I have an opportunity to get a John Deere HR-G1100 generator... One of those suit case generators.
It only is rated for 1100 watts. Too small for any real loads. But, while I'm running exclusively on my batteries could it also be charging to off set my battery loss?
Anybody already try this foolishness?
Ya, I know it's gas. It has a limited time on the tank, etc. I understand it's an occasional solution, but would it help for a poor man trying to scratch his way through bus life?
The only ones I would fool with are the little Hondas. They are whisper quiet and you'll still be able to get parts or service anywhere in 15 to 20 years. I have a 3000is but it is a little big to carry along. Their 1000 would be nice though. It's small enough and useful when you don't need much power.
Quote from: Tikvah on July 29, 2016, 09:23:39 AM... would it help for a poor man trying to scratch his way through bus life?
Especially if you have a "load sharing" inverter, yes. Say you need 20 amps to run the coffee maker while other loads are on. Your batteries are pretty low. You could put the 1000w (about 8 amp) generator on your system. With load sharing, the system will run the 8 amps from the generator and pull 12 amps from the batteries (all these numbers are probably better expressed and thought of in watts but you get the idea). After the coffee is made, your batteries are pulled down some so the inverter (if it's a sharing, internal charging type) will then take the output of the generator and charge up the batteries. It will probably take 2-3 time longer to recharge the batteries than it took to draw the current out of them, but this will work well.
It depends on your equipment and how much total power you use (if the average power you use is more than the 1000 watts from the generator, it will never catch up). But if you are looking for a small power source to provide a limited supply of power to "top up" your batteries and keep things from running down, it should help.
Do you have a bigger generator for your bigger loads?
Dave,
I like the idea but only if it is very quiet like the Honda genset. John Deere makes some very good equipment however they cheapen certain models which they sell in discount stores like Home Depot etc. So if it came from there I would be leery.
Yes, gas is a pain as it is one more thing to have to deal with and at about .75 gal/8 hrs or so, a 5 gallon can should get you about a week of use.
But the reason many people buy the Honda's is to have a quieter genset to run than their big bus unit, but bottom line they both cost about the same when you figure in you are buying a second genset, gas can, cable lock, filters, oil etc. Then you have to remember to pack it away when you leave each time lest you end up dragging it down the highway which has been done before. But on the plus side, it is not advisable to run your big genset for long periods of time just to charge batteries as they should be run under more of a load as they are designed for.
Bottom Line, if you can get it for the right price, you can't go wrong but if it is loud, please don't camp near my bus. ;D
I still like solar to keep my batteries up as they are much quieter than any genset.
QuoteDo you have a bigger generator for your bigger loads?
Yes, but it's not as quiet as this little 1100
This is very quiet.
I wish I had load sharing, but I don't.
QuoteI still like solar to keep my batteries up as they are much quieter than any genset.
I picture this working almost like a solar charge, but cheaper
Or how about one of these? Do you have kids? Give this to them for Christmas. They will love it!
Related question, do I need to buy a 24v charger, or can I charge through my inverter while still drawing from it, or ???
The generator has A 12v charger output but I don't know the specs. Can I run backward through the equalizer to the 24v?
The 1100 will have a Honda or Subaru engine we have 1 they are quite and 2 gals of gas will run it for 10 hrs
Yes Cliff. I saw your genset that you had since you were a kid. I think it is the first Honda ever built. I think Dave was looking for something a bit smaller. :D
Quote from: luvrbus on July 29, 2016, 10:22:51 AM
The 1100 will have a Honda or Subaru engine we have 1 they are quite and 2 gals of gas will run it for 10 hrs
the spec says a Robin motor...from India maybe ?
doesn't matter... if you have a 1.5 kw inverter to 1 kw then yes you can make coffeee or run a 1200 watt microwave...but you will need a 24v charger...not cheap.
i do know of guys smarter than me who can re gizmo golf cart chargers to 24 or 12v for cheap...like free... probably just not for me :(
QuoteThe 1100 will have a Honda or Subaru engine we have 1 they are quite and 2 gals of gas will run it for 10 hrsQuote
Yup, it's a Subaru
Robyn and Subaru are the same engine Onan uses the Subaru/Robyn engines in their gasoline and propane powered generators up to the 4000 kw
We have and use a Honda 1000. In the AM, if we are dry camping, I will run the large generator to heat the water, etc. But running a 7.5ks generator just to charge the batteries seemed ridiculous, so we got the Honda. It works fine through a 12v smart charger. I once tred it through the inverter/charger and even though the charger was only doing a float charge, it tripped the Honda's breaker. I had asked on this forum for some explanation. There was something I do not remember about the electronics involved. In short, it may or may not work through your inverter/charger. Maybe you could try it with someone else's generator first to see.
The gas tank limitation is not a big deal. There are kits available to even connect the little generator to an outboard motor tank, which means it will really run quite a long time between fill-ups. I would note one thing though. While the 1000 is useful, I have thought that a 2000w would be better since there is more range of what it will do, it not that much heavier, and does not use significantly more fuel. It could even possibly run one AC.
Also, 24v multistage chargers are very commonly used for electric wheelchairs. You may be able to find good deals on them on Craigslist and Ebay. That is what we use for our coach batteries.
Please don't take this the wrong way, but if we wanted to rough it or sacrifice comfort we would go undersize on everything. But we don't.
The object of a bus, apart from the safety aspect is to be able to have a second home on wheels with all of the comforts of home. We want to be cool in the summer, warm in the winter, and have as many creature comforts as we can fit. And to keep them working requires energy, lots of it.
Our generator is 20KW and because of its size we can run our 4 AC units, run the refrigerator, keep our water hot, have plenty of lights, charge our batteries and cook steaks on the electric grille. All at once and for as long as we have fuel, which we burn at a little less than 1/2 gallon per hour.
1100 watts is not enough.
If your object is to use as little energy, especially fossil fuels, as possible you would not drive a bus, none of which are fuel efficient.
Jon,
I think the intent of the thread is a well known debate to purchase a small genset to only charge up the batteries, not to run the frig or A/C units or the H2O heater. Many people carry a second smaller genset around and Honda is the most common one out there because of its low db level.
I have thought of doing this several times myself for the same reason, but I am now leaning towards solar panels because I primary camp where the sunshine's and like a very quiet camping experience.
I have been known to carry a small drum set to put out on my picnic table to keep other RV's from camping too close to me. That is how quiet I like it. I can't play them but bought them at a garage sale really cheap and they tend to keep the area clear around my bus.
Gary
I am sympathetic to that need, but with the current inverter technology and the fact the new inverters can also perform an auto-start function for the generator, which depending on the battery bank size can run only as necessary, often an hour or so to fully charge the batteries while allowing the people using the coach to not have to sacrifice any comfort.
When i "dry camp" I turn the generator on right away and turn it off for quiet hour or when I am ready to hit the road. At the rate I am going I project I will wear it out in about 50 years.
Four big grid-tie solar panels (the cheapest way to buy PV, still well under $1/watt) can produce close to 1000 watts actual power. Along with a suitable charge controller, you will have automatic battery charging all day long and every day the sun shines, which for many folk is almost every day. Running costs are ZERO, maintenance and upkeep is washing them clean of dust and bird poo every month or so, reliability is 100%, noise is ZERO, pollution is ZERO, and operational lifetime is decades at least. Heck, they may be the most reliable thing on the whole bus!
Generators aren't the only way to cultivate and grow your electrons, especially if you don't need many of them.
The many Chinese clones of the small Hondas are variable in quality from so-so to worthless crap - caveat emptor!
John
What about the quality of the Chinese solar panels, are they in the same state? What brands of panels are dependable? :-\
I like the idea of adding a solar panel or two to top off the batteries, but the downside is needing to park in the sun. If we do that we would need to run the generator for AC is this area.
Quote from: DoubleEagle on July 29, 2016, 06:24:19 PM
What about the quality of the Chinese solar panels, are they in the same state? What brands of panels are dependable? :-\
Chinese-made panels have proven to be good quality, probably as good as panels from anywhere else. However, one can sometimes find USA-made panels for the same price. I got Grade B (i.e with cosmetic blemishes such as slightly different-colored cells, but they're still UL-listed) Sharp panels made in USA for about the same price as panels made in the Socialist Workers' Paradise - I think that's a good deal. For use on vehicles, the strength of the frames is important, and the Sharps are slightly better than average in that regard.
Panels now are pretty much a generic commodity item, so most folk choose them by price alone. A few brands use thicker 4mm glass instead of the more common 3.2mm glass, but that doesn't necessarily translate to longer-lasting or more durable, just heavier. It's still a good idea nevertheless to mount each panel in a support frame to take the load off the panel's own frame and glass.
Just don't buy those flexible panels - they deteriorate very quickly. Besides, you should have an air gap under panels to prevent heat buildup, and you can't do that if they're stuck to the roof!
John
I saw a price of $360 per panel times 8= close to $3000? Plus charge controller $$$? That's a good deal of money for a lot of us for battery charging.. Harbor Freight have some that are on sale frequently for some that wish to gain some initial experience.
Btw, does a controller shut off the panels when the batteries are fully charged?
Your inverter will either be charging or inverting, not both at once. 1100 watts (that is probably peak, it might be more like 800 watts continuous if it is named like the Hondas and Yamaha's) will be around 9 amps at 120 volts, so it should run a very decent charger, at least 30 or 45 amps, which should deal with your batteries fairly quickly (unless you have a fully discharged monster house bank or such like that). In other words, a great choice to run a battery charger and some other small 120 volt things.
We just bought a generac q2000 worlds quietest ! We bought it for the times we can't run the kabota because of noise . We bought it couple months ago and it works awesome . 700$ at lowes we also bought it for batteries . We do have a couple of solar panels thinking they would charge batts but not enough yet . We bought the 2000 q after comparing Honda Yamaha and generac. The generac q has been out less than a year . It tells how long it will run on the fuel and what I'm drawing for current really nice generator for the $
Quote from: Beesme on July 30, 2016, 05:52:12 AMWe just bought a generac q2000 worlds quietest ! We bought it for the times we can't run the kabota because of noise . We bought it couple months ago and it works awesome . ..
I've been looking at that Generac; a number of reviews says it is indeed very quiet and a fuel sipper, the down side is that a few complain about reliability and hard starting but people complaining sort of rises to the top like foam on beer -- it's about the first thing you see but it's not always the real story.
I have not seen any comparisons of the Generac and a similarly sized Honda using a sound meter to compare noise levels at equivalent loads. The new small generators use "Eco" technology to drop the rpms for idle and low loads and reduce noise -- that's nice but when you put a load on them (and the load is what we buy them for) they rev up and the sound output increases. The tests I've seen say that the Honda, Yamaha, and Generac put out power that's as clean and up-to-spec as household current and that can be important if you're depending on it to run electronic equipment and electronically-controlled devices.
Every test and review I've seen raves about the reliability and power output of the Honda (and to a very similar extent the similar Yamaha) generators in the 1600 - 3000 watt size, but a little more real world experience with the Generac (and some comparative data on sound levels), it's looking like a good choice to me. And yeah, the price point is looking great, too!
This is a very useful thread. I am getting the opinion that a small quiet generator for charging batteries to give the big generator a break is most cost effective, depending on the time frame. Decent solar panels still cost too much in comparison. They might save money in the long term, but they need lots of mounting brackets that need to be screwed or riveted down causing the potential for leaks, and I wonder how they would do in a hail storm, or react to branches catching on them. They might be more practical out west for dry camping, but when it is hot you might still be running the main generator to keep cool. Maybe some cheap fake solar panels on the roof would keep the environmentalists at bay, or a clever custom paint job, and then run the small stealth generator down below.
I had the same generac for a few weeks and took it back and got a honda 2000. The generac was good on fuel and quiet. It was hard to start when warm, had trouble getting it started after a refuel. It has a hard time starting the swamp cooler (at the off grid house, not in the bus lol), whereas the honda fires it up every time. It is almost as quiet as the honda when the eco throttle is on and the load is low, but noticeably noisier under load. Still pretty quiet though.
My honda will run about 5 hours on a gallon of fuel when charging batteries in bulk mode. The big noisemaker will run about 2.5 hours on a gallon of fuel when just charging batteries. The big one does it in about half the time as the honda because of the output limitations of the honda (2000 watt honda is actually only 1600 watt continuous). So fuel wise its close to a wash either way, but with the big genny I only have to listen to the noise half as long. I used to use the honda for charging batteries on cloudy days, but its so much easier to just push a button and never even have to go outside, especially if its raining or cold.
The down side to all the small generators like the Honda and others if you don't take care of the crappy fuel we get now the tanks rust through and the CARB compliance fuel system you can buy another generator for the price of repairs.
I have saw bills at our local Honda dealer ( a friend)for over $500.00 for repairs caused by fuel on the little things and the parts are big $$$,Honda has minimum parts order my friend has to order at least $150.00 worth of parts each order or they will not send them
The problem with Honda parts is when you go to a Honda Dealer to get them - you get gouged. I have bought Honda carburetors from aftermarket suppliers for Honda mowers and snowblowers for under $30. They were made in China, but are in plastic bags with the Honda name and stock number on them. It could very well be that the latest and greatest models have parts available through Honda only, but I would always do a search first. Nothing is worse than paying way too much for exactly the same part. I wonder if the markup in price makes the dealer pay too much as well.
Honda does gouge the dealers and they pass it on,Carl showed me a fuel filter from Honda almost 4 bucks he buys the same filter aftermarket for $.80 and you cannot tell the difference in the 2.He also said Honda is now getting terrible about paying for warranty work
You cannot have too much money. You can never be too thin. And you cannot have too much generator power.
If you want to be comfortable running all the AC units you can put on a coach, run a refrigerator, an electric stove and grill, a HW tank, etc. put in a diesel powered generator. It will last forever and run almost trouble free its entire life.
The noise is because they need a sound box. The box needs sound deadening material and if it is done right the AC units are going to make more noise than the generator.
The ideal coach is all diesel, all electric.
One generator is enough. I don't get why you would want a separate small generator. You would have to burn a lot of fuel in the big built-in genny to offset the savings of using a small one. Then there is the hassle of having to pack it along with you, and take it out to use it, have a gas can for it, etc.
As for solar panels, they are great if the bus came with them, like mine. But I probably would not put them on a bus I was building. They only work when the sun is high and bright. They don't work when parked in the shade, or in the winter when the sun is low.
Just make the big genny quiet in a good enclosure, and use it when needed.
JC
All good points JC. But you live up in Canada where the sun never shines. Move to California then you can take advantage of the sun. ;-)
Thanks for all the input, suggestions, and opinions.
I think, if I can, I'm going to get the tiny generator and find a 30amp 24v charger, and use it when it makes sense.
Know any good deals on a 30a charger?
Quote from: lostagain on July 30, 2016, 12:04:36 PM
The ideal coach is all diesel, all electric.
As for solar panels, they are great if the bus came with them, like mine. But I probably would not put them on a bus I was building. They only work when the sun is high and bright. They don't work when parked in the shade, or in the winter when the sun is low.
Just make the big genny quiet in a good enclosure, and use it when needed.
JC
Or covered with snow ;D
QuoteThe ideal coach is all diesel, all electric.
Wouldn't it be fun if everything was ideal? :)
My coach isn't ideal, but it's mine and I really like it.
It's a lot like me, not ideal, but pretty nice just the same
I have been carrying a Honda EU2000i as a backup generator on my annual big trip for several years now.
I bring an extra generator because I had major trouble with the brushes on my big diesel generator for a few years. One year I had to get power from a neighboring RV to keep the refrigerator running. I spent about eight hours working in a cramped six inch wide space to fix my generator instead of enjoying my trip. The year after that fiasco I added a slide to my generator. No more problems with the generator since I added the slide, knock on wood.
Quote from: chessie4905 on July 30, 2016, 02:21:35 AM
I saw a price of $360 per panel times 8= close to $3000? Plus charge controller $$$? That's a good deal of money for a lot of us for battery charging.. Harbor Freight have some that are on sale frequently for some that wish to gain some initial experience.
Btw, does a controller shut off the panels when the batteries are fully charged?
Yikes! You should be paying less than $200 for a grid-tie panel (about 250W). The deals are out there.
John
Quote from: luvrbus on July 30, 2016, 08:07:42 AM
The down side to all the small generators like the Honda and others if you don't take care of the crappy fuel we get now the tanks rust through and the CARB compliance fuel system you can buy another generator for the price of repairs.
I have saw bills at our local Honda dealer ( a friend)for over $500.00 for repairs caused by fuel on the little things and the parts are big $$$,Honda has minimum parts order my friend has to order at least $150.00 worth of parts each order or they will not send them
If you convert your gasoline generator to propane, then the quality of available gasoline won't matter any more. I converted my emergencies-only Champion 3.5kW to propane, and it starts and runs as well as before - for the 5 hours or less I run it each year propane is ideal. I now think of it as a propane generator that can also run on gasoline if needed. I drained the tank, fuel line and carb, so now there's nothing in it to cause problems. Easy!
John
We have a 3800W Onan propane generator in the Trek it does real good, burns clean and always starts.Only draw back it sucks propane under a load like with the roof it uses almost 1 GPH
Quote from: luvrbus on July 30, 2016, 08:08:24 PMWe have a 3800W Onan propane generator in the Trek it does real good, burns clean and always starts.Only draw back it sucks propane under a load like with the roof it uses almost 1 GPH
Ouch. Yeah, propane has low BTU/gallon versus diesel and gasoline. There are always tradeoffs and compromises. I'm seeing more "non-ethanol" gas available around here (N Carolina, S Carolina, Virginia) these days - used to be just at boat docks and similar places; that and "Stabil" should help but I just don't like the results you get with modern gasoline.
http://www.powertechgenerators.com/pages/cd8000si (http://www.powertechgenerators.com/pages/cd8000si)
I see new S/S RV's with Kubota propane powered generators when using a gasoline engine we have a neighbor that has one
Tikvah, when I said the ideal coach is all diesel and electric, that is what I wish I had, if I ever build one or buy another one. Ours came with a fairly large propane tank that feeds the generator, the furnace, the water heater and the cook stove. Like the majority of RVs. It all works good. The generator is a built-in 6.5 KW Honda that starts (from upstairs) and runs really well and serves our needs just fine. What I have against propane is that it can be hard to find on the road when travelling away from the interstates where you can count on FlyingJ to have it. The small towns out of the way can be a challenge. Another con is the space the propane tank(s) use up. In the end, we all make do with what the bus came with, and how we modify it to suit our needs. Once in a while, I fantasize about how I will get a late model MCI and build us the ideal coach. But I come to my senses and see that our 5C is good enough...
All the best.
JC
JC,
Well said. :)
Quote from: Tikvah on July 31, 2016, 08:37:27 AM
JC,
Well said. :)
JC has the best looking 5C on the road and with plenty of power that one would hard to improve on ;D
Thanks Clifford. I look forward to seeing your D3. Enjoy the relative cool in Idaho.
JC
John, I do raise a flag of caution on running the Hondas on propane. Google a little and you'll find a nice thread online about a guy who did that and burned his Honda eu3000is generator out prematurely. Higher heat? Not sure. We have twin EU3000is gennies on a slideout and love them. Plastic gas tank. Insanely quiet. Easy drain carb with a clear hose running out bottom of unit so you can drain carb for storage. With just the fridge and lights, they will run almost 20 hours in ECO mode on 3.1 gallons of fuel. If I just need to run the fridge and chest freezer and water heater, I'll just let one run. If I need more juice, I'll fire up the second unit. I have a parallel kit installed that lets them intelligently share the load. And if one ever takes a dive, I have a spare to limp along until I get the dead one repaired. Next gen will be a super quiet diesel just so I can pull off the main tank, but for now, these twin Honda inverter gennies produce the cleanest pure sine wave power quietly and efficiently of any other gas gennie out there. Google the sine wave output of these, it's actually cleaner than the utility company power at your house. (https://busconversionmagazine.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fuploads.tapatalk-cdn.com%2F20160801%2Fb23c310adf24d169a18546c197d9f5a5.jpg&hash=702691c12d69048d2ad6053a3193c2a3ece1362e)
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Scott, that seems like an efficient setup. Do you have it exhausted so it can be used on the road?
Quote from: Tikvah on July 29, 2016, 09:23:39 AM
I have an opportunity to get a John Deere HR-G1100 generator... One of those suit case generators.
It only is rated for 1100 watts. Too small for any real loads. But, while I'm running exclusively on my batteries could it also be charging to off set my battery loss?
Anybody already try this foolishness?
Ya, I know it's gas. It has a limited time on the tank, etc. I understand it's an occasional solution, but would it help for a poor man trying to scratch his way through bus life?
I lived off the grid like that for two years and I found the Honda 2000 the very best, and it runs for nearly 20 hours on just under 1 gallon of gas so I was able to use it pretty much around the clock without much cost, however if you're going to have a very low blood and working off of your batteries I would suggest put in that money into solar and changing out your 12 volt light bulbs for the LED 12 volt light bulbs, they have them on Amazon.
I would stay away from any other generator, as you will not find a better generator then the Honda 2004 the Honda 3000 with electric start, but if you're set on the Honda 2000 you can look on youtube and do a search for Honda 2000 electric start, there is a guy on there who has engineer take it that you can put on your Honda mm that makes it electric start by remote key fob oh, also you might want to look into engineering yourself a means of automatically draining the oil and replacing it as if it comes tedious and it is something you absolutely have to do every 50 hours with this small motor
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Quote from: Hcklbery on August 01, 2016, 09:04:40 AM
I lived off the grid like that for two years and I found the Honda 2000 the very best, and it runs for nearly 20 hours on just under 1 gallon of gas so I was able to use it pretty much around the clock without much cost, however if you're going to have a very low blood and working off of your batteries I would suggest put in that money into solar and changing out your 12 volt light bulbs for the LED 12 volt light bulbs, they have them on Amazon.
I would stay away from any other generator, as you will not find a better generator then the Honda 2004 the Honda 3000 with electric start, but if you're set on the Honda 2000 you can look on youtube and do a search for Honda 2000 electric start, there is a guy on there who has engineer take it that you can put on your Honda mm that makes it electric start by remote key fob oh, also you might want to look into engineering yourself a means of automatically draining the oil and replacing it as if it comes tedious and it is something you absolutely have to do every 50 hours with this small motor
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Yours will run 20 hours on a gallon? Mine will only run 10 and thats consistent with what the manual says. Whats your secret?
Ok how many hours will the little Honda engine on the generator last if you use it everyday,they sell for close to a 1000 bucks each I just trying to figure out what the replacement cost or pro rated cost would be.
I have some Honda engines like the 10hp on my pressure washer as good as Hondas are they don't last forever.
The water cooled Hondas were good up to 2 to 3 thousand hrs then they fell all to pieces.I am thinking running a load on the 2000 you maybe get a 1000 hrs from one.I have seen them with less than a 1000 hrs in a box for repairs
Quote from: Scott Bennett on August 01, 2016, 04:04:38 AM
John, I do raise a flag of caution on running the Hondas on propane. Google a little and you'll find a nice thread online about a guy who did that and burned his Honda eu3000is generator out prematurely. Higher heat? Not sure.
Yes, I've also heard of that happening. Some folk think the timing should be adjusted when running on propane, other folk suggest changing to different spark plugs, so I don't know what's best to do. As I've run my generator for less than half an hour so far this year, I guess it's not the most pressing issue for me to take care of right now!
One thing I did notice is that the exhaust drips a lot more water when using propane than when using gasoline. I did however scientifically and exhaustively (sic) test this water - it doesn't taste too bad! If I run out of water in the desert I can just run the generator and lie under the exhaust with my mouth open.
John
I have well over 1000 hours on my 2000 and it still runs like new. Only thing i have ever done is change the oil, and not near as often as i should. Probably 300 to 400 hours between changes. Yeah i know i know it should be changed a lot more frequent then that.
I bought one of the dometic 3000 inverter generators year before last when they hit the market and everyone was raving about them. Noisier than the honda and at less than 100 hours blew a hole in the valve cover when something obviously let loose. Got it replaced under warranty is the only reason i still have one. Dometic stopped selling them after only a year. Biggest piece of junk i have ever owned.
Quote from: thomasinnv on August 01, 2016, 12:07:29 PM
I have well over 1000 hours on my 2000 and it still runs like new. Only thing i have ever done is change the oil, and not near as often as i should. Probably 300 to 400 hours between changes. Yeah i know i know it should be changed a lot more frequent then that.
My manual says you should remove the head every 300 hrs to remove build up.changing oil every 300 or 400 hrs you have base line to go by way to Derrick :o I can't get that much run time from a Honda
I think that synthetic oil would be appropriate in these small engines for longer life, especially the air cooled ones. They are not as robust as Allison transmissions. Scott should run regular oil in one, and synthetic in the other. We will be grateful to know the results.
Another note about the Honda's and similar portable generators. They are very reasonably priced and are very quiet, but they are not designed like the Wrico or Engine Power Source gensets that are built to run for extended periods of time under a full load all day for several days in a row. Just like a Stick-N-Staple motorhome is not designed to run 24/7/365 like a bus. A SNS just won't ride as nice or stand up the rigors of continually going down the road like a bus which is like your house being in a constant earthquake. Honda's are designed to run a few show lights for booths at fairs and maybe for tent people who need some extra lights and other places like that and they do a great job of it. But to use one to run or supplement a RV genset in a bus is really false economy.
The RV and commercial gensets are heavy duty for a reason, and I have listened to some that were insulated well enough with the exhaust covered with Engine Heat Protection wet blankets and built in almost soundproof enclosures that sound almost as quite as the Honda's. So If I were to build a new bus or upgrade my genset, I would definitely put my money into a good RV style diesel genset and insulate it very well and stick with one fuel supply and use that genset for everything. Furthermore you can't beat a diesel engine for longetivey, which is why we all like the big diesel engines pushing our buses.
There are several articles about soundproofing a genset so it sounds more like a Honda in one of my favorite magazines. Let me think a bit. I think it is called Bus Conversion Magazine. Check it out. :D
Btw, I've run Mobil 1 extended performance in both Hondas since day 1. Will remove heads and clean carbon next summer. But FYI, Honda replacement engine for my units is $250. Cheap.
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Scott,will 1 Honda 2000 run your roof top I cannot make mine run a roof top it says 2000w surge and 1600w continuous and it has 2-20amp plugs.I wouldn't remove the head just take a spray bottle with water and spray about a pint through it running and the carbon is gone then they look like new on the inside.I did that on my 6.5 Onan for years I never removed the heads and we even had real gasoline then
Cliff he has 3000 hondas. My 2000 will not run my roof ac. My 3000 struggles to start it, not even close with the 2000.
Quote from: thomasinnv on August 02, 2016, 09:51:53 AM
Cliff he has 3000 hondas. My 2000 will not run my roof ac. My 3000 struggles to start it, not even close with the 2000.
We have a 2800w Onan Mircolite in the camper van it starts and runs the Carrier roof top fine once the Ac is up and running you can even use the microwave but it loads it up lol.Why did Honda put 2-20 amp plugs on the 2000 ?
Cliff i have no idea because it even says right next to the plug on mine "maximum 13.8 amps". Maybe because of the surge capacity? When i fire up the swamp cooler in the house it will pull 25 amps for about a second or two. Been a good little generator. My 3000 will start the ac just fine on a cold start but if the ac has been running previously then i have to let it cool down for at least 5 minutes or it wont start. Head pressure probably has a lot to do with it.
Quote from: thomasinnv on August 02, 2016, 09:51:53 AM
Cliff he has 3000 hondas. My 2000 will not run my roof ac. My 3000 struggles to start it, not even close with the 2000.
Thanks I thought he had 2000w,the price of 2 -3000w Hondas would go a long way on a low hr used 7.5 or 8kw diesel generator
I am wanting take out my gas burner and replace it with a diesel this winter but having a hard time finding a package unit that will fit in the ac compartment. Most boxed units i am finding to be 24 inches or deeper and thats about 1/2 inch or so too much. Might have to look at modifying the compartment or the door.
I'll check when I go to Phoenix the guy is trying to shut down his business AZ RV Salvage we bought 2 -10kw low hr Kohler not in the shroud box I paid him 6 grand for both they were both from Tiffin's mounted up front on slides.
With the 45 ft bus you are going to need a 15kw I always had a 12.5kw for 3 roof tops lol I tried a 10kw for about a week and the boss was not happy in a hot bus
I have run all 3 roof airs on my 7.5 but that doesn't leave much power for anything else. 2 will usually keep it comfy until it gets over 100 then 3 keeps it nice. I was thinking i might be able to shoehorn a powertech in there but a good used set would be good and save some bucks.
Quote from: luvrbus on August 02, 2016, 09:21:14 AM
Scott,will 1 Honda 2000 run your roof top I cannot make mine run a roof top it says 2000w surge and 1600w continuous and it has 2-20amp plugs.I wouldn't remove the head just take a spray bottle with water and spray about a pint through it running and the carbon is gone then they look like new on the inside.I did that on my 6.5 Onan for years I never removed the heads and we even had real gasoline then
There's a few things you need to consider.
All these generators are rated at maximum output not normal output.
So the 2000 Honda is actually around 1800 with a maximum of 2000 which is not recommended for sustained use.
Secondly the Honda's are designed to be connected together to double the overall range of output.
So two 2000 Gensets would in real life application be a sustainable output of 3600 Watts but fuel consumption would be prohibitive if that output range is you desired normal usage.
Last is once your normal range of output is determined than the gen selected should rate that output at 1/4 of it's peak sustainable range, This reduces wear and allows the gen to meet your normal range of needed output at it's maximum fuel efficiency range of operation and coast along at 1/4 of it's ability.
This then is the factor that determines the need to buy the next larger genset that it be able to meet your expected normal range of output at it's 1/4 of it's sustainable peak output.
The Logic of thought is first determine your desired normal sustained output level then work backward from there to determine the best genset for your needs.
I.E.
Say your sustained usage is 300 to 400 watts or apprx 1/4 of a Honda 2000 which in reality has a sustainable top range of about 1800 Watts.
Since with the Honda the best fuel consumption is below the half mark of it's top range which is around 400 Watts than it best fits a normal usage demand of around that 400 Watt range.
If this is your normal usage range but with a larger need periodically than two Honda gensets 2000 Watts may be the best approach.
They can be hooked together to double your output and you can alternate their usage during normal range 1/4 output to give one a rest thus doubling your hours of usage before major engine overhaul is required.
You also have a backup should one break down and if at purchase you get the 2yr maintenance plan you can alternate them so you always have one running while the other is being maintained.
This platform design only is sensible if you expect a very low range of wattage need of around 200 to 400.
Otherwise the need to always change the oil and the other high maintenance that comes with these smaller engines is just to demanding for the benefit they give, which is very appealing at 20 hrs for 1gallon of gas at 300-400 watts even if you do have to change their oil every 50 hrs and no electric start unless you purchase the kit that converts it to an electric start.
https://youtu.be/baz52drnnmg
Trust me, unless the range of output is low than the Honda 3000 is best and they also can be connected together to double their Wattage and they are electric start, which may not sound important now but believe that electric start is real handy.
I went through a few years of living like this, tweaking it and researching etc.
Hope this helps.
Quote from: thomasinnv on August 01, 2016, 09:11:26 AM
Yours will run 20 hours on a gallon? Mine will only run 10 and thats consistent with what the manual says. Whats your secret?
I ran it at 1/4 or 200 to 400 Watts for the recommended duration for engine breakin time than changed the oil to Castrol Full Syntec and continued using it at 1/4 it's rated max output and stayed with the castrol syntec which has a friction reducing component.
This oil reduces the friction so fuel consumption goes up and the engine will remain undamaged if it should run low on oil or overheat etc and change the spark as recommended.
I used it to charge my batteries and use my electronic devices, TV, Computer, WIFI Bridge, etc.
I'd park a quarter mile or so from a hotel and get free wifi and watch movies or the news on my flat screen all connected through the computer.
This demand was then apprx 400 watts and a range of gen output that made the gen run at near idle when charging the batts and at idle when not.
I can easily run my roof air on one generator. With both gennies running I can run both roof airs and then some
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Our primary power is an Onan 6.5 kw. It consumes a little over a gal/hr on most our needs.
Our secondary power is a Power Source 800 watt that cost us new on ebay - $288.
It runs our 40 amp charger easily which fully charges 2 separate battery banks (+ & - grnd.) on less than a 1/2 gal.
We use it a lot more than the Onan in Alaska where there is no need for air conditioning any time of year!