Now that the weather has turned, I'm gearing up to pull the DD S-40 from my '99 Gillig Low Floor. Thinking about ways to move it. Working outside on grass, but I'll put down some sort of wooden floor. Not much room over the engine for a hoist.
I've considered renting or buying a fork lift, but I'd rather not. My current thinking is that a cradle dolly on four rubber tires might do the trick. It would need something like a scissor lift. Anyone done this or have helpful ideas? I've not found anything on the web.
TIA
Jim in NC
P.S. This engine is identical to an International DT530E if that helps your thinking.
Jim, a pallet jack is your best friend it's so easy to make a cradle for the engine to use a pallet jack,and they are cheap around 250 bucks new. You will need a good a couple of sheets of floor decking plywood
I would think of moving coach away from engine instead of moving engine away from coach. You could use a pallet jack with pallet and secure engine to it with three or four ratchet straps to keep it upright. Jack it up enough to just release from coach and then move coach away from it.
1/4 in angle iron made to set on the pallet jack I never use straps,took me about 30 minutes to fab the front and rear cradle to pull my series 60 I thought about modifying the ones for the 92 and 71 but just built another set so I had both.Rolling the bus works too but sorta of a PITA leveling, plugging air lines,airing up and pulling the bus then pushing it back
Pallet jack is a great idea. Thanks Clifford.
I'll be moving the engine and not the bus. We live in the bus, and it will be blocked high and level by the time the engine is loose.
Seems a shame that the industrial pallet jack I've had for 25 years was stolen last summer. Oh well....
Jim
They had a cradle for the 4104's and I know that Steve Weatherford has used one in different applications.
Hi Jim. Glad to hear from you, but sorry about the engine. Check Craig's List for a pallet jack. I got mine for free. Lots of folks buy them and use them once and then trip over them for the next five years----Jack
HD and Lowes replace pallet jacks every so often ask a manger sometimes they will give you one if you ask nice ::)
You can also use quarter of an inch channel four inches wide etc to place under the dolly wheels,should be strong enough,just a thought. May need to lock them together to keep them from turning over,moving etc.
Pallet jacks are normally 48" long. They make longer pallet jacks that are around 7ft long-that's what you should use since the 6cylinder is longer than a 8V. Make a cradle out of wood and the pallet jack and you should be able to pull the engine. Course with a couple of sheets of 3/4" plywood underneath. Good Luck, TomC
I think the small front wheels of a pallet jack will dig in to plywood and be hard to pull. I would rather use steel channel or some similar steel to make it easier to roll.
When I pulled the engine out of my Courier 96, I built a rolling cradle with rails on top that matches the height and diameter of the bus's cradle (3" if I remember). I pulled the engine out of the bus and onto it with a come-along. I pulled it back in with the come-along. I used pry bars for the last few inches. Worked good for me. My cradle has caster wheels to roll it around in the shop. I remember one wheel breaking. It is heavy!
JC
+1 on Pallet jack because dollies are horrible when heavily weighted on anything but a perfect surface. and even then the load has to be well balanced....pallet jacks are more forgiving re surface and balance.
http://www.globalindustrial.com/g/material-handling/pallet-trucks-jacks/premium/wesco-extra-long-fork-pallet-jack-truck (http://www.globalindustrial.com/g/material-handling/pallet-trucks-jacks/premium/wesco-extra-long-fork-pallet-jack-truck)
Thanks so much to all who've responded. All the input is helpful and much appreciated.
Jim
Quote from: Lostranger on April 07, 2016, 09:49:00 AMThanks so much to all who've responded. All the input is helpful and much appreciated.
Jim
Best wishes from me, too, Jim. Hope you get it set up and everything goes easily.
Will the tranny come out with the engine? Consider renting a properly rated HD engine hoist? Chains not cables. Big bolts. Also consider a firm concrete surface for the hoist to roll back on. Positive mechanical assistance.
Also a winch to pull back the engine hoist. Or ... a firm surface for the hoist or perhaps jack but some way to safely move the Bus Conversion away from the engine assembly which would stay still and let the bus move forward.
Perhaps also assisted with a winch? Chock blocks? Big heavy stuff. Think safety. Go slow. Have the proper tools and attitude. Most of all sing songs and have fun doing this. Psycho drama works well with this fun stuff. :)
I am presently installing my cradle back into the bus and I would not be wanting to install this on anything but a concrete floor.
You may be able to remove it, on plywood but IMHO you would be losing all maneuver ability on a softer surface. :)
Quote from: HB of CJ on April 07, 2016, 02:36:12 PM... Big heavy stuff. Think safety. Go slow. Have the proper tools and attitude. Most of all sing songs and have fun doing this. Psycho drama works well with this fun stuff. :) ...
Yep, thinking safety all the time.
BTDT on the side of the road with a GM a sheet of 1 inch floor decking will hold up with pallet jack as long as it is level and flat I bought a couple of bags of sand at the same time to level the area fwiw. ;D I do like my concrete floors better you are not as limited
And a piece of steel plate on top of the plywood, Maybe plant a nice umbrella tree for shade as you work. Not to tall just right and maybe have coffee delivered every hour to keep up the mind set and I'm with HB with the music as well as non slippery shoes in Beige possibly. ;D
Dave5cs
Quote from: Dave5Cs on April 08, 2016, 08:43:53 AM
And a piece of steel plate on top of the plywood, Maybe plant a nice umbrella tree for shade as you work. Not to tall just right and maybe have coffee delivered every hour to keep up the mind set and I'm with HB with the music as well as non slippery shoes in Beige possibly. ;D
Dave5cs
At some point the coffee stops on to bigger and better drinks ;D
Sure sounds like a party. Why don't all of you stop by (bring whatever tools you like), and I'll supply the beverages of choice.
Jim
So.... I'm reading the factory service manual, and it shows a drawing of the engine removal cradle Gillig sells. It looks remarkably like what I had in mind building when I started this thread. Even has the scissor lift that I envisioned, and it has much more reach than any pallet jack.
Since the bus will be blocked up, extra lift would be a good thing. I'm back to thinking that building a rolling cradle is the way to go. The Gillig drawing is clear enough to give me something to work with, and the engine will be securely bolted to it.
I didn't have a problem rolling a series 40 with a b400 with a pallet jack when I replaced the number 5 piston,less than 2 hours to roll it out. You better go to HD and buy a couple of the $6 -9 gal mortar mix tubs to catch the fluids they are a lot better than 5 gal buckets
Here are the two drawings of the rolling engine removal cradle in Gillig's shop manual:
(https://busconversionmagazine.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi63.tinypic.com%2F29vgumx.jpg&hash=782324eca7baff997e30b85aab70ec451332be10)
(https://busconversionmagazine.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi64.tinypic.com%2F292pg5u.jpg&hash=ffdc312dba2e123651d009f44f9b34704d2a9953)
I do believe that building one of these will be a little more trouble but not much more expense than a good pallet jack for which I would still need to build an engine/transmission cradle. Also, I would not have to find a pallet jack with long forks.
Jim
That looks almost identical to one of the older OTC engine dolly,I haven't seen those for sale in quite awhile now. A pallet jack with 48 in forks will do the job for you easy enough the engine is only 44 inches long and weighs 1400 lbs that is 500 lbs more than the b400 so balance is not a issue, rent you one by the month they rent cheap at HD
good luck
Quote from: Lostranger on April 11, 2016, 01:41:17 PM
Here are the two drawings of the rolling engine removal cradle in Gillig's shop manual:
(https://busconversionmagazine.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi63.tinypic.com%2F29vgumx.jpg&hash=782324eca7baff997e30b85aab70ec451332be10)
(https://busconversionmagazine.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi64.tinypic.com%2F292pg5u.jpg&hash=ffdc312dba2e123651d009f44f9b34704d2a9953)
I do believe that building one of these will be a little more trouble but not much more expense than a good pallet jack for which I would still need to build an engine/transmission cradle. Also, I would not have to find a pallet jack with long forks.
Jim
That sure looks like what I'm gonna need here in a few weeks. For my bus, I have a BIG firewall mod to do to allow the Allison to go in so I thought I'd fit the transmission alone, then bolt the two together and do the final install as the unit of the trans and engine.
If a $50. pallet jack was available welding to it would be my choice...I would consider renting one and welding some of that structure to it...me and my milwaukee grinder could return it in better condition than recieved :)
I don't weld to my jack I use channel on top of the forks and weld to channel,the way I see it is how many times are you going to use the cradle hopefully only once
I believe Jim just wants a new toy but I may be wrong, I was once!... ;D
Dave5Cs
Quote from: luvrbus on April 11, 2016, 02:12:56 PM
A pallet jack with 48 in forks will do the job.
Thanks, Clifford. That was one of my questions.
Jim
A friend used a pair of mobile home axles to swap the engine in his PD4501. No concrete, just grass & dirt. Had about 4 feet of elevation change between the donor bus & the good one.
House post jacks may be suitable for giving the adjustability you need. I have the axles if you want them.
Good luck with the project!
Was in Harbor Freight this weekend. Saw their pallet jack. It was $260. Kinda suprised by that, as I was expecting it to be in the $160 range.