Ok, so I need some advice.
My slobber valves were leaking pretty bad, so I bought a kit that collects the oil from the slobber valves, seems to work really well. But here is the concern. I noticed a clear liquid dripping from the collection box. After further investigation I believe it is coolant. At first I thought it was diesel. Either way, I don't think it is normal. So it leads me to the conclusion that there is coolant coming from one or both slobber valves. There is no sign of coolant on the oil dipstick. We have a 250 mile journey home tomorrow. Engine seems to run normal and normal temps. The bus is a 89 MCI 102C3 with a 8V92 Detroit.
Any ideas?
viking1,
I suspect it may just be harmless condensation, but watch for other replies as I am not that familiar with Diesel Engines. Because you live in Palmdale, CA, where it is pretty dry, it may or may not be condensation. Coolant should be colored and smells as does diesel fuel. Can you smell either in the liquid? Also, I believe both will float on the top of oil. If you can separate it out and look at in a beaker or something clear, it may tell you more.
The other question is how often do you run this engine and has it been wet out there and is this happening when it is wet out there?
This may make it easier for other "real mechanics" to help determine your problem.
Gary
If you think your slobber tubes are draining something other than fuel/oil, collect some in a clear jar, enough to maybe fill the jar half way full, then let it sit overnight. That will tell you a story
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That's not normal the air box drain drip very little oil on a healthy engine,crack heads, leaking head seals, bad cylinder liner o-rings,injector tubes or a leaking after cooler are the only places coolant can leak into air box.
I would rule out the head gasket seal,injector tubes or cracked head since it doesn't lock up trying to start and no coolant in the oil.
It's probably from someone using soap on the liner seals or good old Walmart antifreeze and they have turned to mush.The excess oil dripping is caused by broken , bad oil rings or the wrist pin seals are not sealing that is my take on it.
FWIW the 8v92 is a good engine if done right the first time and it sound like you have work to do LOL those are air box drains guys not friggin "slobber valves or tubes" I sound like Geoff Smith huh ;D
Thank you, Cliff. I'll sit this one out!
--Geoff
Sorry, air box drains. Do you guys think it will be safe to drive it home. Approx 250 milestone?
That one is on you,92 series don't like antifreeze in oil are you sure there is no coolant in the oil when they set the oil goes to the top, remove the pan plug and drain about a gal if no coolant is found in the oil I would probably drive home watching the oil if it turns milky I would have it towed
Old habits die hard. I've always called them slobber tubes and I know it makes Geoff turn different shades :) lol.
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Everything that could come out of the air box from the engine has a distinct color or smell, if it is condensation moisture it should disappear after running it. Just keep an eye on coolant and oil levels and go. Twenty years ago I had a 55 Gal. barrel of 40 weight oil that became contaminated with water because of a loose plug that allowed snow to melt in. When I pumped it in for an oil change I unknowingly added about a gallon of water. When I checked the oil it looked milky and I knew that was not right. I let it set for a few days, and then loosened the drain plug to let out several quarts of water. I waited a few more days and managed to get a little more out. I had to get going, so I decided to run it. After 500 miles the oil looked fine. I did not have a slobber collection can then, but I assume the vapors were either consumed or slobbered out. In your case, if there is any possibility that a larger quantity of water got in the oil, I would try loosening the oil drain plug to see what comes out, but keep a good grip on it.
Quote from: DoubleEagle on March 14, 2016, 07:54:04 PM
Everything that could come out of the air box from the engine has a distinct color or smell, if it is condensation moisture it should disappear after running it. Just keep an eye on coolant and oil levels and go. Twenty years ago I had a 55 Gal. barrel of 40 weight oil that became contaminated with water because of a loose plug that allowed snow to melt in. When I pumped it in for an oil change I unknowingly added about a gallon of water. When I checked the oil it looked milky and I knew that was not right. I let it set for a few days, and then loosened the drain plug to let out several quarts of water. I waited a few more days and managed to get a little more out. I had to get going, so I decided to run it. After 500 miles the oil looked fine. I did not have a slobber collection can then, but I assume the vapors were either consumed or slobbered out. In your case, if there is any possibility that a larger quantity of water got in the oil, I would try loosening the oil drain plug to see what comes out, but keep a good grip on it.
His is not going to disappear if it's overflowing from the Walker catch can he has problems IMO
I don't tHink the camp ground would favor me draining a gallon of oil here. Not to mention I don't have a pan or tools with me.
Quote from: viking1 on March 14, 2016, 09:12:37 PM
I don't tHink the camp ground would favor me draining a gallon of oil here. Not to mention I don't have a pan or tools with me.
You can probably get away with it if you're discrete. They may not like it, but they'll probably dislike dragging your rig out of there by a tow truck equally :)
You can pickup an oil catch pan from Wally World or similar. You'll need an empty gallon or two container (old milk or water jugs would work). You really don't need any tools, except for maybe an adjustable wrench. Most/many oil pans have a quick drain plug on the bottom.
You're not trying to empty a gallon of oil, you're trying to check and see if there's water in the oil and if so, how much. Could be a gallon, could be a cup, could be a teaspoon. The amount will decide just how bad your water/coolant/oil situation is and help you make decision on whether to drive it or tow it.
Quote from: luvrbus on March 14, 2016, 02:36:09 PM
... or good old Walmart antifreeze and they have turned to mush.
Clifford,
What is it about Walmart antifreeze that'd cause this?
I've been trying to figure out what kind of antifreeze works best in these things and seem to get a variety of different answers.
Isn't Wally World antifreeze just ethylene glycol or is there more to it?
What do you recommend?
Do not keep oil drums out in weather where rain can get at them. The warming air temps expands the drum causing pressure to build inside, which exits around plugs that aren't sealing 100%. When the drum cools, it draws air,moisture or water into drum; whatever is around the bungs. Over time, it can be significant. On an open drum, as water contacts the oil, it sinks to the bottom and will start pushing the oil out the top if it is pretty full over time.
Have the air box drain liquid analyzed. That will tell you quickly what is in it.
Pan is less than $10
A ratchet and socket $10
Moving the bus out of the campground to the Walmart nearby that you are buying the tools at and letting coach sit overnight and then draining a cup of oil in the morning to make sure you don't toast a $20,000 engine?....priceless
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Well.
I started the bus and in doing so approx 1/2 a cup of antifreeze dumped out of my collection box. I called a Detroit engine mechanic and determined that spinning a bearing or toasting the engine would make it no good as a core. Core value approx 2500 bucks. Tow from Bishop CA to my house approx 2500 bucks. Hmmm, it seemed to me, the closer I got it to home the more money I save on the tow.
Well I fired her up, slammed my finger in the door twice and drove it home like I stole it. And I just don't get it other then we were extremely lucky. The bus did the 197 mile trip non-stop with out missing a beat. 60-70 MPH and approx 40-45 up the inclines, temp steady at 180-185 and oil psi steady at 45-50 psi, no smoke, no hesitation just purred like a Detroit kitty cat all the way home.
Now what, I got it home. Still coolant coming out of one or both air box drains. Do I pull the motor and do a fresh rebuild? Or do I open her up and try to repair what I have.
Any advice would be appreciated.
Definitely gotta love the Detroit, even sick she got us home.
I was talking to a guy at a rally who had the same issue like ten years ago. He just added a bottle of stop leak and it's never come back. Not saying that's your best solution but he continually monitors it and has never seen any coolant again and saved him a bunch of money. I was stunned by the story but he said he puts lots of miles on it. I don't remember his name though. I wouldn't do it as a long term solution but if it cleared it up and got me home or to an off season when it was better to tear into it, I probably would at least consider it.
Roll the sucker out and see what you have to work with,the heads need to come off,you have 2 problems excessive oil and water.
Head gaskets are 40 bucks ea,the liner seals are 8 bucks a set you may or may not need new liners or pistons but they need to be checked and the oil rings or the wrist pin seals cannot be checked inside the liners so that will cost you a set of rings @ 40 bucks a set and new bearings @ $150.00. I would rebuild the blower or exchange it the rebuild kits are 80 bucks fwiw
I am guessing that engine has been rebuilt and someone screwed it up 92 series are a different animal than the old 71 series they need to be done right and they will last.If you need liners and pistons I have a couple of sets of low hr Detroit liners and pistons I'll make you a super deal on.You are going to need a set of manuals
good luck
Difference between overhaul and rebuild-Overhaul you only replace what is worn or broken. Rebuild you blindly replace everything with new. Guess which one the Detroit dealer will only do? Good Luck, TomC
Scott Crosby can attest to how long these motors will run while dying....but eventually they will die somewhere....and most likely not anywhere close to home. But they will bang bang quite a while before finally vomiting metal bits.
Determining whether there is any antifreeze in the oil or not might help zero in on where the antifreeze leak is. The danger to the bearings is when enough antifreeze gets fed to them instead of oil. Let it sit and see what comes out that drain plug, and consider an oil analysis. Glad you made it back, you drove it properly.
This is another instance where a Fumoto oil drain valve is useful - you can easily drain out small quantities of oil for analysis, or whatever else ails you, without risk of making a mess or stripping the plug's thread. I used the Fumoto T-202 valve in my engine, and it can't get caught on anything because the transmission's pan is much lower than the engine's. Well worth it.
John
if you read the instructions...every sample should be drawn thru a tube with the appropriate tool....
while i am not in favor of scheduled sampling, in this instance i would recommend one.
ps. I worked for a Chevron jobber that sold 1000's of sample kits... the suction supplies were free if you bought enough :)
I use the Cat sampling kits and pull the sample through the dip stick tube about the mid way on the dip stick.I never pull 1 from the plug unless I looking for metal
i also look for metal...at every oil change... then i drop the pan :) i just know you never get a "good' sample from a fugimoto valve or drain fitting... i'd be more confident dipping the bottle in a 7 gallon pan :)
If it is coolant, it would feel like coolant on your fingers. Probably just condensation. even a small amount of coolant is coolant colored. coolant that has been exposed to exhaust gets a particularly odd smell i.e. Blown gasket or crack in the combustion surfaces. Pull the drain plug when it's cold and see if water comes out. But don't drain the oil. Water and Coolant always go to the bottom.
Both the tech at ABC Bus who changed my oil the first time (when he installed the Fumoto) and the counterdude at Southern Counties Lubricants (where I buy my Chevron sample kits) told me to drain a sample immediately after shutting down from a one hour run, in other words when the oil is still at full temperature and before anything has had a chance to settle out. That made sense to me, so that's why I was doing it that way. However, if you say to draw a sample up the dipstick tube, I'll do so - I'm more inclined to believe the collective wisdom here than some dudes who may not know or care much about 2-strokes! Should samples be taken hot or cold?
John
John, for an oil sample analysis you'd want warm oil so they can get a homogenized sample. But if you're just at the moment trying to figure out if you have coolant in your oil, you can drain a hot sample into a clear jar and let it sit for a day and watch the coolant separate from the oil, or you could just let the bus sit for a day and then drain a sample and if there's a serious amount of coolant contamination in your oil you'll be draining out coolant. I've done it both ways on friends trucks that had coolant/water contam in their oil. It's not scientific though so if you want an oil analysis then do obtain a warm oil sample.
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John,go to the Cat site they have good info on how to take a good sample since they are the ones that pioneered the tests
sample hot.
I remember buying an expensive oil sampling kit from Caterpillar in the 1980's with the plastic sampling tubes when I had a trucking company. I was always concerned about the dipstick tube crud that the plastic tube would scrape past that might contaminate the sample, but the cost and added steps swung me to taking samples while the oil was draining hot into a sample bottle (I held it with the tool that takes off wheel nut covers). The main proviso is to let the oil run for a while to flush the bottom sediment out to get a fair reading of the oil that is actually circulating in the engine. Dipping a sample bottle in the catch pan can include the residue of previous oil changes (we tend to not clean the oil pan out to pristine condition), and the bottom layer of the engine oil pan. I think the necessity to do oil analysis in private coaches is less likely to be worthwhile than in heavy trucks that are double or more in weight. Spotting water and antifreeze can be done visually. Fuel contamination can be spotted by dripped a few drops on a paper towel - if a clearer ring appears around the dark oil spot, it is usually diesel fuel.
Cat has oil sampling ports now for the last 15 or so years I installed a sampling port on my series 60 but I have so many Cat kits I still use the bottles,labels and tubes
Quote from: jackhanow on March 17, 2016, 08:42:21 PM.. coolant that has been exposed to exhaust gets a particularly odd smell i.e. Blown gasket or crack in the combustion surfaces. ...
First time we were chasing down a coolant problem, my boss in England described the smell "like chicken curry that's been dropped on a stove* burner". I immediately caught on the first time I smelled it and I've never forgotten the smell.
(In England, they call it the "cooker burner ring" but I translated for you.)
I hate it when I smell that smell. Over the years head gaskets have become one of my least favorite jobs. Oil gets an odd smell as well. it's different between diesel and gas.