And what are the symptoms identifing a muffler needs replacement?
Thanks.
-Sean
When you have to say WHAT a lot :D
Dave
You start losing power,the engine temperature will increase and the black smoke increases,I would just use a resonator in place of the muffler.I see someone snap a photo of your bus in El Paso and posted it on the Silver Eagles Bus Owners F/B page today lol we know where you are
Quote from: luvrbus on February 13, 2016, 01:41:29 AM
You start losing power,the engine temperature will increase and the black smoke increases,I would just use a resonator in place of the muffler.I see someone snap a photo of your bus in El Paso and posted it on the Silver Eagles Bus Owners F/B page today lol we know where you are
Cant hide anywhere these days. Big brother always watching... haha
Cliffy - do you have a part number for said resonator?
I priced a muffler for my MCI a few weeks ago and was totally blown away by the price. It was over $500 for the muffler, straps, and connectors.
It's just a tin can!
WHY !?!?!?
Quote from: Tikvah on February 13, 2016, 02:26:22 AM
I priced a muffler for my MCI a few weeks ago and was totally blown away by the price. It was over $500 for the muffler, straps, and connectors.
It's just a tin can!
WHY !?!?!?
Dang. It was less than that for my new fang dangled spunky starter which probably weighs twice as much and is mostly copper and has moving parts.
Just buy a pc of 5 in flex pipe and clamps to get you to your destination it won't be that loud and will sound cool with the Jakes
On my transit, when I turbo'd it, I discovered the muffler to be too stuffed up to work. When I pulled the muffler, it was this huge 5ft long affair. Course transits they wanted them as quiet as possible. The replacement is a Donaldson 5" oval muffler with both inlet and outlet on the same end. It is considered to be a high performance turbo muffler with very little back pressure. When I got it, I could look down into it and the muffler only had a single baffle between the two sides. Since the bus has a built in up exhaust, I wasn't too worried about noise. It now has a nice tone (going through tunnels). I like the muffler so much, I bought the same one for my truck conversion. The muffler should cost less than $200. Good Luck, TomC
On my truck, it has the original muffler with over 1.2 million miles on it. A good muffler should last a long time. Good Luck, TomC
Quote from: TomC on February 13, 2016, 02:52:30 AM
On my transit, when I turbo'd it, I discovered the muffler to be too stuffed up to work. When I pulled the muffler, it was this huge 5ft long affair. Course transits they wanted them as quiet as possible. The replacement is a Donaldson 5" oval muffler with both inlet and outlet on the same end. It is considered to be a high performance turbo muffler with very little back pressure. When I got it, I could look down into it and the muffler only had a single baffle between the two sides. Since the bus has a built in up exhaust, I wasn't too worried about noise. It now has a nice tone (going through tunnels). I like the muffler so much, I bought the same one for my truck conversion. The muffler should cost less than $200. Good Luck, TomC
Tom,
Do you have a part number for that fancy thang?
-Sean
This is the resonator I am using:
https://catalog.donaldson.com/productDetail/en/A/M090072?productId=14176&skuId=s16749&_requestid=1652161
It replaces the muffler I took out, which was about 4 feet long by 2 wide, oval, and heavy. It saves a lot of space. We don't hear it from inside the bus. But it is fairly loud from outside. I love it. My wife, not so much. Going through Mobile AL on I10, I turned the Jakes on with the window open going down in the tunnel. That was fun... The bus runs better with it. A little cooler, no smoke out the pipe anymore. The less restriction, the better.
JC
The thing is empty, nothing in it. Makes me wonder if a straight pipe would sound any different...
JC
Sean the muffler on your Eagle is a special muffler you won't buy it for 200 bucks it is made by Nelson, you could probably make the Donaldson work but it will cost you more in the end
Quoteyou could probably make the Donaldson work but it will cost you more in the end
Why would it cost more in the end?
We can buy that Donaldson on Ebay for $75 http://www.ebay.com/itm/M090072-Donaldson-5-Inch-Resonator-/171199432142?hash=item27dc4805ce:g:4iQAAMXQL99Sb7U5&vxp=mtr (http://www.ebay.com/itm/M090072-Donaldson-5-Inch-Resonator-/171199432142?hash=item27dc4805ce:g:4iQAAMXQL99Sb7U5&vxp=mtr)
Maybe run two?
Does it matter what we use?
Can I use any 5" muffler?
like this: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Flo-Pro-Max-5-Stainless-Steel-Performance-Diesel-Muffler-24-Body-M12774-/161673812201?hash=item25a48298e9:g:mO4AAOSwPhdVLo0L&vxp=mtr (http://www.ebay.com/itm/Flo-Pro-Max-5-Stainless-Steel-Performance-Diesel-Muffler-24-Body-M12774-/161673812201?hash=item25a48298e9:g:mO4AAOSwPhdVLo0L&vxp=mtr)
You start buying 5 in fittings and pipe to reroute a muffler if you don't do it yourself it can run into money in a hurry
Quote from: Tikvah on February 13, 2016, 02:26:22 AM
I priced a muffler for my MCI a few weeks ago and was totally blown away by the price. It was over $500 for the muffler, straps, and connectors.
It's just a tin can!
Heck, MCI wanted over $1000 for the muffler for my Dina! I spent weeks looking for an alternative and finally found that one company still had a cross reference for the Dina part number. A number of companies made the muffler over the years because International used it on some trucks, but most have discontinued it. I couldn't get new straps as I couldn't anyone making 12" oval muffler straps anymore. (MCI did not have the straps anymore.) I paid around $400 for the muffler.
I had to replace the muffler because the tail pipe was so rusted it was falling apart at the end. There was no way I could separate the tail pipe from the muffler due to rust and I might have broken the muffler anyhow. The muffler was pretty rusty, but not noisy that I could tell. There was really no space for a different muffler or resonator. I was able to find a tailpipe that was really, really close to the original for a lot less than MCI wanted for the original.
Could one just gut the bad muffler but keep it in place? If you have a sweet turbo Detroit 2 stroke, just run the gutted muffler then place a nice approved spark arrestor on the end of the tailpipe? Would that quiet it down enough ... if you kept your foot out of it in town? I am thinking about the maximum allowable back pressure on turbo 2 stroke Detroits. Just me.
Quote from: Tikvah on February 13, 2016, 03:43:45 AM
Does it matter what we use?
Can I use any 5" muffler?
like this: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Flo-Pro-Max-5-Stainless-Steel-Performance-Diesel-Muffler-24-Body-M12774-/161673812201?hash=item25a48298e9:g:mO4AAOSwPhdVLo0L&vxp=mtr (http://www.ebay.com/itm/Flo-Pro-Max-5-Stainless-Steel-Performance-Diesel-Muffler-24-Body-M12774-/161673812201?hash=item25a48298e9:g:mO4AAOSwPhdVLo0L&vxp=mtr)
Dave,
That looks like it would work for me. I've got about 36" of tailpipe that would replace. As long as it doesn't produce much backpressure.
Maybe the resonator. But I'll probably be straight piping it by sundown today.
Looks like if I pull the muffler I just need about 2' of flexpipe to hit the tailpipe and that should fix me up for now. Clamps and hangers are already in place. Might need one more hanger.
Not many parts needed to make either the resonator or the 24" Flopro work.
Thanks guys. Hopefully this fixed my issues.
-Sean
Donaldson M120131.
I had a friend in the metal recycling business in florida who gets
Buses all the time. He called me when he got a 9 in and it had a nearly new muffler. I pulled it off for free and installed it in my coach. Fun. Actually not fun. But quiet.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Quote from: HB of CJ on February 13, 2016, 07:05:34 AM
Could one just gut the bad muffler but keep it in place? If you have a sweet turbo Detroit 2 stroke, just run the gutted muffler then place a nice approved spark arrestor on the end of the tailpipe? Would that quiet it down enough ... if you kept your foot out of it in town? I am thinking about the maximum allowable back pressure on turbo 2 stroke Detroits. Just me.
I don't know if this 6V92 is completely mufferless, or if it has just a resonator, or what, but it sure sounds good: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wz_VJB3y89M (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wz_VJB3y89M) I suspect I have the same Donaldson muffler as Tom has - it's not loud, but it definitely makes a throaty sound. Or you could do what my friend Al did with his Crown's 6-71T: he just performed a radical mufflerectomy and put in a piece of straight pipe instead!
John
That's what mine sounds like against a wall too. So straight pipe or resonator must be a balance between enjoying the sound and added performance for yourself, and how much you think is OK to aggravate the public with the noise. Much like a loud motorcycle: not everybody thinks it is cool.
JC
Anyone looking I have a new old stock, 5" in one end and 5" out on the other. $40.00 but shipping will not be cheap. Tom
Tom,
I need one, and I'd be a fool to pass that up.
Where are you located?
What's a muffler? ???
So I took the muffler off and installed a 90 degree and now I have a straight pipe.
First thing Mack (my bus) says to me... "Bout time bro, mufflers are for girl buses"
It is loud. Not deafening but I don't need a tachometer to know what my RPMs are.
Jake's are really loud.
Temps are back to normal (best they have ever been) and my power is back. Was actually able to get up to the speed limit a few times heading into Junction TX on 10.
I think I'm going to go resonator. It would be great if you could install a diverter to use a muffler in town and straight pipe on the hwy.
Thanks all. All that headache back in Montana and all I needed was a muffler.
-Sean
Had great success using two Magnaflow style glasspacks on my 6V71. Both 3", rated to flow well over 1000 CFM each. My bus has dual exhaust from the factory, which makes this setup work quite well. I'd be comfortable using it on upto a 8V71N.
I was afraid of them being too loud, especially low frequency drone, but turned out quieter than my old rusted out mufflers (which were none flow-through).
Engine breaths a lot better, and I spend a total of $130 on the mufflers, and maybe another $70 on clamps and 3.5" to 3.0" reducers.
I guess Tom's muffler won't work for me. Mine goes in and out both on the back end of the muffler.
Any other ideas?
(https://busconversionmagazine.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1239.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fff504%2Ftikvahmarketing%2FIMG_0458%25202.jpg&hash=93e9bbcd694318e865a1f04d9dc8e4920294c8c2)
(https://busconversionmagazine.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1239.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fff504%2Ftikvahmarketing%2FIMG_0462.jpg&hash=00c4e451732963d27f7e1e65ab94dc47340456b4)
Rule of thumb Dave a muffler for a DD needs to be 2+ times the CFM of the air cleaner,Donaldson has a formula for figuring it on their web page bigger is better IMO
Looks like no free lunch. I thought I could get a cheaper muffler, even if a bit louder. But this is a strange beast.
I just can't justify $500 + for a muffler.
Most buses are that way Dave,Sean's factory muffler for his Eagle is a hi dollar sucker,the last one I priced for the Eagle I owned with a 8v92 Jefferson said 800 bucks so I sold the bus and let Matt worry about it ;D
QuoteRule of thumb Dave a muffler for a DD needs to be 2+ times the CFM of the air cleaner,Donaldson has a formula for figuring it on their web page bigger is better IMO
I haven't any idea what that means. I'm not as edukated as some folks :)
How could you possibly know the CFM of the air cleaner?
Anyway, Tom posted a M120131 Donaldson MUFFLER that shows on Ebay for $181.81 + shipping. There are specs for CFM but I wouldn't know where to start.
Dave
Just trying to help you Dave, sorry carry on with what you are doing :o
Quote from: Tikvah on February 15, 2016, 06:00:49 AM
I haven't any idea what that means. I'm not as edukated as some folks :)
How could you possibly know the CFM of the air cleaner?
Anyway, Tom posted a M120131 Donaldson MUFFLER that shows on Ebay for $181.81 + shipping. There are specs for CFM but I wouldn't know where to start.
Dave
LOOK HERE ::) it's actually a little more than double....more is better... on both ends
http://www.asia.donaldson.com/en/exhaust/support/datalibrary/1053747.pdf (http://www.asia.donaldson.com/en/exhaust/support/datalibrary/1053747.pdf)
8V-71n............
.........................CFM........................CFM
RPM........HP.......IN Flow.....Temp....EX FLOW
1800 ...... 233......753........ 850 .......1827
2300 ...... 314......954........ 850 .......2314
2100 ...... 304......874... .....850 .......2120
Cliff - we all know Jefferson is proud (real proud) of their parts. I always ask them first (cause they have it) and divide by two to figure what I should be paying for it.
I think I like the glasspacks. Simple and easy. Maybe Ill split my 5" to dual 3.5s side by side. Would sound nice and plenty of airflow. 60 bucks a piece for one.
Now if I can just find a 5" to dual 3.5" pipe.
-Sean
Quote from: Seangie on February 15, 2016, 11:20:05 AM
Cliff - we all know Jefferson is proud (real proud) of their parts. I always ask them first (cause they have it) and divide by two to figure what I should be paying for it.
I think I like the glasspacks. Simple and easy. Maybe Ill split my 5" to dual 3.5s side by side. Would sound nice and plenty of airflow. 60 bucks a piece for one.
Now if I can just find a 5" to dual 3.5" pipe.
-Sean
Hey, Sean - how about a plain "Y" and then 5-to-3 1/2 reducers on each side?
http://www.truckpipestore.com/all-5-pipe-types (http://www.truckpipestore.com/all-5-pipe-types)
Quote from: Seangie on February 15, 2016, 11:20:05 AMI think I like the glasspacks. Simple and easy. Maybe Ill split my 5" to dual 3.5s side by side. Would sound nice and plenty of airflow. 60 bucks a piece for one.
Now if I can just find a 5" to dual 3.5" pipe.
-Sean
Why not look into 5" diesel "performance" mufflers? Like these:
http://flowmonster.com/i-6682698-fm2774-flowmonster-stainless-muffler-diesel-trucks-5-center-center.html (http://flowmonster.com/i-6682698-fm2774-flowmonster-stainless-muffler-diesel-trucks-5-center-center.html)
I find "consumer" diesel exhaust to be much cheaper than pro stuff like Donaldson, and work well enough for most of our applications.
Quote from: RoyJ on February 15, 2016, 04:01:38 PM
Why not look into 5" diesel "performance" mufflers? Like these:
http://flowmonster.com/i-6682698-fm2774-flowmonster-stainless-muffler-diesel-trucks-5-center-center.html (http://flowmonster.com/i-6682698-fm2774-flowmonster-stainless-muffler-diesel-trucks-5-center-center.html)
I find "consumer" diesel exhaust to be much cheaper than pro stuff like Donaldson, and work well enough for most of our applications.
I like that -- I was also thinking (for Sean's application) that if I were going to do a Y connector, I'd look at going bigger than 3 1/2 inch on each branch. There is a 4" muffler (about $100 each) right on that same page.
Quote from: RoyJ on February 15, 2016, 04:01:38 PM
Why not look into 5" diesel "performance" mufflers? Like these:
http://flowmonster.com/i-6682698-fm2774-flowmonster-stainless-muffler-diesel-trucks-5-center-center.html (http://flowmonster.com/i-6682698-fm2774-flowmonster-stainless-muffler-diesel-trucks-5-center-center.html)
I find "consumer" diesel exhaust to be much cheaper than pro stuff like Donaldson, and work well enough for most of our applications.
Roy - Thanks! I could not find a 5" glasspack. Thats exactly what I need. I'll do dually exhaust on the next bus.
-Sean
I had to replace the muffler on my NJT Model 20. My truck parts dealer has a source for semi custom mufflers for about $350.00. By the way, I think they built the bus around the muffler. Art
Sean check the Aero I have used those before a good product
Clifford -
Thanks. Just checked them. I might go with this one . . .
http://www.aeroexhaust.com/mufflers/aero-exhaust-at5050xl-diesel-muffler.html (http://www.aeroexhaust.com/mufflers/aero-exhaust-at5050xl-diesel-muffler.html)
-Sean