Hello everyone, I'm new and starting on the bus conversion journey. My first decision is probably the biggest decision. I need to decide on an eagle or prevost le mirage. These are really the only two I like as I want my conversion to look more like a tour bus than an RV.
It may all boil down to personal preference, but I need some fresh thinking. I've done quite a bit of research on both, but I haven't been able to find too much information on some items.
I'm fully aware of possible rust issues on eagles but I know they can be an issue on the le mirage. I intend to get one with no or very little rust. Clean it up and treat it to prevent it.
Ride quality, I know torsilastic is smooth and I know the air ride is smooth, but is one really noticeably better than the other?
Also I can't seem to find any specs online between say a model 15 and a le mirage, which has more headroom from the factory?
Any other differences I'm not thinking of would be helpful.
I know this isn't going to answer your question, but..... Why are you planning on doing a conversion instead of buying one? It will cost much more to do one from scratch than buying one and remodeling it to your tastes. So many people get started, run out of money, and their dream ends. Prices are good on completed conversions and remodeling doesn't cost that much.
Don and Cary
Grace,
I'm going to jump right in here, with something that I see as a very big deal. Eagles are old. You have to know how to get parts for them. You can call up Prevost, and place an order, if needed. Plus, I have yet to work on an eagle, that I find easy to work on.
If you love working on antique cars, consider the eagle. Me personally, I do not like working on old vehicles. I would totally go the newer Prevost route.
And yes. I STRONGLY suggest buying a conversion. I will never convert another bus. It takes WAY too much time.
Cheers and welcome!
John
John did you say "You cannot call up Prevost, and place an order, if needed." I have a 91 XL and they can get any part you want if your pocketbook is large enough. ;D
I have owned both brands,you can usually buy a Model 15 Eagle on a motor home chassis which has more headroom with a factory conversion,rust free with low mileage well cared for cheaper than you can convert one.
Me for the same vintage year I would go for a Eagle to convert plenty of parts around for a model 15 new or used,fwiw nothing rides like a Eagle or has the curb appeal IMO
Hi gracep9, why are you not considering a MCI? Stainless steel running gear, 102C3 and beyond came with more headroom, y ou could start with a smailler bus conversion, until you know what you want and need, I would definitely get a south western bus, for rust reasons, that was never a passenger bus, that is 102" wide, has plumbing, electrical, ACs in. But besides that any bus will do...lvmci...
If you are financilly serious, don't even mess with an Eagle. Torsilastic is expensive to rebuild. How long will those parts still be available? At least airbags are used a lot and are relatively inexpensive and easy to replace. And drop boxes...siding....windshields......But many owners love them like GMC's but both are out of business and many parts will slowly dry up as the years pass. Early Eagles rust;on a quiet night you can hear the rust bugs munching away if you stand near one. Probably the deciding factor is how much money are we talking. The others are right;go find one already converted. Much cheaper in the long run.Plus if your conversion skills turn out to be sub par,could be impossible to sell except at a greater loss than we see. Try to get one without a tired driveline and worn out chassis/ tires. You can drop a small fortune taking care of those issues. You can shovel your money into the bus conversion pit up front or the whole time of ownership. Just remember that a lot of rust is in the wall structure behind the siding, not just underneath.
if (and there are) there is an Eagle with 1 inch of adjustment left on the torsilatics... and you intend to drive less than 20,000 miles annually... the eagle will out live you..
And you will own a classic with the best ride out there.
A 1000 entertainers wish they could still have one.
The Eagles 01 made in 60's are the Eagles hard to find parts for the 05,10,15 and 20 are not that hard to find parts for plus a Eagle you can upgrade the engine and transmission so easy in a Eagle and cooling is never a problem.
Quote from: muldoonman on May 18, 2016, 05:10:44 PM
John did you say "You cannot call up Prevost, and place an order, if needed." I have a 91 XL and they can get any part you want if your pocketbook is large enough. ;D
Thanks. I was typing too quickly. Fixed.
Quote from: lvmci on May 18, 2016, 05:34:15 PM
Hi gracep9, why are you not considering a MCI? Stainless steel running gear, 102C3 and beyond came with more headroom, y ou could start with a smailler bus conversion, until you know what you want and need, I would definitely get a south western bus, for rust reasons, that was never a passenger bus, that is 102" wide, has plumbing, electrical, ACs in. But besides that any bus will do...lvmci...
h
I'm not going the MCI route because I don't care for the styling of the MCI.
The fact that you have focused on either an Eagle or Prevost indicates to me that you are also concerned about good looks, rather than just practicality. These are the two most attractive coaches (sorry MCI, GMC fans) in my opinion. As far as interior height goes, the stock older Eagles are about 6' 3" and up, but any conversion of either may be increased by 6-12". Getting an already completed conversion is the best value, you can always modify it to suit you if you want. It is not really necessary to start from scratch. Torsilastic suspension is the best available for good cornering and soft ride, in my opinion, and the opinion of many hundreds of entertainers that appreciated not rolling out of bed when going around a corner. Setra coaches in Mexico use it as well. If there is adjustment left as was mentioned, it will last a long time. The Eagle frame is the most easily modified and repaired of all the buses. Check Dave Galey's books on bus conversions. Yes, Eagles are no longer made, but they are still loved, and there are parts around, and some good ones for sale. The newer Prevosts are excellent coaches, and that is what the stars use now, but they will cost serious bucks.
There are Eagles out there with zero rust in them. I know because I own one, with bare frame photo documentation to prove it. Not the norm though, for sure.
Quote from: Boomer on May 18, 2016, 08:09:27 PM
There are Eagles out there with zero rust in them. I know because I own one, with bare frame photo documentation to prove it. Not the norm though, for sure.
Which points out that the Eagles that are remaining after all these years, are the best ones!
Thanks for all the replies. I'm planning on going conversion route as I want to have exactly every single part I want and where I want it without having to rip out someone else's design, just a blank slate. Due to the layout I want I'd have to end up stripping it down to bare shell anyways except for maybe the genset. If I go with something already done I'll have to wait a number of years just to purchase it, then rip it apart, and then save up for a number more year to put it back together with new parts. It makes sense to me to spend less on a shell now and take 4 - 5yrs getting the parts I want, rather than to save up for 5yrs to buy a bus with a bunch of stuff I'll just end up spending more to replace, spending more money and much more time. Now If I could find an entertainer for about the same cost as a passenger shell, I'll certainly go that route to save the effort of skinning the side windows and reworking the coach door on the eagle. But some of these already done look like crap and they want an arm and a leg for them.
Yes, I'm well studied on the rust issues. The only eagle I want is a model 15 which weren't as bad as earlier models for rust, but certainly still can rust.
Again, my main questions are ride quality difference between a model 15 and a le mirage, is it really noticeable either way?
And headroom, which has more headroom from factory? Because I do not intend to raise the roof.
I have a 1989 Prevost that was a charter bus out of California so no problems with any rust but interior height is only 76" so if you are trying to duct the air and put in recessed lighting then this will not work unless you are very short. I did not raise roof or skin the sides I just left the original windows and covered them up on the inside. The air bag suspension rides great with no issues except an air bag blew out at an rv park one weekend so I just had all eight replaced. I wasn't able to do the work so it was expensive. I still work full time so it has been a conversion in progress for the last 10 years. Should be 95% finished by summer 2017. You never mentioned how much you are willing to spend on the initial purchase. Cheap is not always the best way to go. Get one with an automatic and a newer four stroke engine. Last night Ebay has some entertainers fairly inexpensive. Good luck on your find and remember the board has a lot of good information.
This may not be a popular answer, but anyone that really believes they will convert a coach so it can be exactly the way they want has no clear understanding of how impossible that will be. First, if you can find a professional conversion you will get the collected design ideas from people who have been doing conversions for years and have made all the possible mistakes. Unless you have a lifetime of experience using a coach, your conversion, if it ever gets finished will have a book full of things you will change "the next time".
Buy one already converted. That way you get all the parts and pieces, then after you have used it long enough to really know what you think you want, gut it, rearrange it, or modify it.
In the long run starting with a completed conversion is going to save you a whole lot of money and time.
Quote from: Jon on May 19, 2016, 04:18:28 AM
This may not be a popular answer, but anyone that really believes they will convert a coach so it can be exactly the way they want has no clear understanding of how impossible that will be. First, if you can find a professional conversion you will get the collected design ideas from people who have been doing conversions for years and have made all the possible mistakes. Unless you have a lifetime of experience using a coach, your conversion, if it ever gets finished will have a book full of things you will change "the next time".
Buy one already converted. That way you get all the parts and pieces, then after you have used it long enough to really know what you think you want, gut it, rearrange it, or modify it.
In the long run starting with a completed conversion is going to save you a whole lot of money and time.
Very correct. It is wonderful and creative to have your own ideas come to pass in your own coach, but in reality there are only a few basic design layouts that will work. The time you envision that it will take you to complete your coach could be easily doubled or tripled in reality. If you can find a quality conversion or original entertainer coach that meets your needs, it will be far better economically and will get you on the road quicker. The details that are buried in a quality conversion done by professionals make a real difference, that is why they cost hundreds of thousands. My Eagle entertainer was done by a Nashville converter when it was fresh from the factory with a factory single-piece door and driver's A/C. There are lead sheets built into the floor as a sound barrier, a three-ton A/C & electric furnace with air distribution throughout the coach with duct work, custom leather seats and sofas, etc. The conversions done by Custom Coach in Columbus, Ohio (sold out to another company at a different location) are very detailed and high quality. Their floors could include lead sheets and cork sheets mixed in with plywood under tile or marble. There are other converters that have put out wonderful conversions that have lasted for decades, and with care, will continue to. We understand your desire to do it your way, that is what I did with my first Eagle, but since we all have a limited time on earth, speed up the process and benefit from the knowledge of others, and get on the road. At the least, do what Scott Bennett is doing currently after he came across a partially converted MCI at a very good price. He is benefiting from the solid groundwork of another, and is building it the way he wants it. In any event, it is your money and time, you will have decide what is best for you, but listen to those who have been through it.
The 15 entertainers were a 9 inch raise from the factory if you can find one. What eagle 19952 said is true. When I finished my 05 there was about 1 1/2 inches of adjustment left. That was 12 years and 150,000 miles ago. I did raise it about 1/2 inch before we went to Alaska last year. I do keep it raised when not in use. If the front end parts are in good shape and well maintained they will last a long time.Try and not overload the front end that will help save front end parts. If you have a stick-to-it attitude then by all means convert one. It will take more time and money than you are planning on.The best looking bus on the road is the Eagle JMO. It is hard to beat the ride of an Eagle.
Wayne
I love my Eagles great buses if Eagle made a 45 ft bus you could turn around in 2 football fields I would still have a Eagle
I might as well put in my two cents.
I converted an 05 Eagle myself and it took 3 years to get it on the road. I liked the layout and the coach road and drove good ( nothing rides like an Eagle). When I traded for the second coach it was Built by Hoffman on a new 102C3 shell that was made for a motorhome. My coach was built to sell for about $500,000 in 1992, I paid about $.10 on the dollar when I bought it. That is when it was finished, the shell was built in Nov. of 1990.
If you are not going to raise the roof and want some head room you have no choice other than getting a coach built for a motorhome. I know how you fell about your own design, because that was what i wanted to do when I built my first coach. Been there done that, never again.
Jack
I just have to jump in here to give you just a little insight to consider. I bought our 1973 05 Eagle in 2002 for $30.000!! At that time buses were selling way way over priced but you had to pay the price to find one if it was your dream to convert a bus and it was mine. Well, I will make this as short as I can but you know me.
I have been working on this bus, off and on, for (14 years now)!!!!!! Reread what I just wrote here. The framing on my bus was so rotted after pressure washing the undercarriage I choose to replace the entire framing from the floor down to the ground. This was a great decision on my part for safety as out of 100% of the frame I ended up replacing 99% of it as you have no idea when metal starts to rust (and it will) just how much of your framing will be unsafe, and in only a few years.
I sometimes get very discouraged and just take time away and go on a trip with our 13' Scamp trailer, like in 2014 we went to Alaska for 78 days. I thought this long break would give me back the drive I had at the beginning of my conversion project. Well that does not last very long when the cost of everything just becomes a real PIA. Nothing hardly under $1,000, nothing. You may have to replace your radiator, air compressor, install power steering if you do not have any, install automatic transmission if you have a 4 speed spicer, and the cost of the metal to replace in your framing is out of this world. The cost of replacing the air system and converting from DD3 brake system to spring break as about $2,000 for all new DOT brass fittings, and the new spring break valves needed and Dot air lines was about $1200 just to give you a figure!!
I purchased this bus for $30,000 originally, (a figure I used to be ashamed to admit) but now willing to do to ("influence others wishing to do this to consider getting a bus already converted")!! After your potential bus purchase is inspected by knowing people of buses that you can enjoy your bus as you dreamed of and not get involved in a lengthy, time consuming, costly, Not Injury free either, project. If you are not really handy with welding, electrical, plumbing, & mechanical repair and maintenance of your bus then you better stick with buying a Fiat!. But to continue with my estimate costs of everything I replaced so far it has been $30,000 purchase and (ABOUT) $50,000 for metal tubing, brand new Air system and all new valves and fittings, new brakes, new power steering and all the air system & power steering plumbing. Thanks to Manny he gave me a near new air compressor off his old motor and I can't remember all else right now I wish to include in this post but the list is long. To show you how much welding it took to replace my undercarriage to make my metal framing way better than new I used, (24 -10 Lb. rolls of Mig wire and 200# of stick weld!!!!!!!!!!! My knees are shot, my spirit is at a down time low to finish. MY health is giving me major pain in daily working on the bus. If you are near my age, (71), forget a project such as this but remember I started this adventure at 57 years old, (14 very long years ago).
Now I can go on and on about pitfalls etc. on my particular project, I cannot just give up now as I have had so many people, vendors etc. that have supported me and sold me merchandise to continue my project at their price. I feel I owe completing this project to them as well as my wife and family but now it is taking longer to reach the end because of health etc. BUT I WILL COMPLETE GETTING OUR EAGLE REALLY TO AT LEAST BE DRIVEABLE AND USEABLE.
My advise and I am hanging myself out here being nearly naked admitting all this stuff and way, way much more is to help you decide to get a completed couch, being of the newest year you can afford, have it inspected completely before purchase and then buy it and enjoy it as is. You will still have some minor repairs at times I am absolutely sure but you do not have to spend 14 years of your life on and off making it useable because the previous owner absolutely knew I was a greenhorn, and sold me a POS to work with. But it no longer is a POS but at what cost??
To do a conversion you need "DEEP POCKETS", no matter what any naysayers here may say. But if you do have deep pockets, why not go get a coach that is complete, is in great shape and the prices to purchase a bus is now way more reasonable. You can get a nice coach for between $30-60,000, get one as NEW in years as you can!! You will spend way more than that on a conversion you make, I promise you. You can live with the lay out of a coach professionally converted I am sure, don't go raising roofs etc. and things that will just make your life a living hell at times. If you believe you may have to do this work alone, add way way more time than you anticipate working on it.
I hope not to offend anyone here with this post, it is just an eye awakener I hope will stay in your mind when getting ready to jump in this hobby. I wish you all luck, hopefully better than mine, and if you see me at a campground when we are in our Eagle, come on over and let me know I helped you make a great decision to look for the best pre-converted coach ever and you are enjoying it to the max. That will be the reward to me for helping you see reality and I will truly feel my job to help others was done. See you on the road one day soon I hope.
Gary is right about the need for deep pockets, you can pay now, or later. Thanks Gary for telling us about your conversion journey, your suffering will help others. ;D
Eagles are too old, too susceptible to chassis rust, and while they ride well, have no means to self adjust or manually level the bus like you do with air suspension. Prevost has to curvy of side walls and personally don't like the snooty persona they have. If I were doing another bus, it would be a D model MCI with Series 60 engine. 6'10" headroom, flat side walls, huge windows, wide set air suspension for stable ride and leveling capability, stainless chassis below windows, etc.
Just buy a pre converted bus. Believe me-it takes at least 2 years of work just to get to the point of starting to rebuild the interior after tearing out seats, stripping the interior, insulating, placing plumbing and electrical, etc. It is a gigantic job that will take 3 times longer and twice as much money as you think. Too many used buses already converted out there to consider starting from scratch. Make sure the bus has the engine/transmission you want, and secondly a Diesel generator. Good Luck, TomC
Tom, you summed it up way better and SHORTER than me. Thanks
I can understand the vision of doing it all yourself, and if the joy you are looking for is doing the work, developing the skills, and the pride of accomplishment--that's the way to go. However, if you want to get the most use for a reasonable investment in time and money, a converted coach is the way. One of the things you said makes me wonder about what your budget is and if it is realistic or not. How much do you plan to spend on a shell? Considering that good converted coaches can be had for even less than 30k (a member of this board recently sold his for 25k almost immediately after putting 35k into a new engine, etc.! If you only spend a couple of thousand on a shell, expect to spend many times that just getting it to be roadworthy.
Interestingly enough, the advise you would have gotten on this board several years ago would have been quite different, but most have adapted to the new reality in the bus market.
I wish you luck, just keep it in mind these old buses are on the market because of the revenue when one cost more to maintain than it produces in revenue it ends ups on the market for some poor guy to purchase.
Jon has it right buy your self a bus that has always been a RV low mileage chassis and running gear and 98% of the time well maintain, but we all do it our way
Quote from: TomC on May 19, 2016, 10:01:42 AM
Prevost has to curvy of side walls and personally don't like the snooty persona they have. Good Luck, TomC
Snooty huh! ;D
Quote from: TomC on May 19, 2016, 10:01:42 AM
Eagles are too old
Tom, Eagles are younger than me, and they are newer than some of the other buses that people convert. As long as they look good to a lot of people, they will be sought after. I believe it is still the only bus to be mentioned in a country song (George Jones).
For what its worth I did my conversion my way and did it in a little over a year.
Would I do it again, HELL NO!!!!!!!!
Wes
How can an inanimate object, such as a bus, have a personality? Or did you mean their owners, lol.
Ted
I'm a Prevost owner and I am so stuck up I won't even talk to myself.
I have a Prevost bus with all the side windows still there, just covered them up on the inside as needed. The only way you can probably tell it is a motorhome is all the stuff attached to the roof. I would probably never go to or be invited to a Prevost Proud gathering because I look to much like a bus and not a million $$ plus coach. Would I do it again NOT ! Too old and takes to much time when working full time. Mortgage was paid off so we did not want to take out a 15 year loan so we chose to do it this way, spend as you go, has worked out good so far. If I did do it now it would be a Prevost H45, series 60/B500. Huge bays flat windows etc.
No offense at all intended to anyone here, I am going to try to answer the OP's actual question:
I have been in a lot of eagles and Prevosts. I've ridden in Sean shanks eagle (his is nice and rust free) and I like both of them. Prevosts are really nice if you are going for a slightly more modern look and feel...definitely nice coaches. They ride well from everything anyone has ever said about them. The Eagles ride really nice too. Suspension isn't air bags so you never have to deal with air leakdown. But if you want to have a leveling system you'll need hydraulic levelers installed. You'll find more Prevosts in nice rust free condition than you will Eagles. But Eagles are timelessly beautiful. Really they are.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Quote from: goldgiter on May 19, 2016, 04:19:34 PMFor what its worth I did my conversion my way and did it in a little over a year.
Would I do it again, HELL NO!!!!!!!! Wes
Same here (except for the "one year" part).
Quote from: scanzel on May 20, 2016, 04:00:42 AM
I have a Prevost bus with all the side windows still there, just covered them up on the inside as needed. The only way you can probably tell it is a motorhome is all the stuff attached to the roof. I would probably never go to or be invited to a Prevost Proud gathering because I look to much like a bus and not a million $$ plus coach. Would I do it again NOT ! Too old and takes to much time when working full time. Mortgage was paid off so we did not want to take out a 15 year loan so we chose to do it this way, spend as you go, has worked out good so far. If I did do it now it would be a Prevost H45, series 60/B500. Huge bays flat windows etc.
Steve, you are a member of Prevost Community and you are encouraged to come to our rallies. We encompass every group of Prevost owners and our tolerance for BS is extremely limited. We don't take ourselves seriously.
Quote from: Jon on May 20, 2016, 07:46:37 AM
Steve, you are a member of Prevost Community and you are encouraged to come to our rallies. We encompass every group of Prevost owners and our tolerance for BS is extremely limited. We don't take ourselves seriously.
Yeah Steve, just remember to buy and wear a smoking jacket at all prevost events. Tie optional. ;D
There are @$#-oles with all kind of buses. Their loss if they don't want to converse with me. The bus selection should depend on what you find in the market and you $$$ tolerance. Prevost parts and service reps are available,just a call away. I would have one of each. I would try to get a 60 series and Allison if budget allows. you can go camping with a air mattress ,porta poddy and coleman stove. Enjoy the ride!! If you need help on basics just ask.. We all have screwed up so can help minimize that .
Phil - Want some non-biased info on both Prevosts and Eagles by several different people? I will provide you with tons of info that will help you narrow down your choice. Purchase these 26 print issues of Bus Conversion Magazine we have left in stock for $100 which include all issues with Eagles and Provost in them and I will toss in free S&H. Then by next week you will have tons of info at your disposal to help you make your decision. Email or call me if you are interested at Gary@BusConversions.com or 657 221 0432. This is some excellent reading and all of these magazines are like new.
Prevost Articles
1999 Jun Michael Kadletz 2000 H3 - 45 Prevost
1999 Aug Garret Shanks Angola Coach & the Snow Castle 2000 45' Prevost H3-45
1999 Nov Mike Kadletz The Prevost Prestige - Where It All Started
2003 Oct Annette Martin The Trials of a Bus Nut and a Bus Widow (The Conversion of a
1987 Prevost LeMirage XL)
2006 May John O'Keefe 1990 Prevost LeMirage XL
2006 Nov Mary Barton This Prevost XLs Not So Extreme Makeover
2013 Feb Bruce and Linda Fay Prevost H3-40 Conversion
2014 Jul Dale Houston Prevost XL Gone Country
Eagle Articles
1999 Jan Richard Kuisey Building Up A Drivers - Up Eagle
1999 Jun Michael Kadletz Shell Review: Eagle Model 10 Suburban
1999 Aug Garret Shanks My Grandparents Eagle 5
2000 Apr David Gregory Re-Powering A 1964 Eagle
2000 Jun Eberhard Schreck 1967 Eagle 01
2000 Jul Mike Kadletz Eagles: Some Pros and Cons
2000 Oct C.A. Howard This Ones a Keeper: 1976 Eagle 05
2001 Feb Eberhard Schreck The Wounded Eagle
2001 Apr Mark Rosenthal The Man Who Could Have any Bus (The ABC's of This '79 Eagle 05)
2002 Sep Lloyd and Wilda Koepke Building the Eagle's Nest (Converting a 1979 Bluebird)
2003 Oct Unknown Wayne Schell's 1972 Eagle 05
2003 Dec Cecil McClure Reality Exceeding the Vision (The Conversion of our 1988 Eagle
Model 15)
2004 Jan James Lowe From an Ugly Duckling to a Castle on Wheels (The Conversion of a
1989 Eagle 20)
2004 Feb David Anderson Curing the Bus Nut Disease (The Conversion of our 1985 Houston
Metro Eagle 10)
2005 Jan Corrie Bumann 1984 Eagle Model 10 ("Alotta")
2005 Nov Jan Corbin The Odyssey - 1982 Eagle Model 10
2006 Mar Michael Kadletz The Eagle: Pro's and Con's
2006 Apr Charlie Brown 1978 Eagle 03
2007 Apr Gary Kennedy The Eagle Soars Again in Europe
2009 Oct Dan Lenz Eagle Suspension and Alignment Procedure
2009 Nov Dan Lenz Part 2: Eagle Suspension and Alignment Procedure
2010 Jun Wendy Crosby Full Steam Ahead...The Steamin' Eagle
2010 Oct Paul Lawry How to Fix an Eagle With a Weak Wing
2014 Jan Wayward Wulf Converting a Model 10 Eagle
2014 Mar Cary McCart Call of the Eagle
2014 Apr Bruce Fay Iron Horse - Wild West Elegance - Model 10 Eagle
2015 Aug/Sep Gary Hatt Eagle Radiator Repair
2016 Apr Bruce Fay A 1969 Model 07 Eagle Conversion
Thanks to everyone for the replys. A number of you asked me about $$$ encouraging me to go with an entertainer and remodel. I might very well do that, but I have seen some low prices recently on good shell busses. I've recently come across some model 15's one had motor and trans recent rebuild no rust issues in great shape it was less than $8k. Another with minor rust issues, but new torsilastic on all 4 corners and strong running motor for $7k. And there's been some others. A decent Prevost le mirage shell with good power train I've seen in the $12-15k range.
I just know that buying an entertainer, I'll be paying for old RV toilets, sinks, holding tanks, labor, etc, so at a minimum I'll be in at 25-30k just as a starting point. If I can get a model 15 with a good power train, good suspension, and no rust issues to speak of, for less than 10k the next 20k will go a good ways to get me closer to where I want to be instead of starting out at 30k just to gut it and start over. I know that I'll spend more than that for the whole project, but I'm not spending $150k on a bus, not even close.
I've been researching parts, design, conversion, etc, exhaustively for over a year now, so I have a pretty good idea that the project will take me 3+ yrs and a good chunk of money. I can do plumbing, electrical, carpentry, etc... So I am confident I can do it. My layout will be a bit different not drastically, but enough that the inside would need to be mostly gutted. Hybrid between entertainer and RV, entertainer has too many bunks, RV tends to not have any but some do. Entertainer kitchen is too small, most rv's do too much kitchen. For me, front 1/3rd of bus living and kitchen, then hall with bunks on one side, bathroom and shower room on the other side. Bedroom in rear with another bath and another shower. So my layout is a bit different, two bath, two shower. Showers separate from baths.
My questions in the original thread were due to not having personally ridden in and examined a model 15 and a le mirage, I wanted to know personal experience with ride quality and headroom. We aren't tall people so we don't need a raised roof, but still factory headroom is a factor in the decision. I know I can research them all day long, but that's no match for getting on the bus, seeing it in person, and going for a ride. But I am surprised, since this is a bus conversion board, I didn't know there would be so many against doing conversions. I know of at least one guy that decided to go the pre-converted route and remodel, but he soon became frustrated that he seemed to be just ripping out a conversion just to re-do it all again.
And yes I've been looking online and have seen some try to do conversions and the stuff they've been doing, I just shake my head. I will take my time and do it right, but I'm a very particular kind of person and detail is very important to me.
A Eagle is by far the easiest to convert,if you can find a Freedom Enterprise model 15 Eagle from Columbus In.it will have a Cummins engine and will be well cared for under his watch some even have Stainless siding.
There are some 15's out there with 60 series I heard Bollman maybe selling his off they will be 94, 95 or 96 models.When it comes to converting you will love the Eagle 12V system
good luck
Quote from: luvrbus on May 20, 2016, 01:39:11 PM
A Eagle is by far the easiest to convert,if you can find a Freedom model 15 Eagle from Columbus In.it will have a Cummins engine and will be well cared for under his watch some even have Stainless siding
I know a lot of folks that swear by the DD and wouldn't have a Cummins. You prefer the Cummins?
Yeah, blanking out the windows on the le mirage with metal is certainly more of a challenge than the eagle, but the prevost does have the one piece coach door, so that part is a bit easier than an eagle. The auto adjusting and leveling airbag suspension is also very attractive to me. Torsilastic may be a bit better ride, but it just sounds like more maintence to me, and more individual repair cost rather than the smaller cost of airbags spread out. I certainly love the look of the Eagle, and my wife prefers it too, I just wonder if the torsilastic suspension is just amazing enough to justify its manual adjustment and replacement cost.
A M11 in Freedoms coaches are not a bad engine they were electronic over 400 hp and the fuel mileage is good around 8.5 mpg on my buddies x Freedom model 15.In your search you are going find Eagles can have a CAT,Cummins,Detroit both 2 stroke or 4 stroke .That is a good feature about a Eagle bus you can install about any engine in a Eagle you are not limited
Quote from: Phil on May 20, 2016, 01:29:49 PM
But I am surprised, since this is a bus conversion board, I didn't know there would be so many against doing conversions.
Hahaha... yes, strange, yet true...
The swamps and fields of the continent are strewn in partially done conversions... all started with a gleam in the eye and the couple still talking... relationships destroyed, bank accounts emptied, children crying, hopes and dreams crushed flat like a squirrel on the interstate...
You don't convert a bus to go camping.
You don't convert a bus to go driving.
You convert a bus, to convert a bus.
Only these last ones are happy.
Be sure to warn any significant others who may think is about #1 or #2.
happy coaching!
buswarrior
Hello, We did our conversion for some of your reasons. We wanted it done our way and did look at getting a previously done unit but after looking at a gut job to change things we didn't like the math was better in getting a seated coach. The big ? in doing a conversion your self to me is your talent level in getting things done to your satisfaction. You say you are picky, can you do all the systems to your level. If not high quality work can be high cost as well.
If you have to change engine ,tranny more big cost items that may need to be done in a older conversion. Time is $ if it is yours or someone else s working for you.
We got our bus imported from US all fees and inspections done and in our name for just under 18k. doing 95 % of all the work myself and only paying out less than 1k$ for outside labor from friends. In the end wife says we are into it for 35k and we went on our first 35 day trip in less than a year. All be it it was not totally finished , no built in gen no roof a/c and no cupboard doors. All will be finished this year at no extra cost. I also bartered for some things (2 sinks toilet genset dinette ) This is a very low tech bus with propane and 12 v only . Gen is for roof ac in case we have to leave the dog in bus .
This was built as a 5 year bus to travel with son so 2 bedrooms. At 5 year mark we will look for another bus and will do it again to suit our needs at that time . Likely a H3 for its higher bays. In the end I think get the newest drive line in a bus shape and size that suites you the best and fits your budget for time and $.
Chuck
Buswarrior, right on. Short, concise, and accurate.
Yes, it is the joy of creation first; being able to go on a trip and camp is a bonus. It is still wise to locate a partial conversion or an entertainer if possible. At the right right price, it will be cheaper than buying all the materials needed. Now that the prices are lower than ever for the value you get, it makes full conversions less practical.
Look at it this way Phil, some of the gentleman on the forum will attempt to convince you that buying a pre-converted coach is really the easiest, most economical way to go. This is true. If after all the advice, you decide to build your own, and you succeed, and post photos here of your process and your completed coach, then you have the respect of all. They are just trying to weed out the talkers from the walkers if you get my drift. As Walter mentioned, we are on conversion number two and we are 31 and 33 with a 7 month old baby girl. If we can do it, anyone can do it. But I can say this: the new coach conversion is costing more $$$ because we are going above and beyond making it just right for us. We learned a lot on our first conversion and it's a nice coach. We are still living in it while we work on our new bus parked about 3 feet away. At least until the end of June. We sold our old bus and another sweet family will be getting all the joy with minimal sweat :) if you are relatively young, I can tell you without a doubt if you complete one conversion, you'll likely do another one someday.
(https://busconversionmagazine.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fuploads.tapatalk-cdn.com%2F20160524%2F1ea8c0f4c167f6c6f3200d3caf445915.jpg&hash=5c28c5e4c0eae226d4d4a7a1f85ad6c9a46c68b9)
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There is a key element in this discussion............AGE.
I still do virtually everything needed on my coach by myself. But I can say for sure my endurance and strength is nowhere near what it used to be and while I still do the same things, they take longer.
Another excellent point should be noted by all. Despite how well bus number one turned out, you make it clear bus number two is going to go above and beyond.
Quote from: Jon on May 24, 2016, 04:56:27 AM
There is a key element in this discussion............AGE.
I still do virtually everything needed on my coach by myself. But I can say for sure my endurance and strength is nowhere near what it used to be and while I still do the same things, they take longer.
Another excellent point should be noted by all. Despite how well bus number one turned out, you make it clear bus number two is going to go above and beyond.
Another reason why it takes us longer to do things (in my estimation) is that we reminisce about past projects while doing the current one, and if we use parts from previous coaches, images of past repairs and adventures pop up in our minds. When our significant other catches us just standing there staring at a part or whole coach and ask why we are not doing anything, they don't understand that we are. Creating things and solving the problems that come up is a satisfying experience, despite the cuts, burns, and bruises.
Quote from: Jon on May 24, 2016, 04:56:27 AM
There is a key element in this discussion............AGE.
I still do virtually everything needed on my coach by myself. But I can say for sure my endurance and strength is nowhere near what it used to be and while I still do the same things, they take longer.
Another excellent point should be noted by all. Despite how well bus number one turned out, you make it clear bus number two is going to go above and beyond.
Lol I noticed the 250 lbs head torque seem harder to pull but I blamed on the torque wrench now I know the problem ;D
Quote from: DoubleEagle on May 24, 2016, 05:55:57 AM
Another reason why it takes us longer to do things (in my estimation) is that we reminisce about past projects while doing the current one, and if we use parts from previous coaches, images of past repairs and adventures pop up in our minds. When our significant other catches us just standing there staring at a part or whole coach and ask why we are not doing anything, they don't understand that we are. Creating things and solving the problems that come up is a satisfying experience, despite the cuts, burns, and bruises.
I couldn't help but chuckle as I read this. You nailed it. Several times I found myself standing and staring endlessly as the wheels creaked and groaned in my mind trying to "find a better way than the last one"
Quote from: luvrbus on May 24, 2016, 06:02:47 AM
Lol I noticed the 250 lbs head torque seem harder to pull but I blamed on the torque wrench now I know the problem ;D
Just put a pipe on the torque wrench, it will not know the difference and it will think a young buck is pulling it. ;D
Quote from: DoubleEagle on May 24, 2016, 06:27:48 AM
Just put a pipe on the torque wrench, ... ;D
Yep, the ole "Georgia torque wrench" solved many a problem - made a lot more. ;D ;D ;D
Back to the original topic...
Prevost or Eagle?
We own an Eagle, Wife still loves me. Nuff said.
Any questions?
Walters comment made me chuckle too. I can't tell you how many times I've just stood in our new bus shell and stared blankly coming up with virtual solutions to problems. Lol. I plan it out in my head then execute. But watching me plan in my head looks very much like I'm in la la land
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Quote from: Scott Bennett on May 26, 2016, 05:50:17 PM
Walters comment made me chuckle too. I can't tell you how many times I've just stood in our new bus shell and stared blankly coming up with virtual solutions to problems. Lol. I plan it out in my head then execute. But watching me plan in my head looks very much like I'm in la la land
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Scott, that is good to know, it looks like the blank stare affliction affects the young as well. The difference is that as you get older, the stare will be longer, and you will drift off the original topic and take longer to recover. Not unlike the wandering off the thread topic at hand - go Eagle if you want the best ride and much admired looks (in my opinion), go Prevost if you have deep pockets, and go MCI if you are practical and want to get parts more easily. They all use the same engines and transmissions, basically; the rest is the shape and style of the wrapper.
Quote from: DoubleEagle on May 26, 2016, 07:18:44 PM
Scott, that is good to know, it looks like the blank stare affliction affects the young as well. The difference is that as you get older, the stare will be longer, and you will drift off the original topic and take longer to recover. Not unlike the wandering off the thread topic at hand - go Eagle if you want the best ride and much admired looks (in my opinion), go Prevost if you have deep pockets, and go MCI if you are practical and want to get parts more easily. They all use the same engines and transmissions, basically; the rest is the shape and style of the wrapper.
My stare usually starts at the front of the bus and ends up somewhere in the back...