I have an air throttle.
Years ago I sat in on a discussion about cruise controls. They were building them using an old car-type cruise, and making some modifications. In the end, the problem was usually the hard pull of the cable. Some had some luck using the air throttle.
I don't remember any details. Does anybody have instructions on building a cruise control?
I'm too cheap (or broke) to buy a real cruise for a thousand bucks.
For many years I used a car type of cruise control. I had it pull on the accelerator pedal as I had an air throttle so easy to pull. The speed sensing was by several magnets attached to the front brake drum. It worked really well. I have a DDEC engine now so it is built into the computer.
I have this.
http://www.rostra.com/universal-aftermarket-cruise-control-by-rostra.php (http://www.rostra.com/universal-aftermarket-cruise-control-by-rostra.php)
http://www.amazon.com/Rostra-Universal-Electronic-Control-250-1223/dp/B007ZCQD9S (http://www.amazon.com/Rostra-Universal-Electronic-Control-250-1223/dp/B007ZCQD9S)
It has worked well for me on my Eagle for 15 years. I hooked the servo line to the back of my gas pedal, so the servo is mounted just behind the eagle emblem behind my front bumper. I put the magnet on the drive shaft.
David
I've been testing an electronic throttle control. It doesn't control the speed, but sets the throttle. Like using a stick on the throttle.
I have a relay that switches the throttle input from the rheostat/variable resistor to an manually adjusted rheostat on the dash. I have manual engage and manual disengage buttons. Also application of the brakes will disengage the relay and return the control to the pedal. This works OK on flat lands but not so in rolling hills. This only works on electronic engines. I have a DDEC II.
I don't think this is what you are looking for, but here it is.
Art
Quote from: Tikvah on April 19, 2016, 04:32:55 PM
I'm too cheap (or broke) to buy a real cruise for a thousand bucks.
For what it's worth, King Cruise control for a bus conversion is $595 online.
Art, if you have DDEC II why aren't you using the built in cruise control?
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One of the members on the Bus Nut site used to sell the Rostra unit for our coaches. Many used it with satisfactory results. Unit is very adaptable. I've even used one on my Burgman maxi scooter. You want the electronic version, not the vacuum one, which I used. I think the vacuum type is Audivox, which appears to be made by same company. The units come with a variety of adapter components to adapt to just about any type of throttle setup. They also have dip switches for tailoring unit to your specific application. Connect actuator to throttle up front. Otherwise, you'll have to run wire clear to the back. If these are still too much money, you are in the wrong hobby.
http://www.busnut.com/bbs/messages/233/19574.html?1197427379 (http://www.busnut.com/bbs/messages/233/19574.html?1197427379)
You can go to the busnutonline site...go to archives and then do a search for cruise control. Everything you need to know.
This is all really helpful information. I'll purchase the Rostra and probably from Pete.
I didn't realize the king cruise could be bought for only six hundred bucks, I thought I heard 1000 - 1200.
Please, as a general rule, don't ever tell anyone
QuoteIf these are still too much money, you are in the wrong hobby.
I'm sure you meant no harm, but for some of us this isn't a hobby, it's a way of life. My bus is my home not my project, and like many homeowners, we don't always have enough money to do everything we want. I have to hire heavy mechanics and some bus friends critize that. But we don't all have the same talents or abilities. I'm proud of my bus, but, no, I can't afford some of the things I want.
Dave
Dave,one good thing about a King is the fast idle option when I install Jakes the combo fast idle buffer switch is so expensive I just buy the King if people want the fast idle and a cruise control fwiw.The King usually cost me a little over 500 bucks with shipping.
It's a catch 22 on a 6v92 they work ok on flat level ground and I have mix feeling about the cost vs the benefit you know sorta like the Jakes :o
My bus has the old Bendix air operated cruise. I love it. Yea it works best on the flats and moderate hills, depending on how much power your engine has. When I see a bigger hill ahead, I turn it off before I start climbing, and resume on the other side. But there are a lot of flat miles where the cruise is nice to have.
JC
Rumor had it that 45 years ago folks just pulled out the hand throttle and let the engine float against the governor. Seemed to work OK. Of course falling asleep at the wheel was not advised. :) :)
Quote from: HB of CJ on April 20, 2016, 08:56:53 AMRumor had it that 45 years ago folks just pulled out the hand throttle and let the engine float against the governor. Seemed to work OK. Of course falling asleep at the wheel was not advised. :) :)
About 45 years ago, a friend of mine installed a cruise control that he bought from JC Whitney on his Winnebego. Worked like a charm as long as he owned the vehicle.
I also have an air throttle working a mechanical 8V-71 with V730. Since the V730 has an air operated throttle modulator, I used the King Cruise Control and mounted it on the right side of the dash. Then ran the pull cable down through the floor back up to under the gas pedal. I made a metal plate extension on the gas pedal with a hole big enough where the cable could slide when I'm using the pedal with my foot. Then when cruise is wanted, it just pulls down on the gas pedal. It is very accurate at speed control-although a bit of surging on down hills. Also since it is operating the gas pedal, it will also activate the Jake brake if you have it on. Has fast idle. I had to install a speedometer sensor on the transmission. This is a through drive. You pull out the speedometer sensor, install the King Cruise speed sensor then re mount the speedometer sensor on top of the King Cruise. I had already run 5-3wire extension cords from the engine compartment to the driver's seat, so I just used two of those wires. Also, since I had LED brake lights, there was not enough resistance on the bulbs for the King Cruise to pick up the signal. Installing a 100ohm resistor from the brake light switch (under the dash) to the ground did the trick. I like the King Cruise so much, I will be installing one in my truck conversion. Spend the money on a professionally made commercial grade cruise control like the King Cruise. Good Luck, TomC
The old DD have a limiting speed governor if they had a variable speed governor you could just use a string the governor would hold the same rpm
Maybe my comment was a little harsh.So.....let's just say that once you spend time and money to cobble something up, you could buy the Rostra unit and enjoy it now. Save money in cobbling up a nice air leveling system and also a mister system for those to es when it is getting too hot on a grade and you are temped to keep pushing it because the crest is ONLY two hundred more feet. Much cheaper than cracked heads. Btw, King cruise and Rosta are 12 volt so if you are 24 volts, you'll need to deal with that. Using just a choke cable is going need constant fiddling as engine temp changes unless you run against the governor. Rostra doesn't need a speedometer take off. You can set up a pickup off the front wheel and mount actuator an all necessary wiring up front.I have a King to install in my coach since I already had it. Otherwise, I would use a Rostra, especially since I've installed two of them with good as expected results.
No-your comment wasn't out of line. If he can't afford a $600 cruise control, how is he going to afford a couple of tires, or a blown engine or transmission, or even the big alternator. If you don't have at least a $20,000 credit line on your credit card, you might as well park your bus and just use it like a mini house. Good Luck, TomC
Thanks guys,
I think the Rostra is for me. I like the added benefit of the high idle, but not enough to justify the difference.
Tom, you're not helping.. :)
There's a huge difference between buying an unnecessary item like a cruise, and buying a safety item like a tire.
For every person, no matter the financial situation, we set priorities. If I didn't sort needs from wants I would either have unlimited cash flow like you, or I'd live a foolish and indebted life.
Saying that I can't afford $600 is saying that I am low enough in the income bracket to sort carefully before spending that much.
Thanks again guys - all of you.
Dave
(Tikvah)
Guy's ,I have one of the JC Whitney controls .Packed up in my basement.I bought it for an old Winnebago ,but traded the MH before I got it installed.Will give to someone if they would want it.Says it will work for gas or diesel!!!
I have to say that my cruise control is mighty cheap and it works. My bus is so slow that all I have to do is let the weight of my foot hold the throttle floored the whole time I'm driving. Works perfectly.
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Quote
Guy's ,I have one of the JC Whitney controls .Packed up in my basement.I bought it for an old Winnebago ,but traded the MH before I got it installed.Will give to someone if they would want it.Says it will work for gas or diesel!!!
I'll gladly take you up on that offer
Dave
Scott
you will have to learn not to due that when you have the 8v92ta on the road and should not have to
lots of power and heat
dave
Personally I think telling someone they should leave it parked unless they have at least a 20k credit line is ridiculous. By that standard I would have never rolled at all, as I'm sure many others on this board would say the same if they were honest. I think it's a bit arrogant and haughty quite honestly.
Quote from: thomasinnv on April 21, 2016, 06:31:31 PM
Personally I think telling someone they should leave it parked unless they have at least a 20k credit line is ridiculous. By that standard I would have never rolled at all, as I'm sure many others on this board would say the same if they were honest. I think it's a bit arrogant and haughty quite honestly.
If i had said it i'd have been castrated, drawn and quartered and ignored by 8 more people by sundown...
Thomasinnv - I totally agree with you. Comments like the one from TomC are not necessary and are not helpful to anyone. Just goes to show you if he truly has all of that money etc... the money has not been able to buy him any tact when dealing with others!!
I take my old bus to many campgrounds where I get to talk and meet with people who are a whole lot more wealthy than I will ever have the opportunity to be in this life. However, for the most part they are very humble and gracious. They do not have to look down at someone who is enjoying the same thing they are with a much smaller budget and a rv worth 10 to 20 times less than theirs. It doesn't matter about money.....PEOPLE matter.
Tikvah - Enjoy your bus/home and do not let people who feel they must look down on the rest of us get under your skin. Like you I have to make choices as to what I upgrade on my bus. You never said your bus was not safe as was implied by the negative post. I am also starting to look at cruise control for my bus. It had it installed on some point before with po.
BTW - some may say to TomC if you can only pay for it with your CC with a high limit you do not need to own the bus either. If you can't pay cash maybe you should SELL yours.
BE NICE TO OTHERS SO YOU DO NOT RUN NEW PEOPLE OFF THIS WEBSITE and then get on here and complain when new people leave.
Sorry for the RANT. It is just sad to see people who are suppose to be adults act like they have no manners because they are behind a screen typing. You need to remember to treat others as you wish to be treated.
Also, before you try to go off on me....My bus is safe and runs great.
Best wishes everyone!!
Can't beat this one for simplicity. One brick for 40mph, two for 50 and three for 60mph
(https://busconversionmagazine.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ffeelgrafix.com%2Fdata_images%2Fout%2F28%2F985326-brick.jpg&hash=913fbb12f518d5f9490562c9fadd45594ce83259)
BTW Tom has a point though, although luckily most of us never have a breakdown that serious, some do. A blown engine isn't a safety issue but hard to be a busnut without one.
https://www.google.com/search?q=pisture+of+guy+eating+popcorn&oq=pisture+of+guy+eating+popcorn&aqs=chrome..69i57j0l3.17935j0j4&client=tablet-android-verizon&sourceid=chrome-mobile&ie=UTF-8#imgrc=osp9X-JwT4pzbM%3A (https://www.google.com/search?q=pisture+of+guy+eating+popcorn&oq=pisture+of+guy+eating+popcorn&aqs=chrome..69i57j0l3.17935j0j4&client=tablet-android-verizon&sourceid=chrome-mobile&ie=UTF-8#imgrc=osp9X-JwT4pzbM%3A)
It's a full moon lol check the archives that is not the first time the topic has come up.I can see the point from both sides. I have a good friend that has a 100 grand in 2 engines in the past 5 years not many here I know could survive that lick.
I know Tom I don't that think it came out the way he intended it happens to me all the time anyway Dave had the right answer and moved on
;D TomC has retired now he will get lessons in cash flow with it going out and not much returning
I apologize to all I offended with my comments on enough money to keep up a bus. After 21 years of cross country truck driving (bus drive trains are not that much different) I know how much repairs can be. I have also run into many RV park owners that have bad tastes in their mouths from bus owners that have broken down in their parks-some just abandoning their buses leaving the RV park owner to deal with the bus.
I'm sorry if I sound harsh, but the reality is that, yes we have commercial vehicles that are the heaviest duty vehicles made and they can last a long time. But when they do need repair, plan on spending about 10 times what the same repair on a car would take. Just trying to put a realistic view on what can and is an expensive hobby. Good Luck, TomC
Maybe we should get into electric fans while we are at it........
TomC I do see your point, but at the same time I also know what it is to operate on a budget. I guess what it all comes down to in the end is the individuals decision on whether or not they are willing to take the gamble. I have been in that situation recently, and even though I had the money on hand for the repairs, I just as well have been broke because the shop (used to be a good friend of mine) did me a horrible disservice. I am well over 21k in it and still picking up the pieces.
Maybe a better way to have put it is in the form of a question - - - -
What is your plan in the event of a catastrophic failure on the road away from home?
My main plan is to take preventative maintenance seriously & deal with any issue as soon as it comes up - and - have tools & spare parts so I can handle most minor issues on the road.
The backup plan is to have enough in reserve to tow coach home if all else fails.
It may be just me, but if I didn't have enough to buy a couple of tires and an extra full tank of fuel, I would be worried about what would happen if I ran over something or had a busted fuel line. In my early days of driving old cars, I just borrowed a pickup truck & rented a tow bar to bring the broken down car home. A 3000# car is not the same as dealing with 30,000#
I have talked to many RV'ers and bus conversion retired people travelling. They go as far as their monthly money lets them, then they hang out till their monthly retirement check is automatically deposited to their bank. Then they fill'er up and off they go! Good Luck, TomC
Quote from: TomC on April 22, 2016, 06:43:17 AM... Just trying to put a realistic view on what can and is an expensive hobby. Good Luck, TomC
I hear you. I tell people that if I'd known that this was going to take 1/20th of the time or 1/10th the money, I'd have never done it. But I want to do it, I'm not getting any younger, and I want to do this before I die.
LOL since the topic has gone into far left field I have a friend that lost a differential in a 2000 Prevost it damaged his B500 he left Clarke Power in Memphis on Friday $21,814.75 lighter so if see a guy on hiway 59 in Texas with card board sign standing by a late model Marathon Prevost saying I am broke need help toss him a few bucks ;D
;D
;D
Quote from: luvrbus on April 23, 2016, 06:32:07 AM
LOL since the topic has gone into far left field I have a friend that lost a differential in a 2000 Prevost it damaged his B500 he left Clarke Power in Memphis on Friday $21,814.75 lighter so if see a guy on hiway 59 in Texas with card board sign standing by a late model Marathon Prevost saying I am broke need help toss him a few bucks ;D
Wow, almost $22K in one shot. That's more than I make in three months. (WAY more than I make in 3 months :) )
I wasn't so far off at saying you should have $20,000 credit line on you credit cards.
Quote from: TomC on April 23, 2016, 10:43:23 AM
I wasn't so far off at saying you should have $20,000 credit line on you credit cards.
Some coaches (according to other recent posts) are not worth $20K let alone putting another $20K into...
Some buses are peoples home and don't have a choice Donald,take Ed he spent 32 grand in MT for a 8v71 rebuild it was his home and has since sold the bus for less than he paid for the engine rebuild, not real good math IMO but you gotta do what you gotta do sometimes
Just to give you an idea of what I'm paying for a Series 60 factory reman installed from DD, it is costing me approx $38K. With the additional add on's we change when installing a new engine (radiator, CAC, all hoses, etc) I'm at $42K, including the third year warranty. Caterpillar is 5K more (and no third year warranty). I'd also like to tell you about the cost of maintaining the dpf, delta P, EGR system, but I don't want to derail this thread. I'll abbreviate it by saying that long term, I don't believe most of us can afford to operate a bus built in 2004 or newer for motorhome service. Everytime I have to send one to the dealer for repair of the pollution control system, it's a $4K - $5K bill. And, that happens with some regularity. It's not a once-in-a-blue-moon event. I was discussing with a friend last week that emission controls will probably end bus conversions as we know it.
Quote from: luvrbus on April 23, 2016, 11:03:41 AM
Some buses are peoples home and don't have a choice Donald,take Ed he spent 32 grand in MT for a 8v71 rebuild it was his home and has since sold the bus for less than he paid for the engine rebuild, not real good math IMO but you gotta do what you gotta do sometimes
i was picking on Tom...i pretty much travel enough to say i live in mine too.
but i can rent a Ryder truck, look on Facebook and replace mine in about 3 days if i want to... ;D
This thread is not off track, devastating financial surprises control our cruising! The horror stories of big buck expenses for the newer coaches show the value of some of the older coaches with 6V92's (mechanical) and 740 Allison's, for instance. The computer controls only save a little fuel, but the horrible problems that can come up far outweigh the fuel cost difference. Having 500 horsepower is handy in the mountains, but you pay for it all the time. And then there are the EPA requirements... I will keep my non-computer mechanical engines.
Quote from: DoubleEagle on April 23, 2016, 08:23:03 PM
I will keep my non-computer mechanical engines.
me too ... :)
Do those of you who don't want electronics in your buses also drive 20 to 30 year old cars from before they added electronics too?
I do . But my wife's 2010 Mitsubishi Outlander is very electronic and a good scanner for it costs +$1500 and the cheaper scanners (200-300)do not go deep enough. I know I will end up with a newer work van one of these days but as someone who usually fixes his own stuff, I dread it as I know I will probably shell out big $ for a system to scan it. I do enjoy all the electronics, low maintenance etc when it is all working though.
when I started looking to replace the old full rebuilt tried and tested 6v92ta that has never left me stranded .I decided on a small window in years of 2000 , 2001 ,2002 because of the fact that as of 2003 the emissions are CRAP ! and I wanted MORE POWER ! and at 550 hp I am sure I will be paying for it one way or another . hopefully only in fuel ?
dave
Quote from: belfert on April 24, 2016, 01:20:28 AM
Do those of you who don't want electronics in your buses also drive 20 to 30 year old cars from before they added electronics too?
The issue I'm having with my older cars with electronics (2001, a 2002 & a 2004) is the lack of support. The dealers aren't interested in working on cars that old - they are more interested in servicing the newer cars. Due to theft deterrents, the computers have to be reprogrammed before they will work in another vehicle. The programmers become a few years after the new models are released. Once obsolete, they aren't supported & that means you will have a very difficult time finding someone who actually knows what to do - VS someone who wants to spend more than the car is worth by throwing parts at it.
However, I can get a replacement car for less than $20,000 that is supported by the dealer.
It is amazing what the electronics have done for diesel engines for HP,torque and fuel economy like Dave's 3406E it basically the same 350hp Cat engine as it was from the beginning.Electronics can be a real pain but in the end they are dependable but do become obsolete in a hurry and are not supported by Allison or Detroit,Cat or Cummins that is wrong I think .
Now the later model stuff the transmission tells the engine what it needs we will wait and see how that works out I guess.I just figured out how to work the remote for the TV and recorder but tossed in the towel for the smart phone back to old flip for me 10 bucks @ Walmart
My 1984 Mercedes 300 Turbodiesel has 496,000mi on it and haven't had the engine or transmission overhauled yet. It is so reliable, Wikipedia has an article on the W123 chasis and that they regularly go 1,000,000km (620,000mi) before overhaul. The only piece of electronics is the climate control-of which we have it hot wired open now. With cast iron block and head engine, Mercedes certainly is not making those kinds of cars anymore. The 4 wheel disc brakes are so good, I always look in my mirror when braking hard. www.mercedesmotoring.com (http://www.mercedesmotoring.com) takes 1972 through 1985 Mercedes and rebuilds them to new-selling around $35,000.
One of the main reasons for converting my truck is the mechanical Caterpillar 3406B (jacket water aftercooled). While not as efficient as the air to air intercooled, I'm glad to not have air to air since the big 14.6 liter engine will be mostly loafing going down the road and need to keep heat up. Also, my '85 KW has no electronics either. The Cat 3406B is now a 3406C mainly with the change from one piece pistons to two piece pistons and a few other mods. But basically the same engine. Cat is still making the mechanical 3406C for pump and generator use for third world countries that don't want electronic controls and an engine that is just about dirt reliable (my opinion-the 3406B or C is the most reliable engine ever made). Good Luck, TomC
Quote from: belfert on April 24, 2016, 01:20:28 AM
Do those of you who don't want electronics in your buses also drive 20 to 30 year old cars from before they added electronics too?
You bet! My personal dually pickup is a 1993 Ford F350 with the 7.3L IDI engine, my work pickups are 7.3L Ford Powerstrokes prior to computers. My Series Land Rovers date from 1966 to 1972. I used to have diesel Volvo's and Mercedes. Living in the past free of dealership (stealership) gouging. Computerization was once expressed as the path to providing equal opportunity for everyone to do great things, but I think it has concentrated wealth into the hands of the privileged few. The Caterpilar 3406 series is a good example of phony progress. It is a fine engine with torque beyond its rating. I had one rated 385 hp in a Mack dump truck back in the eighties that ran side by side with a GMC with the 8V92 rated at 435 hp. Running the same gross loads in the mountains of northern New Hampshire, the 3406 would outpull the 8V92 on every mountain grade (with the same gearing) and make 1 or 2 more trips in the same day. I doubt that the computerized version would do that today, and CAT got out of providing road engines the last I heard. Programmed obsolescence is for profit, not for service to the customer, and flip phones would at least fit in your pocket!
With out a doubt the 425 hp 3406C was the best engine I ever own it would smoke on take off but when the smoke cleared it was off and running.Fwiw Dave I have friend with the C-15 about the same engine as the 3406 E, in his Newell with the C-15 set at 625 hp he is 5 mpg on a good day but he doesn't care as he loves passing Prevost's going up hill
1995 Tahoe. yes it has very minimum electronics, an ecm. and a 460le with 300,000 on the clock. all new bearings everywhere except the crankshaft. The only thing I wish is that it was a Suburban :)
next motor will have a carburetor.
Quote from: eagle19952 on April 24, 2016, 09:12:56 AM
1995 Tahoe. yes it has very minimum electronics, an ecm. and a 460le with 300,000 on the clock. all new bearings everywhere except the crankshaft. The only thing I wish is that it was a Suburban :)
How far will that vehicle go if the ECM fails?
My point is I bet most here own cars modern enough to have some of sort of electronics that control the engine, but at the same time don't want to own a bus with an electronic engine.
Quote from: belfert on April 24, 2016, 04:05:29 PM
How far will that vehicle go if the ECM fails?
My point is I bet most here own cars modern enough to have some of sort of electronics that control the engine, but at the same time don't want to own a bus with an electronic engine.
i can replace this ECM for 45$....
So Dave
did you ever get your cruise control finished? or any good ideas?
Getting back to the original threads.................... ;)
Dave5Cs
Quote from: eagle19952 on April 24, 2016, 04:16:08 PM
i can replace this ECM for 45$....
What happens when it dies on the road and you're stuck? Do you carry a spare?
I have owned a half dozen daily drivers with electronics that are required to make the engine go. I don't have the slightest worry about an electronics failure leaving me dead on the road. An electronics failure on my bus is way down the worry list for me. A replacement DDEC programmed with my specs can be purchased for $300 to $1000 depending on how long you can afford to wait for replacement. I don't see commercial trucks sitting all along the shoulders of major highways with electronics failures and 90%+ have electronics now. I think this board has seen more catastrophic failures of two stroke engines than electronics failures. I admit that electronics failures do happen, but pretty rare. If you're a skilled mechanic you could probably fix a mechanical engine, buy you could probably fix an electronic engine too.
Somewhat back on topic, my bus has cruise built into the DDEC and it works pretty well. It does have issues if the Jake Brake is on when the cruise is on so I just make sure the Jake Brake is off when using cruise.
On topic, does the cruise on a DDEC II system need to be activated by a programmer? Dave are you mechanical 6v92? I thought you were DDEC???
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Quote from: belfert on April 24, 2016, 04:58:16 PM
What happens when it dies on the road and you're stuck? Do you carry a spare?
i stop dead in my tracks, i get out and beat the car with a four pound sledge...then i kick my feet and throw a tantrum...then i start yelling at my wife and blame her for all my troubles...
then i push the car in the ditch and light it on fire...
thanks !!! I just spit out my coffee ... but you made my day
dave
Quote from: Scott Bennett on April 24, 2016, 08:31:18 PM
On topic, does the cruise on a DDEC II system need to be activated by a programmer? Dave are you mechanical 6v92? I thought you were DDEC???
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No you can activate the cruise with a pro/link you want to borrow mine to screw around with your engine ;D