After more than 3 years in storage (inside, Western AZ) I put two new 8D batteries in and hit the starter in my 1966 GM 4107 with a Detroit 6V92 TA motor. To my amazement it started on the first turn and aired up, only to die after idling about five minutes. Although there's plenty of fuel in the tank, it's acting like it ran out of fuel. It has two fuel filters mounted high in the passenger side of the engine compartment, and I only got maybe an ounce of fuel out of both of them when I opened their drains. Any suggestions on what to do at this point?
John Johnc.churchill@gmail.com
Sounds like you lost prime. Try filling the filters up with diesel and prime the system then try starting it. Also change both your filters they are probably plugged up.
Dave5
This new diesel and Ethanol gas are the worst things in the world to plug every thing up after sitting for a few months.I would also throw a good treatment of Lucas diesel treatment in to that fuel tank!
Quote from: lawful on February 19, 2016, 05:41:24 PM
After more than 3 years in storage (inside, Western AZ) I put two new 8D batteries in and hit the starter in my 1966 GM 4107 with a Detroit 6V92 TA motor. To my amazement it started on the first turn and aired up, only to die after idling about five minutes. Although there's plenty of fuel in the tank, it's acting like it ran out of fuel. It has two fuel filters mounted high in the passenger side of the engine compartment, and I only got maybe an ounce of fuel out of both of them when I opened their drains. Any suggestions on what to do at this point?
John Johnc.churchill@gmail.com
Replace both fuel filters and reprime. See if that doesn't get it started. Repriming can be a pain. Get a gallon sized garden sprayer and connect it to your secondary and pump away.
Let us know how it turns out...
-Sean
Quote from: bigred on February 20, 2016, 02:07:04 AM
This new diesel and Ethanol gas are the worst things in the world to plug every thing up after sitting for a few months.I would also throw a good treatment of Lucas diesel treatment in to that fuel tank!
Quote from: Seangie on February 20, 2016, 02:28:37 AM
Replace both fuel filters and reprime. See if that doesn't get it started. Repriming can be a pain. Get a gallon sized garden sprayer and connect it to your secondary and pump away.
Let us know how it turns out...
-Sean
Yeah, and when I had the filters out, I'd check them carefully for any signs of gooey black powder in the filter material -- it you have that, it's mold and that's a sign of water in the fuel. The Lucas treatment is good for this and there are other treatments that are specifically formulated to kill mold in fuel -- "Bio-cide" is one. http://powerservice.com/psp_product/bio-kleen-diesel-fuel-biocide/ (http://powerservice.com/psp_product/bio-kleen-diesel-fuel-biocide/)
And, yes, priming is a pain but it's but you have to get all the air out of the filters and the fuel lines to/ on the engine.
You won't have fungus in a fuel tank in AZ Bruce to damn hot for it to survive ;D ,I don't know where he is located in Western AZ but if he is close to me I could lend him a priming setup
Thanks kindly for the advice. I'm not much of a mechanic, and the lines to the fuel filters look like a drunken octopus to me. I'm assuming that by "secondary" you're referring to one of the fuel filters, not sure yet which one. They are both mounted higher than the tank (which is about 25 feet away, behind the right front tire). When I figure out which is which, replace the filters, clean and fill their receptacles with fuel, should I then remove the fuel line going from that filter to the engine and "pressurize" that line with new fuel (by connecting that line to a garden sprayer, temporary electric fuel pump or the like) turn her over until she fires up (hopefully), reconnect to the (secondary) filter and keep my fingers crossed? Do I dare shut the engine down while reconnecting back to the secondary filter? Sorry if these questions seem idiotic. I'm in Parker, AZ, incidentally.
John
No just change and fill both filters and remove the plug in top of the base on the primary filter then pump a couple of gals of fuel through it will fire you are not going to build much pressure the fuel will return to the tank. It's important you keep the system sealed removing a line is a place to allow air to enter the system. When it does fire give it about 1/2 throttle for a few minutes or it may do it again (lose prime). Parker is 80 miles from me or I would come help you
Geez Cliff.....out west 80 miles is only a good stretch of the legs.
LOL I hate that drive John not even a jack rabbit to be seen from Needles to Vidal Junction
Cliff:
If you would help me get my bus running, I would happily drive up to Needles and pick you up and bring you back, buy you lunch/dinner, and a bottle of good wine.
John
Quote from: lawful on February 20, 2016, 05:59:05 AM
Cliff:
If you would help me get my bus running, I would happily drive up to Needles and pick you up and bring you back, buy you lunch/dinner, and a bottle of good wine.
John
80 "Western" miles == 45 minutes!
OK. I'll up the ante. I will fly up to Needles and pick you up, still buy lunch/dinner, and then fly you back. It's about a 20 minute flight, and you wouldn't have to look for jackrabbits.
John
Oh this is going to be interesting!... ::)
Dave
Lawful John, fuel is sucked from the tank to the primary filter, then to the pump. Then is pushed to the secondary filter, then to one head, then the other, then back to the tank. A lot of fuel goes through the injectors without burning to cool them and is pushed back to the tank. So, follow the lines.
Picking up Clifford would be a good day too.
JC
If you don't get running to day PM me with a location and I'll come help you out Sunday but we will drive over
Folks:
Thanks again for your help. I'm convinced that my 4107 did indeed lose prime, but sitting for years can do that, I suppose. I guess this is my punishment for ignoring her for so long.
I went to my local N.A.P.A. store (the only act in town) to buy two new fuel filters (AC T-74 and AC T-65) and was told: "Not in stock, not available." As I'm new to this forum, any suggestions on where I might find some? I'm out in the wilds of western Arizona.
John (lawful)
just prime the ones you have...
I seriously doubt the filters are that bad. filters show their deterioration under load... not sitting still, even at full throttle...
Cliff:
Just discovered your reply. As I just posted, I have not even been able to locate new filters, although I'm not convinced that they are the problem and suspect, instead, that the old girl simply lost prime. I have not been able to get her started, but I did not pull the filters or do the other suggestions yet as I could not locate replacement filters.
If you won't let me pick you up please at least let me pay for your gas and inconvenience if you're willing to come down here. Tomorrow would be good for me if that would be good for you. You can reach me by cellphone at (928) 255-3705, or I'll call you if you would provide your number. If you're willing to come down, please let me know what I can provide (tools, fuel, etc.) on this end. The stores here (except Walmart) tend to close up shop on Sundays.
John
That 92 series should have spin on filters Napa 3120 and 3118 not the old type are you sure about those numbers ?
Cliff:
The engine that the 6V92TA replaced was an 8V71 "318," and the shop that replaced the engine left the original filter set up in there - drains and all. I also had a V730 transmission installed when I bought her (among other things), so it's a bit of a mixed bag of filters back there.
John
Cliff, since you're driving all the way to help him out, Texas isn't far off your path, can you pull a "scott Crosby" and drive out to the rio grande and help me get a little more juice out of my 6v92? :-)
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Quote from: Scott Bennett on February 20, 2016, 07:53:13 PM
Cliff, since you're driving all the way to help him out, Texas isn't far off your path, can you pull a "scott Crosby" and drive out to the rio grande and help me get a little more juice out of my 6v92? :-)
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Scott - Where in Texas name are you?
FWIW ,John only lost prime it just took a few minutes to have him running again.His filters are mounted in a strange place about a foot and 1/2 above the engine at the top of the engine compatment. I think he will just mount a Davco 382 and do away the antique filters.John has a nice 4107 the cleanest I ever saw with a 6v92 and V730,nice car collection along with a nice twin engine air plane ;D a good guy it was a pleasure meeting him and his wife
Fly up to vegas and Ill fly us back as i need my BFR anyhows :) plus i can re=prime the fuel system also!
Nice update. No pics? Sigh. You gotta start posting pics clifford
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Quote from: luvrbus on February 20, 2016, 03:48:35 AM
You won't have fungus in a fuel tank in AZ Bruce to damn hot for it to survive
As a person in the petroleum industry, I can say this is not true. Microbial growth will happen whenever the Utra Low Sulfur Diesel (ULSD) is exposed to water. When sulfur was still in diesel it would kill the Microbial growths before they started. But sulfur also contributes to Acid rain, so it is a trade off.
If you get diesel with signs of Microbial growth, you need to get a biocide. Those little buggers will eat everything including stainless and cast steel.
Also worth note, with the removal of sulfur diesel now has conductive properties much closer to gas than the older formulas. This means that static electricity can occur as the product moves through certain types of pipes. In 2010 there were 3 incidents of tank drives having vaulted tanks exploding on them while delivering diesel.
rule #1.... attach static ground cable .... ?
was this a contributing factor ?
Post Script:
Cliff came down to Parker with his delightful wife and got my 4107 running in a matter of minutes. I just wanted to again than him and all of you for your input and help. I've started her up several times since and she runs fine. I plan to install spin-on filters to make things a bit easier in the future, and hope to take the old gal up to Colorado this summer (up and down Wolf Creek Pass, again).
I'm certainly glad I joined this forum and hope that I can be of help to someone, someday.
On another note, I noticed that my air system seems to be working hard to keep the air pressure up. I then noticed that the device next to the brake air reservoir (in a compartment under the driver's seat) has a constant flow of air coming out of the hole in its side. I'm not sure what it is (I suspect that it is some sort of a valve). Should air be coming out the hole at all times?
John (lawful)
Have someone listen while you push the e brake down and release the brakes ( make sure you have the wheels choked before you do this. If it stops when you do that your pressure release valve might be in need of rebuilding. Or do you have a picture of the valve in question.
Dave5Cs
Sounds like a quick release valve. Nothing to them just a rubber disc inside.
I do have a picture of it, but it has too many megapixels to post on this site. if you have an email address, I could send it to you.
To describe: It's cylindrical, about an inch in diameter and about 2 1/2 inches tall (excluding what appears to be a 1/2" bolt sticking out of its rounded top), is attached to a square base with four screws, to which three "hard" air lines are attached, one of which goes to the air brake reservoir. It has a tiny hole facing towards the front of the bus, closer to the base - that's where the air is coming out. I can see what appears to be a rubber seal between it and the base.
Does that sound like a pressure relief valve?
John
A picture is worth a thousand words, and even more, when everyone uses different names for the same components.
Choose the free picture re-sizing software of your choice and have a go at shrinking your pic to fit!
It won't be the last time you'll be posting pics on here....
happy coaching!
buswarrior
Whatever it is, it shouldn't leak out of the small hole, those are usually there to vent the back side of the moving internals. The pressure is supposed to stay in the other end...
happy coaching!
buswarrior
Shop vac works great for that. Primed in less time than it takes to plug it in. Can beat 6 horse suction.
Sorry that post was ment for an earlier post on this thread. For some reason the page didn't refresh
Quote from: eagle19952 on February 24, 2016, 09:03:40 AM
rule #1.... attach static ground cable .... ?
was this a contributing factor ?
The contractors used a Fiberglass drop tube which used to be ok with diesel. Then they cut it 10" too short at each location. This allowed an air gap that the product fell through. The static charge built up in the fiberglass as the product moved through which lead to a spark which ignited the diesel vapors and exploded the tanks.
You can read more about it here http://core-es.com/wp-content/uploads/ese_nov_dec_2010-ConVault.pdf (http://core-es.com/wp-content/uploads/ese_nov_dec_2010-ConVault.pdf)