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Bus Discussion => Bus Topics ( click here for quick start! ) => Topic started by: sledhead on April 17, 2016, 03:12:32 PM

Title: cat 3406 e not starting
Post by: sledhead on April 17, 2016, 03:12:32 PM
I just drove home a 2000 featherlite vogue 5000 with my son on friday , 350 miles  . 550 hp wow was that fun ! now the next day I move it to where I can work on it , turn it off and put out the slide and start accessing the coach . it is like going back in time as every thing that was in it in 2000 is there today even the ironing board and iron .
the problem I now have is after putting in the slide and turning the key to start it I get nothing ! the engine will not turn over , no starter click . lots of 12 volt power . I did check the rad fill tank and the anti - freeze was below the censor in the tank so I added a gallon .

I tried the code flash on the dash and 2 codes come up

1st is low coolant # 62
2nd code is # 61  high coolant temp
it ran great all the way home and was never over temp . when I turn the key to try and start it the water temp light and buzzer come on and no start   

I am thinking it must be a safety switch some where that is not letting it start . could it be something to do with the slide out or something else with the coach system ?

thanks for any helpful ideas

dave 

Title: Re: cat 3406 e not starting
Post by: HB of CJ on April 17, 2016, 03:47:02 PM
About the only thing I can think of right now is that the manufacture or dealer installed some sort of "after the fact" safety cutout switch to prevent engine start when a slide out has been deployed?

Maybe you can physically look for a micro switch that engages when the slide out is "out"?  Maybe it is stuck and did not did dis-engage when the slide out was slid back in?  Can you physically search?

Another possible thing you could do, (a long shot here) is to research and contact the manufacture?  The dealer who sold the coach?  Long shot.  A long time ago.  I would look for that micro switch first.

550hp?  Wow.  What does the Coach weigh?  Must be fun to drive!  :)
Title: Re: cat 3406 e not starting
Post by: luvrbus on April 17, 2016, 03:56:37 PM
The slides are interlocked they won't start with a slide in out position,the V5000 is a nice coach we have friends that purchased 1 last year the siding and the paint are the only problem areas on the V5000.I tried to buy a V6000 at a auction but lost the bid  ???
Title: Re: cat 3406 e not starting
Post by: sledhead on April 17, 2016, 04:18:26 PM
I have not had a chance to weight it yet ,  but from what I can find in all the binders that came with it is it should be about 39,000  lbs . now if I could get the same engine , allison 4060 transmission to fit in my 1990 102c at 34,000 lbs that would be great .

I am hoping it is something as simple as a dumb micro switch              but now I remember why when I made my slide on the mci I used my computer board ( in my head ) you know       look out side to see if all is clear to put it out and look in side to see if it is clear to put it in . one switch ! no safeties other then common sense   and the stops that hold it in place well on the road .

thanks   dave   
Title: Re: cat 3406 e not starting
Post by: luvrbus on April 17, 2016, 04:25:13 PM
On some of the V5000 you removed the fuse from the HWH slide control box and you could start the engine with the slide out but still the transmission had a interface that would not allow it to be shifted YMMD
Title: Re: cat 3406 e not starting
Post by: sledhead on April 17, 2016, 04:33:46 PM
I looked inside the slide out control box ! where to start ? 5 or 6 fuses and a billion other things and the control box is about 16" x 16" x 5 " high and full of stuff

thanks   dave
Title: Re: cat 3406 e not starting
Post by: jackhanow on April 17, 2016, 08:43:42 PM
The switch is probalbly some where on the tracks or just try to move it in and out again. Is it level so the side isn't at a slight bind. Good luck.
Title: Re: cat 3406 e not starting
Post by: Dave5Cs on April 17, 2016, 10:52:32 PM
Should be a manual way to put in the slide if it fails. I know some have a crank others are Hydrolic.
Title: Re: cat 3406 e not starting
Post by: sledhead on April 19, 2016, 04:44:07 AM
still not starting ! I tried the main fuse ...no go moved slide in and out but still no go ? it is a "Vertical Arm"
Slide-Out System from hwh

http://www.hwhcorp.com/ml23565b.pdf (http://www.hwhcorp.com/ml23565b.pdf)

thanks   dave  
Title: Re: cat 3406 e not starting
Post by: jackhanow on April 19, 2016, 09:10:06 AM
May sound crazy but is there a main switch for the extender? If so it may need to be in the off position.
Title: Re: cat 3406 e not starting
Post by: Dave5Cs on April 19, 2016, 02:29:19 PM
Just wondering Dave if there is leveling system is one of the legs dropped down and not retracted all the way, if so won't start either on most?
Dave
Title: Re: cat 3406 e not starting
Post by: sledhead on April 19, 2016, 02:50:49 PM
hi guys
not sure what this is ?     main switch for the extender?   the control switch has a key switch  and a rocker switch retract and extend slide and looks like all is good as it has a red light on when it is going in or out but when it is all out or all in the red light goes off

it has a air bag leveling system like my mci ( 8 air bags ) but they are huge and that system is a hwh system as well and it has a parked leveling system and a different driving level system like the mci with auto leveling when driving

dave
Title: Re: cat 3406 e not starting
Post by: jackhanow on April 19, 2016, 06:52:55 PM
The crank signal is the small wire by itself on the solenoid. See if it's getting power when the key is turned or the button is pushed. May be that the starter just died coincidentally. 
Title: Re: cat 3406 e not starting
Post by: luvrbus on April 19, 2016, 07:20:45 PM
Does the shift pad light up showing the transmission in neutral
Title: Re: cat 3406 e not starting
Post by: sledhead on April 20, 2016, 09:19:04 AM
the shift pad lights up and I tried the n-d-n-r-n-d-5 to try to make sure it was in neutral

I have my diesel mechanic guy coming over after dinner tonight  to try and get it to go
I will have him try the solenoid at the starter

would it be to hard for all the r/v manufactures to put in a emergency start system that would by pass the neutral switch and the slide unit plus the leveling unit as a last resort to get you moving !!!! 
if they won't I will ! only to be used in a emergency if needed

its a good thing it is in a nice location because if this where to happen in a camp site how the heck would you ever get a tri axle wrecker in to use the hock to take it to a repair centre

thanks   dave
Title: Re: cat 3406 e not starting
Post by: luvrbus on April 20, 2016, 09:50:52 AM
Do you have manuals ? maybe Jon will come along soon he owns a V5000 with the 550 hp Cat engine.I am sure it's a interlock problem where I have no idea other than the HWH slides   
Title: Re: cat 3406 e not starting
Post by: sledhead on April 20, 2016, 11:09:51 AM
LOTS of binders that came with it but the only one missing is the hwh slide out book .....

just my luck

I was thinking of going over to the prevost site as they made the same year featherlit vogue in a prevost and I am sure most of the outside supplied stuff is the same

thanks   dave
Title: Re: cat 3406 e not starting
Post by: luvrbus on April 20, 2016, 11:35:20 AM
I doubt the Prevost and V5000 are even close the V5000 was Harvey Michell's ground up idea to compete with his neighbor Karl Blades @ Newell.Featherlite only built those for 1 years before shutting down the plant in Pryor Ok I drove by one day and the plant was closed   
Title: Re: cat 3406 e not starting
Post by: sledhead on April 20, 2016, 11:46:21 AM
every thing in the coach has a built in florida address but who knows . from what I could find they made this  model 1999 . 2000 and 2001

hows your french ?   mine sucks!

http://www.autotrader.ca/a/Featherlite+Vogue/VANTAR (http://www.autotrader.ca/a/Featherlite+Vogue/VANTAR)É+VOGUE+5000/Mirabel/Quebec/5_25109957_20060316112858535/?ms=rv

dave  
Title: Re: cat 3406 e not starting
Post by: luvrbus on April 20, 2016, 12:12:29 PM
1999 was the last ones built in Pryor I would like to have the V6000 but very few of those around,it could be Featherlite/ Vantre did build a few 
Title: Re: cat 3406 e not starting
Post by: sledhead on April 20, 2016, 12:28:52 PM
ya the v6000 look amazing but I here they had lots of problems with all the coach electrical stuff . not like I have to worry about that . oh ya it won't start

dave
Title: Re: cat 3406 e not starting
Post by: luvrbus on April 20, 2016, 12:59:31 PM
I spent a lot of time at Vogue in Pryor Ok I would watch the electrical harness being built by hand and think to myself OMG a Amish building a wiring harness
Title: Re: cat 3406 e not starting
Post by: Scott & Heather on April 20, 2016, 07:38:58 PM
If my bus doesn't start....it's:

Dead batteries
No fuel
Too cold


That's it. Haha. Gotta love the mechanical 6v92.

Until you get yours started....then you win the power war :-(


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Title: Re: cat 3406 e not starting
Post by: John Ostmoe on April 20, 2016, 10:56:31 PM
We didn't get the hwh manuals with our v 5000 but hwh has the downloads available on line.
good luck
John
Title: Re: cat 3406 e not starting
Post by: jackhanow on April 21, 2016, 12:50:20 AM
So are You turning the key off at the control switch. I read the manual and it doesn't say anything about safeties built in just that you should let the pump run for 4 seconds after the slide is retracted to pressurize The cylinders.
Title: Re: cat 3406 e not starting
Post by: sledhead on April 21, 2016, 04:32:35 AM
....... ITS ALIVE !!!!!!

my mechanic guy is great ! had it running in about 20 minutes , it was a safety shut down on the remote solenoid right at the rear engine start panel .
we removed the safety wire and grounded the solenoid and it fired right up and drove fine . now we have it narrowed down to the leveling valve and just need to find the bad one but now I can start on the remodel.

life in bus land is good again . now the fun begins

thanks for all the help !     

dave
Title: Re: cat 3406 e not starting
Post by: TomC on April 22, 2016, 06:54:28 AM
When I was selling Freightliners and Western Starts, we would automatically put at least 1 year of warranty tow on new trucks. With all the electronics now on new Diesels (I frankly am amazed they even run), it isn't if, but when you break down. It's not like the old days that driver's could get down the road no matter what.
On my truck with the mechanical Cat 3406B, my shut down solenoid on the fuel injection shorted out turning off the engine in the middle of the Rockies (when you deliver furniture, you go where no other trucks do). So I just removed the solenoid and drove down the road with the hole in the injection pump. A few drops of oil came out, but nothing serious. The next morning when the engine was cold, I cut a piece of aluminum foil and siliconed it in place. I then drove that way for 6 weeks before I found the solenoid-they were on back order-obviously I wasn't the only one with that problem. How did I turn it off? Turned on the Jake brake, rev it a bit, then let it stall itself (Jakes were an after thought and were not installed properly-when in this case I was thankful for). Good Luck, TomC
Title: Re: cat 3406 e not starting
Post by: sledhead on April 22, 2016, 11:12:41 AM
the part that pisses me off is in all the books and binders that came from the dealership for the rv I could not find any trouble shooting ideas ???? 

how hard would it be to give a small amount of advice on a emergency shut down by pass system to get you out of harms way even if it was a max speed of 5 or 10 mph to get off the road or to a better place

some times as we go forward in life we end up going back wards

dave   
Title: Re: cat 3406 e not starting
Post by: Scott & Heather on April 24, 2016, 08:35:43 PM
That's it....with all this scary talk about buses going obsolete and electronics failing and tow companies not wanting to tow us.....I'm going horse and buggy. Big buggy. Like 10 draft horses and 40 foot buggy big.


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Title: Re: cat 3406 e not starting
Post by: luvrbus on April 25, 2016, 03:14:34 AM
Quote from: Scott Bennett on April 24, 2016, 08:35:43 PM
That's it....with all this scary talk about buses going obsolete and electronics failing and tow companies not wanting to tow us.....I'm going horse and buggy. Big buggy. Like 10 draft horses and 40 foot buggy big.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Funny Scott,I been through all of it buses,boats,airplanes and helicopters it is what is enjoy.Now if you want to spend some big money for something totally useless buy you a horse BTDT.
A quote from my granddad "It's only money you can't take it with you but you sure as hell won't go any place with out it".
You full timers do alright if the neighbors piss you off you just move and you own your home.
I don't owe on my home or shop we have never had mortgage in 47 years but I don't own my home I just lease from the taxing authorities.I do admire you guys full timing not a life style for everybody but it makes sense to me now being older and wiser now keep on buddy somebody out will tow the bus  ;D

PS I have seen the Amish in Pryor OK towing a bus with horses before and I still laugh  when it pops into my mind     
Title: Re: cat 3406 e not starting
Post by: DoubleEagle on April 25, 2016, 07:13:05 AM
Quote from: Scott Bennett on April 24, 2016, 08:35:43 PM
That's it....with all this scary talk about buses going obsolete and electronics failing and tow companies not wanting to tow us.....I'm going horse and buggy. Big buggy. Like 10 draft horses and 40 foot buggy big.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Use Shire draft horses, they will go with the coach better, and you might only need six.
Title: Re: cat 3406 e not starting
Post by: uncle ned on April 25, 2016, 08:43:10 AM


Me i want Clydesdale's  they are used to pulling a lot of beer.  It would be more important id broke down.

uncle ned
Title: Re: cat 3406 e not starting
Post by: Scott & Heather on April 25, 2016, 08:53:28 AM
LOL you guys always keep me laughing! :-) We are driving home to Michigan finally leaving Texas after a year and a half hoping for no breakdowns and hoping we don't get stuck in tomorrow's nasty weather in St. Louis Missouri


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Title: Re: cat 3406 e not starting
Post by: DoubleEagle on April 25, 2016, 07:44:21 PM
Quote from: uncle ned on April 25, 2016, 08:43:10 AM

Me i want Clydesdale's  they are used to pulling a lot of beer.  It would be more important id broke down.

uncle ned

They are similar breeds, they both have feathered hooves, and they could both pull a bus full of beer, its just that the black and white Shires would look better next to Scott's bus.