How often do you guys replace your bus tires due to age? Iam sure my rear tires are close to ten years old and still have 90% tread left on them, I replaced the steering tires 4yrs ago they are still like brand new, my bus is kept inside out of the sun so there is no sun rot or weather checking, I use the bus only in the camping season and usually travel less than 5000 miles a year.>>> John.
Hi;
Usual rule of thumb is 8 yrs. Different manufacturers vary a year or so
one way or the other.
I assume you know how to read the date code on your tires. I would
think you are at the end of life for those tires.
I use used tires for the drive axel. While on your travels, you can check
different tire shops to see what they have. Last ones I found are less
than two years old.
Good luck, Merle
Just took tires off my Prevost .Steer tires ten years old ,Rest sixteen years old .Michelin XL'S .Steer tire were Firestone RV Tires.And these tires had a least 60 to 70 percent of their tread left and no cracks or nicks!!
It makes you wonder how much money and engineering the Tire co's spent into developing a certain number of years for the life of a tire it wasn't always the case 30 years ago.A old bias tire would last sometimes 20 years without a problem.
You can install new Michelin's and stand back and watch those crack, Michelin told me those were UV cracks don't worry it was BS my UV cracks got bigger and bigger after 2 years so I changed them last week but not to Michelin this time
I bought a 4905 about 20 years ago for parts now. It has Firestone lease tires on the front.The tire sitting in the sun did not show any cracks until 2 years ago, and they are small.None on the shaded side. They put better rubber in the tires when they lease them.
I was Camp Pendelton last week and was amazed how much military equipment uses the 12R x 22.5 some of those tires were 20+ years old and with no sign of aging
This needs to be asked. Is it something physically in the tire makeup or manufacturing process or is just a situation of aggressive marketing? Planned obsolescence through aggressive marketing or engineering? Or neither?
I always carry a good spare and replace them as they each blow out. I found this to be the most cost effective solution. ;D
Just kidding. It depends on several factors of course, such as if you keep your bus in a garage, and/or you cover your tires when the bus is off the road as well as the weight of your bus and the climate you live and travel in and most importantly if you carry family members on board.
As long as you have good tread on your sneakers and there are no stress cracks, and your hub seals don't leak oil on your tires, you should be fine, but I agree with Merle, about 8 years is the maximum under normal driving/parked conditions, less if you are traveling with family or friends on board just to be on the safe side. Unlike bus drivers who always wear their seat belts, your passengers may not be wearing theirs at all times which can be deadly if they get thrown around if you have to suddenly over compensate for a tire blowout even if you don't go off the road.
To be even safer, you may want to consider changing your steer tires at about half of that interval. This will also allow you to stretch out your tire expenses, now that it costs about as much to replace a full set of sneakers as it does to buy a new bus, you may want to purchase two at a time every couple of years and put the two new ones on the steer wheels and rotate out the old steer tires to the back of the coach to replace the ones that are the most worn out. The steer tires are the ones most likely to kill you if they blow out while traveling over 50 MPH because one flat tire can make it very difficult to maintain control of your bus, or even at a slower speed if you are driving down a steep grade with a big drop-off on one or both sides. Or worse than that if you don't have power steering in your bus.
Another very helpful lifesaver is to purchase a TireTraker Pressure Monitoring System, the only system with a lifetime guarantee which will give you an audible and visual warning if your tire pressure is low or a tire is running hot, which can happen as they lose air pressure as it may save your life and the life of your loved ones as well. Underinflation of tires is your worst enemy and is one thing that can easily be prevented. Check them out at http://tiretraker.com (http://tiretraker.com).
I run this system on my bus and have never experienced a low air pressure situation that got out of control since installing this system. Sometimes with duals, it is difficult to see if your inside tire may be low unless you do a walk-around inspection of your bus at all stops like you are supposed to and beat on every tire with a baseball bat or something to ensure the tires are hard i.e. fully inflated such that the bat bounces back and hits your wheel well. This is a pain to do at every stop especially in the rain or a snowstorm. Worst case scenario if you blow out a tire is of course death of you and your loved ones, but even if you blow out a rear tire it can tear up your wheel wells and braking systems which can run into thousands of dollars in repairs or could even distract you and cause you to cross lanes of traffic or run off the road and flip onto your side. Both very embarrassing situations.
The TireTraker is good insurance which will not only save you money in the long run but may avoid a catastrophe while away from home. It can also save you on tire costs because overinflated or underinflated tires wear sooner than properly inflated tires. Also many blowouts start with a small leak which goes unnoticed until it is too late. The TireTraker will let you know as soon as your tire temperature or pressure reaches a pre-set threshold, set by you to let you know before there is a major failure. The other advantage is that you no longer have to leave the safety of your bus on the side of the road or in a dark parking lot where you can get attacked. Now-a-days, this is becoming more of a concern since the 2008 depression and less people have jobs and are desperate to feed their families any way that they can.
BTW, if you decide to not replace your tires on a regular basis or purchase a TireTraker system, remember this. If you have a front tire blow out, NEVER hit the brakes. Stomp on the throttle fast and hard to apply more rotational torque around your rear tires to help to reduce the weight on your steer tires and then after you get the beast under control and off the side of the road, gradually apply the brakes. Another option is to use your E-Brakes, but only after you get it off to the side of the road as this will apply only the rear brakes so you will be able to steer with the one remaining front tire without it pulling to the side of the road. However at less than about 40 MPH once it is under control, you should be able to stop safely with regular brakes or better yet, just come to a rolling stop immediately after you get it under control if you have the space because a blown out tire creates about as much friction than a single tire brake do and will be easier to handle.
Everyone should watch this very interesting video that may one day save your life or the lives of your loved ones on what to do when your front tires blow out: http://www.michelinrvtires.com/tires/tires-101/tire-maintenance-and-safety/how-to-handle-a-blowout/. (http://www.michelinrvtires.com/tires/tires-101/tire-maintenance-and-safety/how-to-handle-a-blowout/.)
Even though we all know that a bus conversion is the safest way to travel, one must also take every possible precaution to protect ourselves and our loved ones. There is no need to take chances when there are measures you can take to make your bus safer.
my tire guy ( 30 years in the tire business ) told me I am NUTS for changing my 10 year old tires as they are almost alway inside ( out of the sun , weather ) other then a few weeks a year when we use the coach . if they have zero cracks in the side wall there is no reason to change them . if it was stored out side in the sun then it would be different . his words ! and there are no cracks at all on them now . my steers are only 2 years old , inside drives are 4 years old but the drive out side tires and the tag tires will be 10 years old this summer . so against his advice I will be changing at least the 2 outside drives this year but I think I will leave the 10 year old tag tires on ?
so am I nuts by only changing 2 or is he right and not change any of them ?
thanks dave
Depends if you like playing Russian Roulette. ;D
Just think if I was killed by a blowout in my bus, there would be no more BCM Magazine or Forum for you guys to read.
I don't think my life is any more valuable than anyone else out there (well it is to me), but if you decide not to change your tires on the recommended intervals that are published by several (no-biased ;)) tire companies, you have to be cognizant of the consequences.
Or if you always keep your bus under 30 MPH, you should be fine, but you may want to shore up your rear bumper and get some rugged seat headrests first. ;D
Wonder if the Tiretracker system will work with the SilverLeaf I need some new sensors @50 bucks ea,the replaceable batteries in the Tiretracker sounds good to me
No more forum??? You better change out your tires every year.
I'm pretty sure that the cost to replace tires as preventive action is less than the repair bill after one unfortunate turn of events - - -
http://www.livetrucking.com/motor-home-blows-a-tire-flies-over-median-on-i-10/ (http://www.livetrucking.com/motor-home-blows-a-tire-flies-over-median-on-i-10/)
I have had the misfortune of having a front tire blow out more than once (Both times, the tires were old, but looked perfect! ). Just after it happened, I would have gladly paid for 2 new tires to avoid the hassle of dealing with that aftermath, not to mention repairing the collateral damage.
Rubber will allow moisture to pass thru to the steel cords- it takes a while, but eventually, rust will develop.
Also, as rubber ages, the plasticisers leach out - regular usage works the rubber to keep the plasticisers evenly distributed which keeps the rubber flexible.
Lets not under estimate the negative impact of road hazards.
It is hard to predict how all these things add up to influence the life of the tire.
I am planning on replacing the steers at or before 5 years, The drives at 8, sooner if they show any signs that cause concern.
When I bought new tires about nine years ago, I thought 8 years was a reasonable change interval. Now, with these tires still looking perfect, I tend to think I will make a decision one trip at a time. My bus is kept outside, but I do have tire covers. I also bought this 303 tire treatment, which is supposed to be pretty good, although I really have only used it a couple of times and then only on the outer tire wall.
On my way to Arcadia last December, my only 14 year old tire blew out on my inside dual. I didn't realize that I had a tire that old. I did have a spare and Coachnet so everything worked out OK. When I returned home I purchased two new tires which I put on the fronts and moved the fronts to where I had old tires. I now have two new tires and 6 tires that are four years old and two good spares. My plan is to trade in tires as they approach 8 years old and let the tire dealer sell them to log truck trailers. One blowout is enough to make me a believer. I just don't want to test the age thing!
Art
The US government doesn't seem to go by the tire rules,I have a 1991 model Humvee 3/91 production date the 37x1250Rx16.5 Goodyear Wrangler load range D 8 ply are dated 1/91 no cracks or separation anyplace.LOL it must be cheaper to sell off the Humvee than buy new tires
Quote from: kyle4501 on March 08, 2016, 05:46:36 PM
I'm pretty sure that the cost to replace tires as preventive action is less than the repair bill after one unfortunate turn of events - - -
http://www.livetrucking.com/motor-home-blows-a-tire-flies-over-median-on-i-10/ (http://www.livetrucking.com/motor-home-blows-a-tire-flies-over-median-on-i-10/)
I have had the misfortune of having a front tire blow out more than once (Both times, the tires were old, but looked perfect! ). Just after it happened, I would have gladly paid for 2 new tires to avoid the hassle of dealing with that aftermath, not to mention repairing the collateral damage.
Rubber will allow moisture to pass thru to the steel cords- it takes a while, but eventually, rust will develop.
Also, as rubber ages, the plasticisers leach out - regular usage works the rubber to keep the plasticisers evenly distributed which keeps the rubber flexible.
Lets not under estimate the negative impact of road hazards.
It is hard to predict how all these things add up to influence the life of the tire.
I am planning on replacing the steers at or before 5 years, The drives at 8, sooner if they show any signs that cause concern.
+1. I'm with Kyle on tire age.
Not all commercial truck tire suppliers agree with the 6 or 8 year rule, just went through it and two big outfits in Sacramento said they don't go on dates as much as inspection, dk, just my experience recently.
Lee, the DOT doesn't go by age either just tread and visual inspection only
Gary,
Thanks for the video link. That was extremely valuable to watch!
I'm embarrassed to say that, prior to watching that video, my inclination would've been to hit the brakes; which apparently is the worst thing you can do :o
To add to the conversation on tire age, I've been told by multiple sources (including tire dealers) that driving on tires (even ones that look perfect) that are nearing 10 years old is a pretty large risk. One of the first things I had done, before we set out on our trip home, after purchasing our bus, was installing new tread on it. While the tires (and tread'wear) looked fine, it was not a risk I was willing to take.
I also second the guidance on a TPMS. It has been incredibly valuable in keeping an eye on tire pressure. We installed a product called Eezrv (www.eezrvproduct.com (http://www.eezrvproduct.com)). My system came with 6 sensors for the bus, plus 4 for the toad, and the console for about $429. The batteries are user replaceable (been in use almost 2 years now and still going strong) and the console plugs in (and charges) either hard wired or cigarette lighter (both included). It does a great job monitoring the tires and reports (and alarms) on slow or rapid loss (or change) in pressure along with temp. It's pretty accurate (compared against a gauge) and the bus sensors are fill-through sensors (meaning they don't need to be removed to top off the air).
My Brother does/did have a cherry civilian Type 1 Hummer and he told me buying new special expensive Hummer tires WAS almost as expensive ... as the Hummer!
Years ago we did take it from Bakersfield CA to Las Vegas NV and back. Ran at about 62 mph. I think we got about a whopping 7 mpg or so. Not too bad. Cold A/C. Fun trip.
Tires have changed you are paying big bucks for junk that don't last,how many here remember when you bought new tires they were wrapped in paper ?
I'm a believer in making sure your steers are in good order. Just makes sense when you're driving a 34,000 lb brick. I think it's prudent to keep in mind that other lives are in our responsibility in terms of the cars and trucks driving around us on the hwy. so keeping our coaches as safe as we practically are able is something we should make a priority. We can gamble with our coaches and our lives if we so desire but when driving on public roads, we cannot in good conscience gamble with the lives of innocent drivers around us. So I try to keep my steers new (mine are) and if the old tires are decent I'll push them to the drive axle or tags. I can't imagine losing control of my coach because of a maintenance neglect and hurting or killing someone in another vehicle around me.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
The problem with todays tire are they are mostly synthetic rubber,most tire made today have only about 25% natural rubber the cheaper tires are even less FWIW tires are sold by the pound
I think the whole thing is about ride .Folks tend to want a 40 thousand pound bus/rv to ride like a Cadillac there fore the tire manufacturers keep making these tires with softer compounds .I put commercial tires back on mine and I really can't tell that much difference in the ride.I really wouldn't want to set out on a long trip with tires over ten years old .An interesting thing about my Prevost was that when they delivered the bus to Country Coach ,it had 12R/22.5 on it then country coach changed the tires to another size which were the same diameter (I'm not at the bus so don't remember the exact size) but they were a bit narrower These were about 40 bucks more than the 12r's were per tire.
Bigred, they changed from 12R to 315R/80/22.5 with a 9in wide wheel to carry more weight on the front axle the Prevost is a heavy sucker on the front axle
Not many military Humvee's ever see warp speed either .... so a tire failure would not be the same panic as civilian driving a bus on the interstate >:(
Quote from: eagle19952 on March 09, 2016, 09:00:45 AM
Not many military Humvee's ever see warp speed either .... so a tire failure would not be the same panic as civilian driving a bus on the interstate >:(
They cruise along at 55 mpg that is about the same speed you see the old buses cruising at, with the trailer I am about 11,000 lbs fwiw my trailer is a 1999 model it has the original tires same size as the Humvee uses showing no signs of cracks or age
Thanks for all the posts guys! a lot of good info, I think I will try to get 10yrs out of my drivers, and change out the steering tires every five years, I am still running 12R 22.5s and have been happy with bridgestones, I do have a tire monitoring system which is very helpful keeping an eye on tire temp and pressure, and also saved me a tire on the toad last year. Thanks>>> John.
Tires are not cheap so I understand the reluctance to swap out tires that have a lot of tread left, no apparent sidewall cracks, but a lot of years on them.
But everytime I start thinking about tires I start with trying to figure the economics of the decision. If they cost $6000 for a set and I change them every six years my cost for tires is $1000 per year. If I stretch the change interval to 7 years my cost is $857 per year or a savings of $143. If I go to 10 years I have saved more money because the cost is $600 per year.
Then I start to think about the risk. I know as tires age the rubber loses its flexibility. That is why new tires make the ride seem so much better. Old tires are like riding on hard rubber. So the hardness of the tires and sidewalls affects the tire performance, and I am certain blowouts happen more frequently as tires age, especially of the tires are being driven on lousy roads with potholes. If I ignore the risk a blowout creates, just the fact I have a blowout wipes out all the savings. Tires purchased on the side of the road are not cheap, nor is the service call, nor is the inconvenience.
Then there is the issue of what other damage occurs when a tire fails. The answer is none, or a lot. I know first hand a failed tire can take out an air bag or brake chamber. Some coaches have had body damage due to a tire failure.
Then there is the real risk to me or my family. A sudden tire failure creates a serious control issue and the risk there gets into the human cost. Near where I live a church bus driven by a professional driver had a blowout on I-40, crossed the median, struck a Tahoe in the rear, killing its passenger, struck a semi head on killing its driver, rolled over and killed 6 more people in the bus, including its driver and his wife.
I'm risk averse and 6 years are the limit for my tires. For the brave among you my old tires are available when I change. Come and get them. Free. Along with all the risk that goes with them.
New tires can go in hurry too, there is a H-45 sitting over in Needles at a storage yard story goes he blew a tire 20 miles east of Kingman and replaced both front tires with new Chinese made Double Coin tires one let loose on the front 6 miles east of Needle and he smack the guard for about 200 yards,It's going to take some big bucks to repair that H-45
Tires are not like wine, they do not get better with age. For those of you who want to know more about tire aging, here is an interesting 30 page slide presentation about aging tires. Here are some of the highlights for those of you who replace your tires on a regular basis rather than playing Russian Roulette with your tires. This presentation is about automobile tires, but the same concept is true for bus tires.
Aged tire failures will continue to be part of the tire-related crash landscape...
27% policyholders from five warm weather states (TX, CA, LA, FL, AZ) accounted for 77% of all claims nationwide and 84% of those claims involved tires older than 6 years.
Dramatic increase in failures after 6 years
Concludes: remove tires older than 6 years regardless of tread depth
Check out the entire story here...
http://www.ntsb.gov/news/events/Documents/2014_Tire_Safety_SYM_Panel_4b_Kane.pdf (http://www.ntsb.gov/news/events/Documents/2014_Tire_Safety_SYM_Panel_4b_Kane.pdf)
Did you guys read where Michelin and other tire manufactures spent 85 grand fighting legislation in 13 states that would require you to replace your tires at a certain age I think it was 8 years of age.That's funny I don't care you are.Then you have tire manufactures some say 6 some 8 and Michelin saying 10 years no way will I run a 10 year old Michelin tire lol about 3 years for me and the Michelin if I am lucky
At a certain age? Then in your case you would not have to replace your tires for another 80 years. That just does not make sense Cliff!!! ;D
Yep 13 states were trying to pass laws requiring you to replace the tires after 6 or 8 years of use and tire manufactures fought it and won.Then they turn around and tell you to replace your tires in 4,5,6,7,8 or 10 years it's all BS I buy good tires when I see cracks caused by UV or whatever I replace the tires and don't care about the age I just replaced 2 -3 year old Michelin's on the Trek because of cracks
Quote from: luvrbus on March 09, 2016, 09:33:27 AM
They cruise along at 55 mpg that is about the same speed you see the old buses cruising at, with the trailer I am about 11,000 lbs fwiw my trailer is a 1999 model it has the original tires same size as the Humvee uses showing no signs of cracks or age
i was thinking in military service.... :)
As we all can surmise, many different factors come into play when attempting to answer the question of "At what age do I replace the tires on my bus?" It all comes down to a matter of what we each are individually comfortable with. Myself, I tend to be a middle of the road person in that I look at the industry recommendations and temper those with what I know from years of personal observations and experience having worked with heavy on road vehicles for 35+ years. The failsafe rule of the heavy truck / bus industry has become 10 years and junk the tire. However I temper that with what I see and know about the each tire. Factors such as brand / quality, number of plys, tread pattern, proper tire inflation, road / operating damage, being run underinflated are just a few pieces of the puzzle. I am like Cliff in that I will run a tire longer than ten years if I feel relatively certain it hasn't been abused, was a quality casing to start with, and is not giving any signs of old age ie general evenly distributed age cracking, cracking around the bead line, bulges / evidence of separations to name a few.
Michelins in my book aren't known for having the greatest sidewalls in the sizes we would use. They would not be a tire that I would choose and certainly would not expect to keep around for 10 years. Bridgestone, Firestone, Goodyear, Dunlop, Toyo are all brands I have had good service with. Dunlop is owned by Goodyear and the Dunlop offerings are the previous generation / tread pattern Goodyear offerings renamed and offered at lower price thus generally a cost effective buy.
Some tires are offered in 16ply in addition to the normal 14 ply. If you run high tire loading weights consider a 16ply. They usually aren't that much more money and if you do wear them out before ten years they have premium casing value.
Under inflation kills a tire fast. If you know or suspect that you ran a tire loaded for any significant distance at 20 psi + under inflated, consider replacing it. Tires run in this condition can experience a zipper failure. It is thus called as the sidewall initially fails at one point followed explosively in zipper fashion around the entire sidewall.
Daily tire pressure checks are a must for RV folks. Tire pressure monitors are better yet.
Heavy truck / bus tires are "generally" constructed with the expectation of a much longer service life than passenger car tires. Granted, age degeneration does occur. If you are not versed in being a good doctor when looking for signs and symptoms of tire problems than have your tires inspected on at least an annual basis by a reputable fleet truck tire service center. ;)
Thanks for the info Easystreet. I like your perspective. I also agree with Scott and the others, new tires on the steer axle is always a good thing.