I've only seen the blade type valves used on the waste tank drains.
Is there any reason to not use a 3" ball valve?
They are cheap, compact and easy to change
I can't seem to get mine to seal drip tight -and I don't particularly care for the mess when I remove the cap. :(
I'm doing some changes in that area, and since the valve is glued in on mine - it will have to be replaced with a new valve - and have a 3" PVC ball valve. . . .
I think the ball valve will work fine,the reason for the gate valve was posted above!
Wes
I hate hate valves too. As full timers I think they are the pits. I would like to put ball values in my new coach.
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The previous owner of my DL3 installed ball valves on the tanks I love them no leaks waiting to happen.I had electric valves on another bus I don't want to deal with those again ???
LOL. I saw electric valves on a right hand side dump of a tour bus and questioned the driver about them, he just blushed, turned around and walked away.
Quote from: kyle4501 on April 03, 2016, 05:31:36 PM
Is there any reason to not use a 3" ball valve?
Kyle -The problem with most
PVC ball valves isn't' the ball, it's the handle that controls the ball.
After 3-4 years, the handle breaks, and then it becomes a nightmare trying to find someone who will sell you just a handle - they'd rather sell you the whole valve. In the meantime, dig out the crescent wrench to open and close the valve stem. . .
Just an observation from someone who's had to replace a whole bunch of PVC ball valves over the last 15 years. . .
OTOH, if you want to think outside the box a little, you could try one of these valves:
http://www.amazon.com/Jandy-4718-2-Port-Positive-NeverLube/dp/B002SG7NYU (http://www.amazon.com/Jandy-4718-2-Port-Positive-NeverLube/dp/B002SG7NYU)
FWIW & HTH. . .
;)
Agree with RJ and I too deal with them until either the handle breaks or the ball valve won't open or close all the way and then the handle breaks. We use them for water on the ranch 3/4" up to 5" and they all get replaced with Stainless steel or brass. Yes they are expensive but no more problems.
Dave5Cs
Quote from: Dave5Cs on April 04, 2016, 07:03:57 AM
Agree with RJ and I too deal with them until either the handle breaks or the ball valve won't open or close all the way and then the handle breaks. We use them for water on the ranch 3/4" up to 5" and they all get replaced with Stainless steel or brass. Yes they are expensive but no more problems.
Dave5Cs
I aalways say...go big or stay home :) (https://busconversionmagazine.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.opwglobal.com%2FModules%2FProducts%2Fimage.axd%3Fid%3D5240&hash=1bfef22b3fdf2b8113be31f55fcc29ba924d623e)
Gate valves are available at all RV outlet stores. But-Everyone is correct-they do not seal as well as Ball valve and the gate valves get stiff with age. Good Luck, TomC
RV gate valves cost very little and only take 10 minutes to replace.
JC
If you guys breaking the handles on ball valves most of the time that is caused by the sun rays you don't have that problem inside a bay. They would break and we had to replace ours on the pool about every year, we changed pool people and he painted all the piping and valves exposed to the sunlight and we never had another problem for 5 years.A good 3 inch ball valve will cost you though
The only problem with a ball valve that I see is if everything is not drained there is whatever you were draining left in the ball. Just a thought
Melbo
Thanks for the input.
Since mine is glued in, ain't nothing going to be easy about replacing it.
I am changing the sewer hose connection to be outside the bay under the floor. I'm going to try the 3" PVC ball valve off Ebay & see how long it works. :)
Clifford mine are all inside or in ground boxes so no sun on them. Good try though, Lol :) ;D ::)
Dave5Cs
I would recommend valterra slide valves pricey but very good valves, the problem with ball valves is not only the handle, but if any moisture is held within the valve is very apt to freeze and break so you need to leave the handle at a 45 degree angle when winterizing so nothing can be trapped, a ball valve is never recommended for a holding system, besides slide valves are very easy to replace 4 bolts and your done. good luck>>> John.
You can buy good slice valves,I replaced the 3 in on the van with one that had a SS paddle it was pricey compared to the Camping World crap it cost me over 50 bucks.Wasn't enough room on the van for a ball valve and I didn't want another cheap RV dump valve so I paid a little more
Quote from: goutoe on April 04, 2016, 02:38:25 PM
I would recommend valterra slide valves pricey but very good valves, the problem with ball valves is not only the handle, but if any moisture is held within the valve is very apt to freeze and break so you need to leave the handle at a 45 degree angle when winterizing so nothing can be trapped, a ball valve is never recommended for a holding system, besides slide valves are very easy to replace 4 bolts and your done. good luck>>> John.
If the tank is empty when the valve is closed. . . .
If there is sufficient waste in the tank to fill the cavity in the ball valve, won't there will be equal freeze problems in the piping to the valve?
I'll look into the Valterra valves tho . . . .
Kyle, if you exit underneath the bay, you're not going to have much slope to the sewer connection...
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Quote from: Scott Bennett on April 04, 2016, 07:51:33 PM
Kyle, if you exit underneath the bay, you're not going to have much slope to the sewer connection...
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Good thought, but that won't cause a problem for this application.
I'll have more height than the Airstream had.
My Newell isn't as close to the ground as the Scenicruiser is. Even when the air bags are flat, I still have enough room to shimmy under the coach.
Kyle, when a ball valve is closed any water left in the valve is sealed in, it has no where to go if it freezes it will break the body, same goes in an open mode any water left behind the seal would freeze, therefore the valve needs to be partially open when winterized, in my line of work Ive seen hundreds of ball valves freeze mostly brass ones on lawn irrigation backflow preventers, dont get me wrong the ball valve is the best thing out there in the right application, keep in mind if you choose to use slide valves to keep the main body higher than the top of the pipe in case the seal on the slide would fail. hope this helps.>>> John.
John,
Good point about freezing, but in this application for the waste tank drain, the valve will be empty when closed. If water leaks into the valve after it is closed, wouldn't it time to replace the valve anyway?
The reason I want to use a ball valve is because the slide valves I have used in the past ALL leak. Haven't had leakage problems with ball valves. . . . . yet.
Also, there are a bunch of brass ball valves in that bay for the pressurized water service - which means the ball will be full of water when closed - bigger problem for freezing.
As for winterizing, I follow the factory's recommended procedure -
1) park inside
2) plug in
3) ensure bay heaters are on
I then relax knowing coach is ready to go as soon as I am ;D
Kyle, What ever kind of valves you choose you may want to consider using fernco couplings on your p.v.c piping, it makes things alot easier for the next time that they need changed, I only had about 6" between my black tank and the slide valve, so I bought a socket fernco to go over the socket on the tank and also over the socket on the valterra valve ( the socket is the outside of the coupling or fitting ) and the rubber fernco acts as a vibration dampener it worked great on my bus, I have 3 slide valves in a very small area. I like your winterization program, unfortunately I dont have an indoor option, just a big carport, it gets way below zero here in Nebraska! good luck with your project.>>>> John.
John,
The frenco coupling is my safety net in case the glued fittings don't work out as well as I hope.
Here in SC, we don't often get below 0 deg F.
My method of winterizing works well -- IF -- the power stays on. Haven't lost power for over a few hours in the last 23 years, so . . . . .
Thanks!
Just custom built all three holding tanks out of polypropylene and used fernco fittings between the spigot flange on the tank fitting and spigot flange on a Valterra gate valve. Ordered separate gate valve bodies and separate flanges depending on application for under $25 each off Amazon. Replacement seals are only $5-$6 with new hardware and can be changed in 15 minutes. Get the metal blade handles, seem to last better. Also ordered the bayonet flange for the black tank. I cut a short section of 4" PVC thin wall drain pipe in half lengthwise and place that under the end of the bayonet flange where sewer hose attaches to extend past the bay lip and any dribbling water doesn't end up in bay when disconnecting sewer hose. With the fernco fittings the vibration is absorbed and I can remove the whole valve configuration if I want to pull out the tank(s) if needed. Also a waterbed heater works good under the tanks, or between them to prevent freezing.
The trick with the ball valves is to buy nice $$$ ball valves. Go for the SCH 80 high end valves, and they will last forever.
Glad you spent the money for the $$$ ball valve John and I like it
Quote from: luvrbus on April 13, 2016, 07:24:02 AM
Glad you spent the money for the $$$ ball valve John and I like it
We liked them too, Clifford. We got tired of those dumb blade valves. They would always leak and were a pain to deal with. Glad those are still working well for you!
I put Valterra slide valves in mine back in 2005. I also bought a set of replacement gaskets for them. Have never had to put them in. Have never had a leak.
My father-in-law put in an electric dump valve. It was nothing but trouble.
Just to confirm some above information I have an irrigation system that all the controls are in a vault in the ground. ( i didn't think it would get cold enough to freeze ) I was starting thing this spring and a 2 inch ball valve was broke in a bunch of pieces. The valve was in the closed position. The rest of the valves were in the open position and it good shape. I have one ball valve in our bus that lets me run gray water through the black tank. That valve is always closed but I think the line is empty most of the times when I shut it. Maybe a brass valve will take a freeze but a plastic one will not.
Wayne
Quote from: rusty on April 14, 2016, 05:56:39 AM
Maybe a brass valve will take a freeze but a plastic one will not.
No. I had one break in my bus because I had closed it with water in it and forgot to open it when I blew out the system. Lesson learned.
2004 MODEL Valterra blades here too....no problems either. perhaps the vintage valves are made in the USA ;D
Kyle: All the blade valves I've seen have 4 bolts that sandwich the valve body between the flanges. Remove bolts, replace valve section, replace bolts with stainless ones with nylok nuts (the kind with nylon insert which keeps it from loosening).
Eagle: That looks like a $500 part!
I've always worried that a turd might get stuck in a ball valve. A blade would slice right through, lol! besides, the blade valves are easier to operate, and are available with a twist-locking mechanism in the closed position.
Good day.
Quote from: TedCalvert on April 17, 2016, 07:32:03 AM
I've always worried that a turd might get stuck in a ball valve. A blade would slice right through, lol! besides, the blade valves are easier to operate, and are available with a twist-locking mechanism in the closed position.
Good day.
Why close the main drain valve before the tank is empty? ???
Hose come off? I dunno. It could happen!
Quote from: TedCalvert on April 17, 2016, 06:48:02 PM
Hose come off? I dunno. It could happen!
Stranger things have happened. :o
I have only had RV blade valves on three RV's for the past 30 years. I suppose I just didn't know any better but never knew they were a problem. I hate it when you guys awaken me to something new to be concerned about. I'm already afraid to go to Yellowstone because of the super volcano!
found out the hard way about trying to close the crapper valve when it still had crap in the tank . I was using one of those crapper wagons from CW that only held 20 gal. had to slice the crap in half to close it . the life of a camper !
dave
See what I mean, Kyle? Hit shappens, lol!
I have one of those 20 gal crapper wagons - got it for the Airstream. Now, I have a larger waste tank in the coach, so - I'll never use it again.
Everyone talks about being able to repair the blade valve. My desire is to use a valve that will not need so much attention.
Lin, the blade valves wouldn't be made so easy to rebuild if they didn't need it - frequently. The ones I've used don't leak often, but do leak more than I want to deal with. May be more of an issue of back pressure - my tanks are tall.
It seems the biggest issue against ball valves is the length required. The cost can be a bit of a bother too.
Freezing will cause problems regardless of valves used.
Thanks Dave, I just woke my wife up because I burst out laughing.
Seriously though, without getting crude, I have a couple of thoughts on this:
If a Baby Ruth were to get caught in the opening of a ball valve and you wanted to close it off, it would slice it just as easily as a blade valve. You have decent leverage with a ball valve lever and the mere action and system of a ball valve doesn't make it any more difficult to turn off mid steam.
True, your ball valve might trap a small amount of liquid while in the turned off position, but so what? Your tank is holding a small amount of leftovers that can't drain over the slight rise of your drain bung. So unless you installed true sump drain tanks, you're always going to have leftovers so a tablespoon of it in your ball valve isn't going to make any difference.
Those blade valves are really an issue. How many of you Fulltime with those? Seriously every single time I go to close it off, toilet paper or poo get in there and I can't quite shut it off completely. I have to drain the tank and then take a rubber gloved hand and sweep the nasties out of the rubber seal groove to get the blade to close all the way. Ball valve would be self cleaning every time it sweeps inside its socket. Guys, it's just makes sense to me. I'm a 5 year Fulltimer and I'm always game for ways to make the sewer part of this friendlier.
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How many of you Full-time with those ?
me.... which is probably reason enough not too... ???
i will admit tho, i am double Valterra valved.
3" ball valve (threaded) in Central New Mexico since 2010. No problems. I do have heat tape on the drains. I had to change out a crappy RV valve when one (guess which tank) froze and broke on the old Class C while in S. GA one year. Yes, I fulltime.
Guess I'm still asleep this morning, what is a threaded ball valve?
Quote from: digesterman on May 04, 2016, 04:24:45 AM
Guess I'm still asleep this morning, what is a threaded ball valve?
He is probably talking about a regular ball valve, where the connections are threaded.
http://www.grainger.com/product/4TJF2?gclid=CjwKEAjwu6a5BRC53sW0w9677RcSJABoFn4spz7K9D57QFmX3uGZb_Jn6fCTG7kZEa6RlmmQVfPcvhoCu2Hw_wcB&cm_mmc=PPC:GOOGLEPLAA-_-Plumbing-_-Shut-Off%20Valves-_-4TJF2&AL!2966!3!50916761037!!!g!82128379077!&s_kwcid=AL!2966!3!50916761037!!!g!82128379077!&ef_id=VouxWgAAAEPxNzsI:20160504125354:s (http://www.grainger.com/product/4TJF2?gclid=CjwKEAjwu6a5BRC53sW0w9677RcSJABoFn4spz7K9D57QFmX3uGZb_Jn6fCTG7kZEa6RlmmQVfPcvhoCu2Hw_wcB&cm_mmc=PPC:GOOGLEPLAA-_-Plumbing-_-Shut-Off%20Valves-_-4TJF2&AL!2966!3!50916761037!!!g!82128379077!&s_kwcid=AL!2966!3!50916761037!!!g!82128379077!&ef_id=VouxWgAAAEPxNzsI:20160504125354:s)
Thanks John, that makes sense, needed to wake up I guess