I know it's been discussed many times and I have read previous posts on here but here goes.My 1960 4104 has 12r22.5 tires on it now that are 10 years old plus, threads are brand new but noticing sidewall cracking , My question is , can I go with the 11r22.5 as replacements with out any real major performance issues ,from my research they are 1" shorter and little less carrying capacity, easier to find and at least $100 cheaper per tire . My coach has been gutted and interior replaced with not so heavy materials so I'm pretty sure I'm not any where near the weight of the original bus.
Thanks in advance, Nelson
Bottom line-weigh your bus front axle, rear axle. The weight will tell you if you can run 11R's. The carrying capacity in the front is typically the important one. 11R 14ply typically will carry 12,350lbs, 16ply will carry 13,200lbs.
12R is 485rpm, 11R is 500rpm. So at 60mph if you're turning 1800 now, you'd be turning 1855. Now much difference, and you'd have slightly better startability. 11R's are a good choice. Good Luck, TomC
I was thinking getting it weighed would be the fool proof way to go, Thanks, Tom
Any 4104 bus owners who have actually switched over to the 11R s ?
Yes, several have. The smaller tire has more than enough load capacity. They used the same size tire that your 4104 came with on the 40 foot 4905's.
The main thing you need to realize is you'll lose about 4 mph top speed. Not as much a problem if you have the 3:55 (3 5/9 ) rear.
My brother installed them on his 4104. He had the 3:55 rear and two valve head. Improved startabilty.
He jacked the gov to 2600 to keep top speed.
Nel -
Notwithstanding the weight issue already discussed, this point is also important for a 4104 owner:
GMC designed your powertrain (OEM) around tires that turned 495 revs per mile.
If you purchase tires that turn MORE than 495/mile, your top speed will suffer, your fuel mileage will go down slightly but your startability on slight grades will improve.
If you purchase tire that turn LESS than 495/mile, you will experience the opposite effect.
All commercial tire dealers will have the revs/mile info in their specifications book for the brands they carry. Use it to your advantage, based on your operating criteria, when you select new shoes for your ride.
FWIW & HTH. . .
;)
Had a 4106 for 31 yrs, replaced 1200 tires with 1100, lost 1mile per gal, with fuel at 2 bucks, dont hurt as much lol Just sayin
I have been running 11Rs for many years. 10-4 on the slight drop in top end but the assist to pull grades makes it a tradeoff. I've enjoyed them through to the third set now after over 30 years. I'd go for it!
Bus only weighs 22000 loaded. Replaced1200/20's with 11r24.5's..464-9 per mile. Rdw
You could go the other way and replace the 12R-22.5 with 11R-24.5. That's what I did-mainly because that's what I was running on my truck. You would go from 485rpm to 476rpm plus gain about an inch of clearance. Course, buying 6 rims would add to the cost. Both my bus and my truck have 11R-24.5's. Good Luck, TomC
Thank you for all the advice, I got a price of $265 a tire for the 11r22.5 s mounted and $360 for the 12r22.5, I will need all 6 plus maybe a used spare, they didn't mention balancing, do the have to be balanced?
We use centramatic balancers stays on the vehicle and adds mileage to the rubber.
What I have found out that works the best (after 1.3 million miles of driving) have ALL tires spun balanced. Then run Centramatics in the front, and optional in the rear. Then make sure you're running the correct tire pressure for your weight. Makes for a smooth ride.
For instance, my 11R-24.5 16 ply tires will take up to 120lbs pressure. But because I weight in at 10,500lb in front, and 20,500lbs in the rear, I run 90psi all around. Good Luck, TomC
Anyone have a photo of a 11r 24.5 setup?
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Quote from: Nel on March 15, 2016, 07:48:58 AM
I know it's been discussed many times and I have read previous posts on here but here goes.My 1960 4104 has 12r22.5 tires on it now that are 10 years old plus, threads are brand new but noticing sidewall cracking , My question is , can I go with the 11r22.5 as replacements with out any real major performance issues ,from my research they are 1" shorter and little less carrying capacity, easier to find and at least $100 cheaper per tire . My coach has been gutted and interior replaced with not so heavy materials so I'm pretty sure I'm not any where near the weight of the original bus.
Thanks in advance, Nelson
(Newb tire question)
I am in need of tall 22.5 tires and compatible rims in 22.5 that could be used on the 4103/4 Considering doing this on my 4103 to save a mint, well if I get new ones $180 a tire x6; confused about all these posts here as you cannot fit a 22.5 tire on a 20" rim so new rims would be needed as well.
Are 10 Lug rims mostly the same bolt pattern measurement? From what I see online it looks good for the front tires, how about the drive axle rims?
What are the tallest $ reasonable 22.5 rim tyres available?
EDIT: been looking around and all 10 lug wheels appear to be pretty much the same.
11x24.5 tires seems to be about the same ratio as 11.00/20 and every trucker is switching to 22.5 wheels it seems, so 24.5 appears to be the cheap way to go! Especially in the used market.
Thanks, George
Not all 10 lug wheels are the same,, look for HUB PILOTED or STUD PILOTED wheels to see the very important difference. There also made in different width's and weight ratings.>>>Dan
Watch the wheels they have a inset and outset dimension also,aluminum is the best way to go they are cast and uniform where steel wheels are a 2 piece welded together,I would stay away from the 24.5 the 22.5's are the standard wheel now
What is your rear axle ratio? 4:11 or 3:55? 69 or 79 top speed approx due to gov setting.
Hey Nel, I've got a MC-7 combo, 10 tires total, I'm in the same boat as you, 10 years + on the existing tires. I'm going with 12R in the front and 11R's for all the rears.
I'm still not buying yet, you will be ahead of me.
Bruce
I'm with Cliff on this. 24.5" rims are hard to come by. Took me three months to get my entire bus set up with a complete set of 24.5"s alcoas. Inner duals too. I love the larger look but I don't love how rare they seem to be. I'll be buying a couple more as spares and keeping them in my enclosed trailer at my in laws for future needs if I ever crack one.
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11R-24.5 is the tubless version of the tube type tire, 10.00-22. 11R-24.5 is mostly only used in North America. Practically all the rest of the world uses 22.5. Course, 22.5's are available from 8" wide to 14" wide, or 235 to 455 in metric. Big variance of tire sizes. Make sure you have the proper wheel rim for the tire size. Good Luck, TomC
Quote from: Utahclaimjumper on September 20, 2016, 02:48:35 PM
Not all 10 lug wheels are the same,, look for HUB PILOTED or STUD PILOTED wheels to see the very important difference. There also made in different width's and weight ratings.>>>Dan
Just a guess here, hub piloted would be the rears and stud piloted would be the front's? You know the stud pattern speak?
(https://busconversionmagazine.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1380.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fah196%2Fgeorgioj%2Fdb0b0862-9e67-4247-bea6-b7ed0700caf1_zpsvkt3sdxa.png&hash=2d33196e4f4f57c4d25c13a17003f609725eeb90)[/URL]
(https://busconversionmagazine.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1380.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fah196%2Fgeorgioj%2F93550c60-624c-479f-9248-186cf84e70b3_zpsmytuwox5.png&hash=147a544e5a42b00a60a0c16ee712117812f685ac)
Thanks, George
Deleted
Quote from: busfan on September 21, 2016, 07:44:16 AM
Just a guess here, hub piloted would be the rears and stud piloted would be the front's? You know the stud pattern speak?
(https://www.flickr.com/photos/143734613@N07/shares/jyV6Ub)
(https://www.flickr.com/photos/143734613@N07/shares/uKB1j8)
Thanks, George
Nope stud pilot front and rear axle on older buses
Thanks for the suggestions everyone, I do not know my rear ratio but would like to keep it near original; My 4103 has 11/20's and front measures 41.5" diameter and rear 40.75" Fronts are Generals rears are Michelin 11.00r20 x with tubes. Thinking tubeless is the way to go.
Now if I could only find a site that lists 22.5 tires by diameter.
EDIT: Anyone run a single tire in back like the Brigestone X one?
http://tiregroup.com/Catalogs/PDF%20Catalogs/Michelin.pdf (http://tiregroup.com/Catalogs/PDF%20Catalogs/Michelin.pdf)
or the Ecopia single?
https://commercial.bridgestone.com/content/dam/bcs-sites/bridgestone-ex/products/bridgestone/TBR/GreatecR135Ecopia/BS%20R135%20PRODUCT%20SHEET.pdf (https://commercial.bridgestone.com/content/dam/bcs-sites/bridgestone-ex/products/bridgestone/TBR/GreatecR135Ecopia/BS%20R135%20PRODUCT%20SHEET.pdf)
4 tires when you could have 2?! seems like less of a pain in the butt.
If you live in the upper right sweet deal on these Ecopias on Ebay..
http://www.ebay.com/itm/445-50R22-5-Bridgestone-Greatec-R135-Ecopia-Tire-/162129254180?hash=item25bfa81724:g:kGAAAOSw-KFXfm2c&vxp=mtr (http://www.ebay.com/itm/445-50R22-5-Bridgestone-Greatec-R135-Ecopia-Tire-/162129254180?hash=item25bfa81724:g:kGAAAOSw-KFXfm2c&vxp=mtr)
EDIT2: I guess the topic has been covered in the past..Links below:
http://www.busconversions.com/bbs/index.php?topic=969.20;wap2 (http://www.busconversions.com/bbs/index.php?topic=969.20;wap2)
http://www.busconversions.com/bbs/index.php?topic=19316.15 (http://www.busconversions.com/bbs/index.php?topic=19316.15)
http://www.busconversions.com/bbs/index.php?topic=23275.5;wap2 (http://www.busconversions.com/bbs/index.php?topic=23275.5;wap2)
http://www.busconversions.com/bbs/index.php?topic=11536.10;wap (http://www.busconversions.com/bbs/index.php?topic=11536.10;wap)
http://www.busconversions.com/bbs/index.php?action=printpage;topic=11536.0 (http://www.busconversions.com/bbs/index.php?action=printpage;topic=11536.0)
Looks like duals it is, thx TomC!
Quote from: Scott Bennett on March 17, 2016, 02:17:25 AM
Anyone have a photo of a 11r 24.5 setup?
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It's in the background of the picture I sent you a couple months ago of the steel 24.5" rim.
Quote from: DoubleEagle on September 21, 2016, 05:43:53 PM
It's in the background of the picture I sent you a couple months ago of the steel 24.5" rim.
11r/22.5 on 4104
(https://busconversionmagazine.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1380.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fah196%2Fgeorgioj%2Fgm4104_kenoyer01_zpsthfodeqm.jpg&hash=ed8dd193f699f316f9f17487211f336f68a122df)
11r/24.5 on 4106
(https://busconversionmagazine.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1380.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fah196%2Fgeorgioj%2Fgm4106_steve_blomquist_Left%2520Front_zpsaa80wg95.jpg&hash=42056b56610c70e4e686c84166578d3a235c27e5)
George -
The stock rear axle ratio on a 4103 GMC is the same as the stock ratio on a 4104, in other words, 4.125:1.
Thus the following is important for you to consider when purchasing new socks and shoes for your coach:
GMC designed your powertrain (OEM) around tires that turned 495 revs per mile.
If you purchase tires that turn MORE than 495/mile, your top speed will suffer, your fuel mileage will go down slightly but your startability on slight grades will improve.
If you purchase tire that turn LESS than 495/mile, you will experience the opposite effect.
All commercial tire dealers will have the revs/mile info in their specifications book for the brands they carry. Use it to your advantage, based on your operating criteria, when you select new shoes for your ride.
By paying attention to the above information, you'll give your coach an OEM ride and performance.
FWIW & HTH. . .
;)
Bottom line to change tire size, read TheMightyQuinn post Boom.
Quote from: Scott Bennett on September 20, 2016, 07:38:46 PM
I'm with Cliff on this. 24.5" rims are hard to come by. Took me three months to get my entire bus set up with a complete set of 24.5"s alcoas. Inner duals too. I love the larger look but I don't love how rare they seem to be. I'll be buying a couple more as spares and keeping them in my enclosed trailer at my in laws for future needs if I ever crack one.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
The 24.5 rims that are stud centered are the hardest to find, there are more of the hub centered available. A lot of the stud centered ones were scrapped because they are apparently more prone to cracking. Switching to hub centered would mean changing the axle style, so that is not practical. Part of the cracking problem is the over-torquing of the wheel nuts, they should not be set as hard as on steel wheels. Alcoa has good details on their website.