How do you adjust the idle on an 8V71? Ist in a 4106. Cant get into any gear unless i turn it off first. Also need to check the clutch adjustment but dont know how to do that either. Thanks in advance!
in neutral the idle shouldn't really matter...sort of... if you have no clutch brake or you are totally out of adjustment.. you could probably be idling at 100 rpm and still never engage 1st gear while running.
What is your idle set at now ?
My bet is you have no clutch brake...and your linkage is out of adjustment.
Normally the idle on a Detroit is set and there you go ... set for life....
But, not being fully versed on your coach... I could be wrong...I was once..
There are several on-line manuals that tell you how to adjust the idle on a DD 8V-71, unfortunately it's not a one line explanation and parts of it have the potential for being expensive. It's part of a general tune up. No clutch brake on your bus, and if the clutch drags it can be impossible to shift into first with the engine running. The GM guys can direct you to advice on how to adjust your clutch. Sorry not to be of more help. This link might work, or google 8V-71 adjust idle
https://www.google.ca/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=7&ved=0ahUKEwiJxuvIvvPLAhVIbR4KHUJUDyUQFgg8MAY&url=https%3A%2F%2Fbrandon314.files.wordpress.com%2F2012%2F05%2Fdetroit-6-71-valve-injector-and-governor-adjustment-procedure.pdf&usg=AFQjCNHcGA7YCg5PfPWFWEeIowkLWenggg&cad=rja (https://www.google.ca/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=7&ved=0ahUKEwiJxuvIvvPLAhVIbR4KHUJUDyUQFgg8MAY&url=https%3A%2F%2Fbrandon314.files.wordpress.com%2F2012%2F05%2Fdetroit-6-71-valve-injector-and-governor-adjustment-procedure.pdf&usg=AFQjCNHcGA7YCg5PfPWFWEeIowkLWenggg&cad=rja)
Brian
Quote from: eagle19952 on April 03, 2016, 01:41:16 PM
in neutral the idle shouldn't really matter...sort of... if you have no clutch brake or you are totally out of adjustment.. you could probably be idling at 100 rpm and still never engage 1st gear while running.
What is your idle set at now ?
My bet is you have no clutch brake...and your linkage is out of adjustment.
Normally the idle on a Detroit is set and there you go ... set for life....
But, not being fully versed on your coach... I could be wrong...I was once..
Yeah i come from the gas burner world so this whole deisel thing is totally new to me.
Quote from: bevans6 on April 03, 2016, 03:17:56 PM
There are several on-line manuals that tell you how to adjust the idle on a DD 8V-71, unfortunately it's not a one line explanation and parts of it have the potential for being expensive. It's part of a general tune up. No clutch brake on your bus, and if the clutch drags it can be impossible to shift into first with the engine running. The GM guys can direct you to advice on how to adjust your clutch. Sorry not to be of more help. This link might work, or google 8V-71 adjust idle
https://www.google.ca/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=7&ved=0ahUKEwiJxuvIvvPLAhVIbR4KHUJUDyUQFgg8MAY&url=https%3A%2F%2Fbrandon314.files.wordpress.com%2F2012%2F05%2Fdetroit-6-71-valve-injector-and-governor-adjustment-procedure.pdf&usg=AFQjCNHcGA7YCg5PfPWFWEeIowkLWenggg&cad=rja (https://www.google.ca/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=7&ved=0ahUKEwiJxuvIvvPLAhVIbR4KHUJUDyUQFgg8MAY&url=https%3A%2F%2Fbrandon314.files.wordpress.com%2F2012%2F05%2Fdetroit-6-71-valve-injector-and-governor-adjustment-procedure.pdf&usg=AFQjCNHcGA7YCg5PfPWFWEeIowkLWenggg&cad=rja)
Brian
Cool pdf, saved. Thank you! Yeah its definitely dragging as i tried to start it in first and the bus jerked, so definitely out of whack! I have a few days of dry weather so im hoping to get this baby freed from the swamp of a back yard and into the driveway.
Thanks for the replies!
Did it just jerk or did it kill the engine or won't it start while in gear with pedal down? Could be stuck to pressure plate or flywheel. How about idle till air is up, release brakes, stop engine put it in gear with clutch out and start it and once it is moving, push clutch in. If it doesn't release then, hold clutch in and apply full engine power for a second or two to release it. First, do watch linkage at engine while someone pushes pedal down. There should be a little free play at the pedal, maybe an inch before release arm actually starts moving throwout bearing and significant increase in pedal pressure.
Quote from: chessie4905 on April 03, 2016, 05:23:12 PM
Did it just jerk or did it kill the engine or won't it start while in gear with pedal down? Could be stuck to pressure plate or flywheel. How about idle till air is up, release brakes, stop engine put it in gear with clutch out and start it and once it is moving, push clutch in. If it doesn't release then, hold clutch in and apply full engine power for a second or two to release it. First, do watch linkage at engine while someone pushes pedal down. There should be a little free play at the pedal, maybe an inch before release arm actually starts moving throwout bearing and significant increase in pedal pressure.
Yeah it jerked the whole bus forward and wouldnt start. Put it in neutral and it fires up. Wont go into any gear at any speed. We had it moving around the yard. It was in the back of a field for about six years lost in the bushes sinking in the mud.
The accelerator cable is totally rusted in the tube somewhere.
Ill have my friend mess with the clutch pedal tomorrow morning and ill check at the tranny.
Air leaks, it has plenty on top of the two already blown bags.
Thanks for the help y'all. I got some reading and messin to do tomorrow morning.
I thought the tube the throttle cable was in is made of brass to avoid rusting. Make sure the problem isn't at the bellcrank or at the engine area. It could be worn through the tube where it makes a bend behind the engine.
Quote from: chessie4905 on April 03, 2016, 07:21:27 PM
I thought the tube the throttle cable was in is made of brass to avoid rusting. Make sure the problem isn't at the bellcrank or at the engine area. It could be worn through the tube where it makes a bend behind the engine.
Again im totally new to deisel stuff and big buses so you are probably correct. It is disconnected at the engine and at the pedal assembly. The cable wont budge at all. What is this bellcrank and where might i find it? From what i can see up front it looks like a metal line is going to the bracket the cable bolts to, then disappears into the body, and ends up as a definite cable at the engine. I cant get photobucket to work on my phone, and i dont have a computer or id have pictures for reference.
Quote from: TheMightyQuinn on April 03, 2016, 08:36:32 PM
Again im totally new to deisel stuff and big buses so you are probably correct. It is disconnected at the engine and at the pedal assembly. The cable wont budge at all. What is this bellcrank and where might i find it? From what i can see up front it looks like a metal line is going to the bracket the cable bolts to, then disappears into the body, and ends up as a definite cable at the engine. I cant get photobucket to work on my phone, and i dont have a computer or id have pictures for reference.
Here is a little tidbit I do know...IF you remove the cable..to do anything...it is my understanding that there are two adjusting/retaining wedges... the are made of unobtainium...not to be lost misplaced or given to anyone (but yourself) to mind, safe keep, or otherwise forget... ;D >:( ;D :o :o :o :o :o
Quote from: eagle19952 on April 04, 2016, 07:45:40 AM
Here is a little tidbit I do know...IF you remove the cable..to do anything...it is my understanding that there are two adjusting/retaining wedges... the are made of unobtainium...not to be lost misplaced or given to anyone (but yourself) to mind, safe keep, or otherwise forget... ;D >:( ;D :o :o :o :o :o
Gotcha and thanks for the heads up. Got some wiring to figure out then ill hopefully get her moved to some harder ground so i can actually work on this thing. The cable is seized somewhere in the body so when/if i get it out ill keep an eye out for those clips.
Anyone have a wiring diagram for a 4107 by chance? All the cloth wiring from '66 has faded to the same color
There is a video on my YouTube Chanel that shoes hot to,remove the cable. It's really easy.
Check out this video on YouTube:
http://youtu.be/sZ05IXUSbKU (http://youtu.be/sZ05IXUSbKU)
Quote from: Scott Crosby on April 06, 2016, 07:58:07 AM
There is a video on my YouTube Chanel that shoes hot to,remove the cable. It's really easy.
Check out this video on YouTube:
http://youtu.be/sZ05IXUSbKU (http://youtu.be/sZ05IXUSbKU)
OMG awesome! Id have disassembled everything before i found that out! Thank you!!!
Ok, got the cable out no problem. Actually looks like its recently been serviced? Anyways, its at the front slide-ie mechanism. I have the u-bracket disconnected from the pedal and pivot assembly which all moves free. If the front end is the same as the rear the bigger tube with the u bracket should grip the cable and slide on a smaller tube forwards, correct?ive sprayed a can of penetrating oil on the end where the smaller tube goes into the bigger one.
Yall are awesome!
Ok, after breaking some 550 parachute cord and two expensive ratchet straps ive finally gotten the front assembly apart, cleaned, lubed and reassembled. Got pedal now, yay!
Replaced the starter solenoid. Found my short... Now she fires up perfectly everytime.
Still cannot get this pig into any gear at any time. Tried flooring the engine to try and free up the clutch, no luck. Tranny speeds up. Definitely not disengaging. It worked a week ago when we pulled it out if its grave, but now nothing. Can someone please give me the procedure for adjusting this mechanical nightmare? Im running out of time to be able to rescue this thing and move it off of this property. Either that or is anyone around the north atlanta suburbs??
Did you try to get it into ANY gear?
With some of these, you couldn't readily get into 1st at a stop, slipped into 3 or 4 and then slide to 1st kept the grinding noises to a minimum.
Never took it out of gear, always slipped to first as you rolled to a stop, clutch in the whole time at the light.
Those were the days.... sure was fit...
happy coaching!
buswarrior
Does the pedal work at the transmission ? it could be 1 disk is is stuck or the pilot bearing is frozen.Try this build up air pressure leave the parking brake on shut the engine off shift the transmission into 4 th gear and start the engine holding the pedal down if it rust or the pilot bearing is the problem it will brake it loose. Another question is that a dry clutch or wet clutch
Quote from: luvrbus on April 08, 2016, 01:36:05 PM
Does the pedal work at the transmission ? it could be 1 disk is is stuck or the pilot bearing is frozen.Try this build up air pressure leave the parking brake on shut the engine off shift the transmission into 4 th gear and start the engine holding the pedal down if it rust or the pilot bearing is the problem it will brake it loose. Another question is that a dry clutch or wet clutch
Yeah all of the levers and such are moving at the tranny. Doesnt seem to have any super excessive play, but a bit more than an inch. Pretty sure its dry
Quote from: buswarrior on April 08, 2016, 01:29:40 PM
Did you try to get it into ANY gear?
With some of these, you couldn't readily get into 1st at a stop, slipped into 3 or 4 and then slide to 1st kept the grinding noises to a minimum.
Never took it out of gear, always slipped to first as you rolled to a stop, clutch in the whole time at the light.
Those were the days.... sure was fit...
happy coaching!
buswarrior
No she wouldnt go into any gear at all. Finally just let it grind like H E double and it finally went into second, i gave it some throttle and moved about a foot, then fought to get it into reverse. But once i got her backing up, i could get it into gears with minimal grinding. Probably just not woke up yet. This poor old bus was sitting in a field for over six years sinking about a foot in the mud. Got her moved out and onto some hard levelish ground so i can work on the air lines.
Im used to old crashbox transmissions out of 40's-50's VW's so i know a little about shifting them, but i guess the spicer is a totally different breed!
I cant thank you all enough for the tips and help on this old thing. She will be a road queen again soon!
Until you fix the clutch, instead of grinding the dog teeth inside the box and causing damage you can't fix, why not just start it in gear, clutch in? If the engine will run with it in gear and the clutch in, it's dragging not seized, so if it's warm it will start in gear with the clutch in. Please stop grinding the gears for no reason... :(
If it's like most GM's I come across people have filled the transmissions with 85/140 W gear lube that really helps with shifting and real good on the transmissions pumps ??? A GM is almost impossible to shift when filled with gear lube
Uh, luvrbus, the novice reader may not pick up on the sarcasm... where can one purchase this magical 85/140W in sufficient quantity? My local store only carries those small quart squeeze bottles, will this work well in the automatics also?
Happy coaching!
buswarrior
The clutch is the problem, the Spicer is innocent and holding up despite the grinding.
It's hard to say what the problem is he may have the mouse trap on a dry clutch those can be tricky to adjust for clutch performance.I would still like to know if the transmission has 50w oil or transmission grease
Quote from: bevans6 on April 09, 2016, 05:12:03 AM
Until you fix the clutch, instead of grinding the dog teeth inside the box and causing damage you can't fix, why not just start it in gear, clutch in? If the engine will run with it in gear and the clutch in, it's dragging not seized, so if it's warm it will start in gear with the clutch in. Please stop grinding the gears for no reason... :(
It wouldnt start in gear, any gear. The engine wouldnt even turn over. But as i said, once i was able to get it into gear, it freed up so i was able to move it around. Its working fine now. No more grinding. The plate was stuck pretty badly, but again seems to be working great now.
Quote from: luvrbus on April 09, 2016, 06:27:31 AM
If it's like most GM's I come across people have filled the transmissions with 85/140 W gear lube that really helps with shifting and real good on the transmissions pumps ??? A GM is almost impossible to shift when filled with gear lube
Ill have to do that and try it. Its definitely going to get a full fluid flush.
Quote from: luvrbus on April 09, 2016, 09:37:48 AM
It's hard to say what the problem is he may have the mouse trap on a dry clutch those can be tricky to adjust for clutch performance.I would still like to know if the transmission has 50w oil or transmission grease
I dont know what type of lube it has in it. Probably gear oil. Ill definitely try the 85/140 mix though.
Thanks again y'all. Shes coming along now. I have all of the manuals coming hopefully next week so i can start to educate myself on this thing. Cant wait for the first test drive!
He was kidding about the 85-140 gear grease. Usually they use engine oil, or manual transmission oil, SAE 50 weight, but look in your new manual when you get it.
I was kidding the GM has a Barnes gear pump to lube the transmission I think 50w is what they use the 85/140 the Barnes will not pump.I have a Barnes pump if any of the GM people need one yours for only the shipping costs fwiw
I thought it was the clutch, I have been through that a few times with various vehicles. You old timers should not kid about gear grease, people new to this have enough to worry about without getting confused further. (I am in my seventies as well).