Hello Fellow Bus Friends, I hope this message finds you well. I've been considering purchasing another bus for a good while now. I've been thru a lot of expensive repairs with my current one. And because of what I've been thru, it has caused me to be overly cautious and skeptical when purchasing another one.
If I go thru a bus dealership that sales used ones, should they offer me a 30 days warranty of any sort? I see a lot of "as is"... so that means if I purchase then drive 100 miles down the road, and motor blows up, that's all on me? I'm just asking LOL.
So what steps would you take to make sure everything is in great condition not seen by the human eye?
Thanks for your advice!
I do not think you will find any warranty from any one unless it was just rebuilt . the problem with any "car lot " bus sales is because it is not there unit they no nothing about it and most do not care about it other then getting paid to sell it .
I would look at private for sale guys that know every nut , bolt and have probably kept it up great until the last few years because of bad health
what are you looking for ?
dave
Check the archives for advice on inspecting coaches for problems, and look at the fairly recent thread started by ScharpeStGuy who is actively looking for a coach now.
Pay the extra money and get your new bus with a 4 stroke engine. A pre-EGR (pre 2002) Series 60 with B500 would be prime. You won't believe how effortless these engines push the bus down the road, plus good mileage. Good Luck, TomC
Well that's the thing, I bought this one from a guy that knew every nut and bolt, and was selling it because they were retiring from traveling. Seemed to be nice honest people, and maybe they were but boy have I had some crazy things happen within on 3,000 miles of having it. Lots of expense...
Yes I definitely want a 4 stroke. Looking at some Prevost pre EGR. I've heard many good things about series 60 from bus nuts and mechanics. I've got my heart set on a Prevost. A star coach would be preferred (bedroom, few bunks, shower)
Again thank you for your advice and input.
....and remember, "rebuilt" or "new engine" means nothing unless there is paperwork to back it up.
Quote from: Bryan on April 25, 2016, 08:38:02 AM
Well that's the thing, I bought this one from a guy that knew every nut and bolt, and was selling it because they were retiring from traveling. Seemed to be nice honest people, and maybe they were but boy have I had some crazy things happen within on 3,000 miles of having it. Lots of expense...
Yes I definitely want a 4 stroke. Looking at some Prevost pre EGR. I've heard many good things about series 60 from bus nuts and mechanics. I've got my heart set on a Prevost. A star coach would be preferred (bedroom, few bunks, shower)
Again thank you for your advice and input.
Bryan, just to provide some context what sort of things have happened over the last 3,000 miles to your bus? Also SledHead has a beautiful MCI 102C3 for sale that is worth checking out. It has a slide. I am looking for a coach for my three children and my wife and I to go tour the country. Finding a nice bus with bunks is tough as they are either cheaply put together and grungy with a tiny fridge and a microwave or a big bed, kitchen, and living area with little to no room for a few bunk beds with out redoing and moving everything. Best of luck in your search and I am curious as to your mechanical troubles of late. I am looking at two GMC 4905's and one MCI102a3 right now and hope to get offers submitted by end of week.
Ancient history but perhaps still timely. I hired a local personally well known heavy truck mechanic and we spent hours crawling up, under, over, around and through my long gone Bus Conversion candidate.
Checked literally hundreds of things. Very strong spot light. While doing this with him, he explained what he was looking for and why. Many many things. Also took fluid analysis's for checking. Extensive.
Best money I ever spent. By the time we were done we knew pretty much what the old girl had in her and what she did not need, plus the little things she might need in the future. A complete inspection.
This was followed up with an extensive test ride. He did not baby my girl. He also seemed to know his stuff. I learned a great deal of new things to look for, why, made a new good friend and saved $$$.
Quote from: ScharpeStGuy on April 25, 2016, 09:59:39 AM
Bryan, just to provide some context what sort of things have happened over the last 3,000 miles to your bus? Also SledHead has a beautiful MCI 102C3 for sale that is worth checking out. It has a slide. I am looking for a coach for my three children and my wife and I to go tour the country. Finding a nice bus with bunks is tough as they are either cheaply put together and grungy with a tiny fridge and a microwave or a big bed, kitchen, and living area with little to no room for a few bunk beds with out redoing and moving everything. Best of luck in your search and I am curious as to your mechanical troubles of late. I am looking at two GMC 4905's and one MCI102a3 right now and hope to get offers submitted by end of week.
Hey ScharpeStGuy!
I understand this particular forum is not to post buses for sale, so I'll give you some info, and you can send me an email or private message and we can further discuss... my email is email@b-shoc.com
To make a very long story short, the motor and trans has just been completely rebuilt. I have paperwork and warranties. It was done by a very reputable company. She run so much smoother and shifts so much better. Most of these bus nuts love 2 strokes, and I have to agree they sound beautiful, I'm just ready to get a newer model with a little longer length. Mine has a king bed, bathroom, 6 bunks (3 on each side), and kitchen, and front room sits 6 people. I doesn't have a shower, but there is enough room to use one side of the bunks for a shower and closet, without having to remade the floor plan. I have been told by various bus nuts that my 4107 is in VERY good condition. I honestly cannot sell it until I have another one in my possession. We are a ministry and need a bus for our travels. Feel free to shoot me a private message or email. I'd love to talk with you.
Bryan
Quote from: HB of CJ on April 25, 2016, 10:40:52 AM
Ancient history but perhaps still timely. I hired a local personally well known heavy truck mechanic and we spent hours crawling up, under, over, around and through my long gone Bus Conversion candidate.
Checked literally hundreds of things. Very strong spot light. While doing this with him, he explained what he was looking for and why. Many many things. Also took fluid analysis's for checking. Extensive.
Best money I ever spent. By the time we were done we knew pretty much what the old girl had in her and what she did not need, plus the little things she might need in the future. A complete inspection.
This was followed up with an extensive test ride. He did not baby my girl. He also seemed to know his stuff. I learned a great deal of new things to look for, why, made a new good friend and saved $$$.
NICE!!! And how would I find a new good friend like this? :-) Did he go with you to the bus or did they allow you to bring the bus to him before purchasing?
Bryan,
If you are looking for a used entertainer/star coach with bunks that is reliable and has an engine with a warranty and all the paperwork to back it up, then check out Staley Coach (Wade or Libby) in the Nashville area. They are selling a few Prevost from a company called Diamond Coaches that we put reman'd Detroit Diesel engines and B500 transmissions in before they handed them off to Staley to sell. We haven't had one of their Pre-EGR buses come in yet, so most every bus we have had come to us for this work, has be a EGR engine.
Quote from: Detroitenginespecialist on April 25, 2016, 11:16:13 AM
Bryan,
If you are looking for a used entertainer/star coach with bunks that is reliable and has an engine with a warranty and all the paperwork to back it up, then check out Staley Coach (Wade or Libby) in the Nashville area. They are selling a few Prevost from a company called Diamond Coaches that we put reman'd Detroit Diesel engines and B500 transmissions in before they handed them off to Staley to sell. We haven't had one of their Pre-EGR buses come in yet, so most every bus we have had come to us for this work, has be a EGR engine.
Thank you, I will check them out! It is 1994 that Prevost changed to 4 stroke correct?
Quote from: HB of CJ on April 25, 2016, 10:40:52 AM
Ancient history but perhaps still timely. I hired a local personally well known heavy truck mechanic and we spent hours crawling up, under, over, around and through my long gone Bus Conversion candidate.
Checked literally hundreds of things. Very strong spot light. While doing this with him, he explained what he was looking for and why. Many many things. Also took fluid analysis's for checking. Extensive.
Best money I ever spent. By the time we were done we knew pretty much what the old girl had in her and what she did not need, plus the little things she might need in the future. A complete inspection.
This was followed up with an extensive test ride. He did not baby my girl. He also seemed to know his stuff. I learned a great deal of new things to look for, why, made a new good friend and saved $$$.
HB, what part of the country did you purchase your bus and could you share the contact info for the "local personally well known heavy truck mechanic" you used! Those in the bus market and those looking years from now may be able to utilize the individual you anonymously recommended.
Thanks!
Bryan,
I believe the Series 60 came into the market in 1989 or 1990.
Fifteen years ago. SW Oregon. Logging country. The gentleman probably either has retired or died. Bill was $150 for about 8 hours work. I found that the Bus Conversion candidate had lots of new parts. A few items were tagged for future examination.
The most costly fix was an update for the burned out Victors VT42 type power steering pump. Failed north of Sacramento. Oil everywhere. Pump too hot to touch. I cut both belts off and continued the trip home. Power assist power steering. Steered fine.
Seems the school district just hung whatever pump they had on hand to sell the Crown. The nice guys in Grants Pass provided the proper bigger pump. 16K front axle. We also replaced both long PS hoses. All the other stuff had little wear.
Perhaps today you could make contact with the independent heavy equipment or trucking repair centers? Find a mechanic. The concern nowadays would include finding someone still knowledgeable with the older buses. My situation was unique.
The purchase of any bus can be a costly undertaking if there are unknown problems. The only way to determine that is a very detailed, time consuming and expensive inspection. Given the prices in the real world for fully completed professionally done conversions I wouldn't touch a bus that had been in commercial service, seated or entertainer. They have been run hard and put away wet by drivers and mechanics that don't own them.
I would instead focus on a professionally converted Prevost. Right now there are some good examples on ebay that are going to sell for far less than the cost of their respective parts. They may have mechanical issues, may benefit from some updates, but they are cheap and likely have not been beat to death. But that does not mean they should not get an in depth, time consuming and expensive inspection. A lot of owners are not professionals and they may not do detailed maintenance on pneumatic systems for example, but whatever problems they might have will not be the result of things being worn out and any repairs are likely to be needed more due to age than wear and tear and abuse.
there will be nothing road simple about a pro converted Prevost...imo ... etc.
2 strokes were in buses till 1994 then the series 60 came most were 11.1 series 60 engines in buses .Lot of people try to tell you Prevost never used the 11.1 not true at all plenty of Prevost from the 90's running 11.1 350 hp series 60 go for 12.7-430-470 hp non EGR engine
Quote from: eagle19952 on April 26, 2016, 08:54:33 AM
there will be nothing road simple about a pro converted Prevost...imo ... etc.
The early models, such as the 2 stroke ones listed on ebay right now were the epitome of simplicity, robust designs, and a joy to use.
Guys are likely OK going up and down the road in a tin tent, but our wives somehow have higher standards.
Quote from: Jon on April 26, 2016, 11:59:02 AM
The early models, such as the 2 stroke ones listed on ebay right now were the epitome of simplicity, robust designs, and a joy to use.
Guys are likely OK going up and down the road in a tin tent, but our wives somehow have higher standards.
i was referring to house systems... not chassis. sorry if i did not make that clear :)
I wouldn't buy a Prevost older than 1985 those things can rot as good as the Eagle or VanHools but Eagles and Vanhools are a lot easier to repair
Very unique situation you had! That is great! I'm looking into some 1990s models Prevost with series 60, so hopefully more mechanics will be available :-)
Quote from: eagle19952 on April 26, 2016, 12:11:52 PM
i was referring to house systems... not chassis. sorry if i did not make that clear :)
The early professional conversions were as simple as an anvil, and almost as reliable. Wires, switches, circuit breakers and relays. No proprietary components, and in almost every case if something has to be replaced, WW Grainger likely has it.
Quote from: Jon on April 27, 2016, 04:20:49 AM
The early professional conversions were as simple as an anvil, and almost as reliable. Wires, switches, circuit breakers and relays. No proprietary components, and in almost every case if something has to be replaced, WW Grainger likely has it.
Yes, and in the case of my Eagle entertainer, the names of the people who did the work are engraved on the main switch panel.
As others have noted, HOURS of detailed inspection by a competent, NON-AFFILIATED technician.
Buying something that is currently in use, and if you didn't happen along, it was going back out again tomorrow, would be a dream!
If it has been sitting... more suspicion.
Dirty oil lets you take a sample, fresh oil change in a coach for sale denies you that opportunity, read between the lines...
Maintenance history to review? Previous owner and maintainer available to consult?
Why does it have a fresh paint job? Why are the tires mismatched? Can you read a tire date code?
A 4 stroke re-build is $10-$15k, so getting this wrong will blow what you thought you were saving....
If you can buy a running coach from the operator that is running it, local to you, there's a future relationship there?
Engage your brain, where would you buy, and not buy, a decent used car from? Manufacturer dealers only keep the good used ones for re-sale, the little corner lots sell the glossed over crappy ones.... the good stuff isn't even put up on the internet, it moves itself.
The education in this field is harsh, fast and expensive. You are a gold fish to be eaten. Swim accordingly?
happy coaching!
buswarrior
Quote from: buswarrior on April 27, 2016, 03:43:02 PM
As others have noted, HOURS of detailed inspection by a competent, NON-AFFILIATED technician.
Buying something that is currently in use, and if you didn't happen along, it was going back out again tomorrow, would be a dream!
If it has been sitting... more suspicion.
Dirty oil lets you take a sample, fresh oil change in a coach for sale denies you that opportunity, read between the lines...
Maintenance history to review? Previous owner and maintainer available to consult?
Why does it have a fresh paint job? Why are the tires mismatched? Can you read a tire date code?
A 4 stroke re-build is $10-$15k, so getting this wrong will blow what you thought you were saving....
If you can buy a running coach from the operator that is running it, local to you, there's a future relationship there?
Engage your brain, where would you buy, and not buy, a decent used car from? Manufacturer dealers only keep the good used ones for re-sale, the little corner lots sell the glossed over crappy ones.... the good stuff isn't even put up on the internet, it moves itself.
The education in this field is harsh, fast and expensive. You are a gold fish to be eaten. Swim accordingly?
happy coaching!
buswarrior
Very good advice. I bought my first Eagle from a Charter Bus company. I got to go on a run with the main driver that used it most, and I got to talk to the company mechanic that overhauled the engine the previous year. Everything they said turned out to be true, and I ran that Eagle from Maine to Texas to South Dakota, and everywhere in between for twenty years. They also gave me the parts and service manuals, and extra parts, as they were retiring their Eagles and going to VanHools. Every used bus will have issues, but the overall condition of the key components is important.