I'm on Ian's band bus helping drive some long stints. Here are the symptoms;
Cruising at any speed, the engine stop light comes on for 20 seconds and engine dies.
Sometimes restarts in gear on 3rd or 4th try.
Sometimes you need to shift if into neutral to get it to restart.
Stop engine light flashes during failed restarts.
Oil pressure and water temps normal during this process.
Low on power went light is off.
Almost no power when light is on.
Engine shuts off when light flashes.
Engine is mechanical but must have some working alarm stat
No smoke from exhaust at all. Used to puff when starting off under full throttle.
*May* have started with the addition of fuel conditioner about 1000 miles ago.
Open to suggestions. Will have time to look for problems when we get to the next venue.
Thanks!
You don't say what kind of engine/transmission. Assuming it is a Detroit 2 stroke, I am guessing screwy wiring related to the shut down system. Turn the shut down cylinder away from the lever on top of the governor for now. That happened to me once. It was wiring at the Skinner valve for the shut down.
JC
Yes, the Skinner Valve for the fuel shut-off is the first thing to check. There are two, one for fuel shut-off, and one for fast idle.
Series 60 with a HT740. I serviced the tranny about a month ago and the engine & tranny felt great. Good power and smooth shifts (after i changed the filters and ATF).
Thanks guys. Id be all over the skinner valve if it were a 2 stroke! It's getting worse as I type.
When the stop engine light is on but not flashing, if you get out of the throttle completely for about 20 seconds the light will go out and power is restored.
No codes ? go with your gut feeling on fuel supply then check the power from the battery to the ECM
We havent counted the flashes because we're driving.
Ok, it just died again. Stopped counting at 26 flashes. No obvious codes.
Cliff, do you know the spin on fuel filter numbers?
Mine are DD 5206 and 5207
Quote from: luvrbus on July 01, 2016, 08:02:45 AM
Mine are DD 5206 and 5207
Thank you. We've got 40 minutes to go, then we can shut it down and start looking. Its been a long run! Engine has quit about 50 times.
Bad, corroded grounds will shut you down. Look in the electrical panels, wherever they are on an Eagle. I had the same symptoms in a MCI D3 with S60. It was corroded grounds
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We are parked at the venue. I'll take a look back there after I defrag for a few. Im thinking water temp sensor / switch or oil pressure shut down switch.
I'll see if I can find some fuel filters locally. And filter wrench. And a gallon of fuel.
Quote from: OneLapper on July 01, 2016, 09:51:28 AM
We are parked at the venue. I'll take a look back there after I defrag for a few. Im thinking water temp sensor / switch or oil pressure shut down switch.
I'll see if I can find some fuel filters locally. And filter wrench. And a gallon of fuel.
low coolant would be my first look....
Quote from: eagle19952 on July 01, 2016, 01:32:32 PM
low coolant would be my first look....
I agree. Coolant in surge tank can be sucked into engine cooling loop below the low coolant sensor to trigger shutdown. It then can expand back into the surge tank and be high enough to allow a restart. Don't ask me how I know ;D
Quote from: eagle19952 on July 01, 2016, 01:32:32 PM
low coolant would be my first look....
He would have the code 43 for low coolant, code 26 is a low ground on the auxiliary shut down system
You said you put fuel conditioner in 1,000 miles ago. That stuff can clean a lot of crudd out of your fuel system. Start by changing the filter. Happened on my big truck recently!
I'm on board with coolant level, has to be the #1 reason for engine shutdown, the low power feeling is probably the engine in limp mode FWIW
Mark - Im pretty sure its the shutdown system. You said you were in a mechanical so Im guessing no ecm. Can you take the shutdown system offline and run it? Then youll know where to start.
I had similar issues on my bus and the shutdown system was mounted right above the turbo exhaust and the sticker on it that said "dont mount in the engine bay or near a heat source" was browned and peeling off the unit...
-Sean
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Yesterday I changed the fuel filters. That restored the power.
I added about a half gallon of coolant to the surge tank. That didn't solve the issue.
I looked at every sensor wire I could find. What I did find was a DDEC IV ECU that has most of the wires cut off. It also said "8 cylinder" next to DDEC IV! This 60 must be missing two cylinders!
When I first start it up I can get 20-30 minutes of driving without it shutting down. The stop engine light may come on several times tho. After that it shuts off every 3 to 6 minutes. While rolling, it takes 2-4 key cycles to clear the flashing stop engine light and restart the engine.
I don't have what I need for tools. And the venues are picky about what you do to the bus. Dont spill diesel when changing filters!!!! The other tour bus driver told me there is a $7k fine if any spilled.
That's probably part of the problem, it came with a two-cycle, got changed to a 60 Series, and there are parts of both still around. You probably need an appropriate 60 Series manual, or guidance from someone who has gone through the switch in an Eagle. Is there any knowledge of who installed the engine?
Are you checking the codes with the cruise switch? If the light is flashing it must have a code. Sometimes there is a separate fault switch but most of the time you turn the key on, cruise switch off, push and hold the set/resume switch down until it starts to flash. Then count flashes. There will be a longer pause of the light between the numbers of the code and a longer pause between codes. Most are two didgit codes. I can tell what each code is for but I won't be back in the shop till Monday.
Mark - try and figure out whats causing the engine light to come on. Maybe if you can wiggle some wires while someone sits in the drivers seat looking at the engine light and lets you know when it goes off. Maybe pull wires from each sensor...
Youll figure it out. Your a freakin monster when it comes to this stuff.
-Sean
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He is on track all he needs to find is what is causing code 26 the auxiliary 1 or 2 shut down to be active that could be just the air intake.He is not dead in the water because 26 is not a circuital code more of a hair puller finding the cause, codes 43,44,45,51 and 53 then he is dead in water
good luck Mark
All ECM 4 say 8 cal., that doesn't mean it can't be programed for 4 or 6 cal. If you are getting a stop engine light you are dead in the water. Any truck shop will have a reader to tell you what is going on. You could guess for ever and never come up with a fix for the problem.
Jack
All the cut wires could be because of the engine prior application like for the transmission.The reason for 8 is because a DDEC ECM will only work up to the max of 8 cylinders,like a 12V92 it takes 2 ECMs to run (double trouble)
I thought I seen mention they stopped counting at 26 flashes, like they got tired and busy during the pull off and restart.
Most times fuel wont set a code, unless its a high pressure oil pump problem throwing a signal and they seem rare doing that just a hi or low sometimes? as they clear themselves pita.
I carried a "pro" cookie sheet I obtained from a baker, it was like 18"x24" worked good for venues as this, set a couple towels in it.
So its tough getting a feel for power avail but knowing something like low power "and lights flashing" not sure that one of these starts before the other. so assume same start time
Does this unit have a fuel heater / filter mount for one or more filters, or any mounting having a wire going to the "top" of it? not really the bottom one for water sense. just curious
Ecm fuse connections get heated and the terminals expand to be a issue as this, and some times just the slightest glaze coating screw up the connection. you would be surprised! how often, use dielectric.
good day there
Floyd
This might be an unrelated long shot, but was the engine pressure spray washed anytime recently? The trucking company I used to work for had an overly enthusiastic mechanic/fueler who would spray every part of the engine bay and we would have mysterious problems with the ECM where the computer had to be reset multiple times because of shutdown warnings (on Cummins ISX). After he left for another job, the problems went away. Moisture in the wrong spot can do bad things.
Very long shot. Fuel starvation? Did the engine swappers change out all the rubber fuel lines? Do you have rubber fuel lines or are they all steel to steel?
If all changed out and if they are the proper diameter and if you have tested for hot temp fuel flow to the engine, then ignore the rest of this post.
If you have old rubber fuel lines consider changing them all out for the next larger size. Physically test first present hot temp fuel flow. Do not spill any.
I do not know how much fuel goes in and out of a Series 60. You may have little flow back to the tank. Or very little under hard engine use. Fuel goes both directions.
We made it back to Chicago yesterday morning. I never had a chance to get into working on the bus. The schedule didn't lend itself to making that happen. And the venues don't let you work on them. Any how...
The engine still cuts out. The only bright side to it is that this was it's last tour for quite some time. Ian purchased a nice Prevost and picks it up tomw. The Eagle is going to Jefferson's for some rehab work.
I'll update this when the solve the problem
Mark