian intelligence to show it who's boss. Yeah!
I also got the radiator's tanks and coolant surge tank back from the powder-coater today, so now I've got 88 bolts to get uniformly tightened. The new fan and fan motor are arriving tomorrow - guess what I'll be doing all this weekend. Getting the old fan off the old motor shaft last night was "interesting" - with a gear puller tightened as much as I dare tighten anything made in Taiwan, it still wouldn't budge, so I put some gentle heat onto it and stood well back. After a minute or so there was a loud bang and the fan hub and gear puller flew off several feet. That's when working on buses is rewarding.
Onward and upward.
John
Maybe spraying the center of the cover with freon would shrink it enough to come off.
Maybe spraying the center of the cover with freon would shrink it enough to come off.
Done it! I defeated it by good ol' guile and cunning - I pretended I was working on something else, then I suddenly grabbed one of the lugs with a locking plier and pulled, just like a medieval dentist extracting teeth. I obviously caught it by surprise, and the cover popped right off.
The red O-ring inside looks OK, so I'll clean it and reuse it. As far as I can tell, the impeller also looks OK, but I did snug down its nut slightly tighter - I don't want it trunting* on me down the road. All's good, I hope, so I'll put everything back with some silicone grease on the O-ring. Another job crossed off my list.
Thanks everyone, John
* when a nut backs completely off, as happened to Ol Trunt's water pump.
I was never able to reuse the o-ring John a leak always popped up later and I had to change it good luck on that one
OK, so a trip to Valley Power is in my future! Too bad - I hate having to drive 80 miles to buy an O-ring. Maybe ABC Bus just down the road from here has them? However, the last few times I've been there to ask about parts, they have nothing anymore for 2-strokes.
Will a generic black O-ring not survive the temperature? I can get one of them locally.
Thanks, John
Just call PC Industries in WY 877-855-4724 tell him drop you a 5101160 0-ring in the mail they only cost $2.63 plus mailing there
Great, will do! Thanks so much for all your help and good advice. You're the best!
John