I was wondering, has anyone installed a small wood burning or pellet stove in their bus? And if so, any recommendations, how did it work, how was it vented, through the roof or out the side. And what do you do with the stove piping while going down the road?
I have not used either in a bus. I have had a wood stove at home though. I would think that a wood stove would be best vented through the roof to get the best draft. A pellet stove though, can use a flu similar to one used for a gas heater and could easily go out the side.
If you search around here on the forum, there's been a decent amount of discussion on wood stoves in coaches. Some here have even installed one. It can be done. You can exhaust it through the roof. You would need to form a cap that was sheltered at the front of the bus and opened towards the rear if you're using it when driving. But I think the consensus is that having an actual wood fire in a moving bus is a little scary, not so much while it's moving but if you crash or roll, you have hot embers flying everywhere and if that doesn't do you in, the guaranteed ensuing fire sure will. Best used when parked and use coach heat when in motion.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Yacht stoves are the way to go.
http://www.shipmatestove.com/Details.cfm?ProdID=32&category=6 (http://www.shipmatestove.com/Details.cfm?ProdID=32&category=6)
Bruce
if we used our coach in the cold for long periods of time I would put 1 in , just make sure it's safe , do not use it when driving .
we heat with wood at home and it is amazing !
https://www.google.ca/search?q=small+boat+wood+burning+stove&client=opera&hs=Wrb&tbm=isch&imgil=EeCi__83d6E6iM%253A%253BZkG-CUrZo2sw-M%253Bhttp%25253A%25252F%25252Fforum.woodenboat.com%25252Fshowthread.php%25253F125184-New-wood-stove-burning-stove-for-boats&source=iu&pf=m&fir=EeCi__83d6E6iM%253A%252CZkG-CUrZo2sw-M%252C_&biw=1600&bih=790&usg=__Jw20CdJRmvN7riQfmAuagC5sEWU%3D&ved=0ahUKEwjF1fu-3NbKAhVD3yYKHZjdAv8QyjcIUw&ei=imSvVsXoEMO-mwGYu4v4Dw#imgrc=EeCi__83d6E6iM%3A&usg=__Jw20CdJRmvN7riQfmAuagC5sEWU%3D (https://www.google.ca/search?q=small+boat+wood+burning+stove&client=opera&hs=Wrb&tbm=isch&imgil=EeCi__83d6E6iM%253A%253BZkG-CUrZo2sw-M%253Bhttp%25253A%25252F%25252Fforum.woodenboat.com%25252Fshowthread.php%25253F125184-New-wood-stove-burning-stove-for-boats&source=iu&pf=m&fir=EeCi__83d6E6iM%253A%252CZkG-CUrZo2sw-M%252C_&biw=1600&bih=790&usg=__Jw20CdJRmvN7riQfmAuagC5sEWU%3D&ved=0ahUKEwjF1fu-3NbKAhVD3yYKHZjdAv8QyjcIUw&ei=imSvVsXoEMO-mwGYu4v4Dw#imgrc=EeCi__83d6E6iM%3A&usg=__Jw20CdJRmvN7riQfmAuagC5sEWU%3D)
something like this . mounted up high with a heat shield , a cap to close it off the chimney on the inside
dave
If you have a positive pressure while driving in the bus it would feed to much air into the stove and burn to much fuel wood/pellets. A negative pressure in the bus could cause smoke or even heat from the combustion chamber to come into the living area. As stated only burn it while parked. I don't think any manufacturer offers wood stoves in motor homes for safety reasons and it may possiblly be against code. If your bus burns up because of a wood/pellet stove is you insurance going to cover it ??
I have been using wood stoves to heat all my life. I would not use one in the bus unless I was desperate with nothing else to heat with. A stove in a bus will be small, so you'll have to cut the wood really small to fit: more work, and constantly feeding the stove. Also the fire is not going to last all night. You will have to be up a couple of times a night to keep it going. Your supply of fire wood would be easy to manage if you are sitting stationary for a while. But while travelling, you'd have to carry some wood in the bus, and find some more on the road, which won't be easy. Also think of the mess where you store the wood, and around the stove, you're constantly cleaning up. And the ashes... Then there is the space you need for clearances around the stove. A bus isn't big to start with.
The best wood stove is the outdoor wood furnace we have at the house in BC. I feed it once every 24 hours with 3 foot long logs. I don't have to split them either, unless they are too heavy to handle. It sits 100 feet from the house, it heats water which is circulated to a heat exchanger in the basement for the infloor hydronic heat. You could have a system like that on a trailer you pulled with the bus...
JC
I had a small "top of the line" wood stove in my house for 20 years, and it worked great, but it was a hassle to clean and the dust from the ashes spread everywhere when you cleaned it out. I have a Scholastic Webasto 45k diesel fired heater in my bus and it is much better for a bus application than a wood stove could ever be.
--Geoff
Traditional solid wood-burning stoves - even modern fan-assisted ones, are dinosaur technology compared to the sort of self-feeding pellet stoves that are around now - compact, clean, high-output and actually quite suitable for bus use in many ways. Cheap to run too, but very expensive to buy.
Solid wood stoves really aren't practical as has been said, and my gut says that unless you're using one constantly, a Webasto (or even, God forbid, propane) makes more sense in a bus than a pellet stove
Jeremy
You better check with your vehicle insurance company first. I doubt they would approve it's use.
You can't beat a Kimberly Stove. You can heat with wood, pellets, and charcoal. Roger Lehet designed and sells them at RV and Tiny House shows around the country. He sold about a dozen in 10 days at the Quartzsite rally.
With his stove you can also buy options to heat hot water, generate electricity, add a Dutch oven, and a cook top.
Also when you have a wood stove you get warmed up five ways. When you cut the wood, when you split the wood, when you carry the wood into the bus, when you stoke the fire, and when you clean out the ashes. No need for a gym membership when you have a wood stove. Oh, and by the way, they also keep you VERY cozy.
We ran three articles about them in the following BCM issues. January and March 2013 and again in the July 2015 issues.
Check them out at www.unforgettablefirellc.com (http://www.unforgettablefirellc.com). Tell him Gary sent you.
You can also watch one being installed in a floating RV here.... www.unforgettablefirellc.com/videos/rv (http://www.unforgettablefirellc.com/videos/rv)
Here is one of his stoves that we had in our booth in Quartzsite to keep us warm.
Definitely thinking about buying a Kimberly wood burning stove for the bus. Looks awesome ;D
I wouldn't ever have fire producing furnace in the bus. Propane or Diesel furnaces (boilers) are sealed affairs. The wood burning is an exposed fire that can be dangerous. In a boat that has much more beam (width) and boats typically don't thrash around like a bus can. Good Luck, TomC
the problem with propane RV furnaces ( I have a small one for back up ) is they are really bad for efficiency ( 40-60% ) even the crappiest home gas fire place is about 70 % and it is crap. it's to bad they can't make a good RV furnaces
has any one tried a propane home on demand water heater , used as a in floor or forced air rad heater on a closed loop . as they are about 80-95 % efficient
they have a high btu rating but in a small system I think the propane use would be small
the size of the unit is smallish at about 12" d x 20"h x 16"w with zero combustible tolerance
http://www.zoro.com/rheem-water-heater-tankless-lp-11k-180k-btu-rtg-84dvlp/i/G4581096/ (http://www.zoro.com/rheem-water-heater-tankless-lp-11k-180k-btu-rtg-84dvlp/i/G4581096/)
I have this system at home with a rinnai tankless to heat my shop and it works great
dave
Dave, honestly this is why I'm really
Struggling with propane furnaces. Lots of waste heat. I'm thinking about a hydronic system based on Instant hot water systems. But it's a bit complex to build. I've been reading articles on mr money mustache about it
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I am doing a wood stove in mine and I did a LOT of research on this before deciding on a Hobbit with the outside air option.
It pulls combustion air from an outside vent and not from your coach!
No letting cold air into the bus to feed the fire.
http://salamanderstoves.com/product/small-stove-direct-air/ (http://salamanderstoves.com/product/small-stove-direct-air/)
http://salamanderstoves.com/the-hobbit-stove/ (http://salamanderstoves.com/the-hobbit-stove/)
There are restrictions in some places about moving firewood around, due to the risk of providing damaging invasive species transportation to new areas to infest.
Dead Elm, Ash, Oak, Pine and Spruce ruin both the lumber industry and tourist type pursuits.
For example, from New York:
New York's forests are under attack from numerous invasive exotic insect pests. In years past, we have been hit with Chestnut blight, European gypsy moth, Dutch elm disease and Beech bark disease, all with devastating results. Recently, we have discovered Asian long-horned beetles, Hemlock wooly adelgids, Pine shoot beetles and Sirex woodwasps infesting New York's urban and rural forests and killing thousands of trees. Other, potentially devastating insect invaders such as Emerald ash borer and Asian gypsy moth loom just over the horizon
The western forests are similarly facing challenges.
Don't be a carrier!!!
Gather, source and burn your wood locally, don't transport it.
happy coaching!
buswarrior
Of course, for those that are unhappy with the efficiency of RV gas furnaces but don't mind giving up the floor space for a wood stove, there are small, efficient (80%+), residential gas furnaces available. One could even paint flames on the side for ambiance!
This should up the ante for the Kimberly stove some. You can also burn cow patties or any other similar free "natural material" to create genuine warmth in your bus. So those of you that drive thru the country, should get a Kimberly stove then stop at all of the farms along the way and fill every open cabinet with this free "fuel" and you will be able to heat your bus for practically nothing. This is called "recycling" which is the new trend. This kind of fuel goes a long way so if you fill your bus one time, it will probably last you several months or even a year on the road.
Then the tree-huggers won't be following you around the country pestering you about killing trees. This way too you won't have to worry about any of those dadgum propane or fuel leaks that so many folks are concerned about.
I grew up in the country and we found gathering up cow dung was much easer then cutting wood for our boy scout campfires that we cooked our hot dogs on.
I personally like wood burning stoves. I heat my house with one now and enjoy cutting and splitting the wood. I don't mind the mess which is very manageable, I actually enjoy farting around stoking the fire box and all the chores which come with it. I like the ambience of a fire and how it's relaxing in the evening, I'll probably have a wood stove in my MC9 but I'll also have a propane furnace for backup. Like everything else in life it's only dangerous if you neglect to take the necessary precautions. And also like everything else in life at least for me, if you don't like it.....don't do it but let those who want to try. I will say I totally agree with the earlier post about not bringing your own wood, source it locally to avoid spreading disease.
Bruce
Here's a diesel fired stove if anybody's interested.
http://www.marinestove.com/herringinfo.htm (http://www.marinestove.com/herringinfo.htm)
Bruce
I have a diesel fired cabin heater to install in my bus, in addition to the 40K BTU propane furnace.
My intention is to use the cabin heater (think bulkhead sailboat heater) during the spring/fall when dry camping.
I do love my wood stoves, but I do no like getting up in the middle of the night to put more wood on the fire when I get cold. If I were full-timing in only a couple of fixed locations, then the wood stove might make sense, if you could get one that would go 8 hrs w/o needing stoked. Coal is also a possibility, but the smoke is really nasty, especially when in a confined area like a campground (and would definitely draw a lot of attention at WalMart!).
Two factors always kind of drive my designs--Efficiency and Redundancy. The diesel heaters are very efficient in three ways: 1) They burn liquid fuel with the highest BTU/gallon available, and 2) the fuel requires little space to carry on-board, and 3)they are not extremely expensive (under $1K for a very good one).
To Redundancy - 1) the Propane is great when parked and 12V DC is plentiful 2) The diesel heat is a backup if something goes haywire with the propane/12VDC in the middle of the night. Vice Versa of the above is also true.
The tiny woodstoves that are available come with a price that is disproportionate to their size($2.5K - $4.5K), which makes me think 1) people who buy them are getting ripped and 2) I should start manufacturing my own! I really would think about one, but even the differential cost between my $400 propane furnace and the $2.5K wood stove would likely buy me enough propane for at least a decade of spring and fall camping.
To each his own, but when space and $$ are scarce, you need to examine your camping/full-timing goals and see what makes the most sense for your own situation.
Steve Toomey
That's why a pellet stove might be best. You can buy them anywhere and store a few bags in your luggage bays. Safe to transport. Also, we have to keep in mind it takes very little wood/pellet burning to roast you out of your 200 some odd square foot bus. I was thinking of using like a ten hour duraflame prefab log :) wood keep you warm all night long :)
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
These are fairly cheap :) burn 12 hours. Very little ash:
http://www.hearthwise.com/pricing.html
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Hello Group,
I got to meet Gary Hatt recently (nice guy by the way) and he has asked me to share with you all what I know as the inventor of the Kimberly Wood stove with regards to installing in bus conversions. My first comment is that while it is a new thing here at home it is quite common in England where allot of "caravans" are heated with wood, in fact if one thinks bout it even Leaf Erickson and the Vikings needed heat on their sailing ships, coal and wood were very common.
The Kimberly was invented solely to heat the boat my family took refuge on after the economic disaster hit Seattle in 2008, we lost pretty much everything but a 28 foot Bayliner Contessa Sunbridge that ran on occasion, I never meant to go into business again. Oddly however the "little stove that could" seemed to develop a life of her own and a story of helping people as it did for us. It not only had to heat smokelessly (or close) but cook, bake, and produce all our hot water for cooking and sanitation. On top of that it had to do so in a very small and enclosed space, with fuel on board, both Gasoline and Propane. This may address one of the most common questions we get.....is it safe?.
My safety concerns for our family of Kimberly owners runs very deep because when I was a young man I witnessed a car accident in which 3 people burned to death right before my eyes....I was nearly hurt in the process of trying to rescue them.....a night I will NEVER forget. In my mind the things needed for a safe Kimberly installation are often things that should be kept a close eye on with any moving home. As a former gas line installer for residential application I know that gas line fittings should be periodically checked with soapy water for leakage. A wood stove poses no more danger than a running stove/oven or even a cigarette when LP gas leaks and pools on the floor. Care should be taken with all gasoline engines to make sure these lines are not leaking either......this should be regular maintenance regardless of what form of heat one relies upon.
Over the last 4 years we have sold nearly 650 stoves, mostly in the Tiny House Community as well as the RV and Conversion community. We have worked on everything from hippy buses (see the March 2013 BCM cover story) to the more upscale and expensive models. This has given us many parameters to work with. We offer full design and installation support to our customers at no extra cost. We are able to provide customized pipe and safe install practices as well. The biggest concerns I have is that people get their information directly from myself or one of my trained professionals. One must consider all aspects of living tiny with a heat producing appliance......any appliance, Kimberly is no different.
Another common topic regarding our particular stove is always cost. Yes we realize that this is no cheap stove and we make no bones about it. It is simply ungodly costly to invent and produce anything in America today, it is what it is so to speak. We also know that most people will spend around $2000.00 a year keeping warm. With Kimberly one can see a payoff in about 2 years, much faster in some cases. A great example would be the fellows working in the North Dakota Bakken oil fields. Talk about crazy, these poor fellows are often spending up to $600 a moth on propane to keep a camper warm....do the math right? But that's not the only way in which Kimberly is a sensible investment. The ability to cook and bake food as well as boil water could be really set back if anything big were to happen to our power grid, having off grid capability could well be a life saver. Being as that there is no amount of money that can replace your life this investment again makes sense.
I guess my last comment comes from a biased opinion as the inventor, but also from someone who has 31 years in the wood stove industry. I believe there is no better choice for the offgrid, mobile lifestyle than Kimberly. We have built this stove like a bomb shelter and put a full 5 year fix or replace warranty on both of our stoves (the Katydid is meant for larger homes). Her heat output, portability and our customer care are simply not represented by any other product line I know of. Sure there are cheaper stoves available but most weigh 3 or 4 times what Kimberly does and take up far more space.....and eat allot more fuel. I hope this answers some of the questions I know people have about this "new" yet exciting addition to "down sizing" and going mobile.......stay safe and stay warm !!
Anyone interested in further information is welcome to email me directly at unforgettablefire66@gmail.com or visit the website at www.unforgettablefirellc.com (http://www.unforgettablefirellc.com)
Roger Lehet...inventor, CEO and fellow traveller!
Well......
I shared what I wrote with my wife and she said......................
One thing we discovered living aboard was MOLD. We had tried numerous types of heat from an expensive portable generator and space heater to propane with all the bloody moisture (propane carries 33% water) to a pellet stove (try getting pellets if the grid fails and pellet stoves need electricity) and finally I built a wood stove. My fuel costs took a deep dive as often dry wood in this size is often free and Kimberly's appetite is petite, around 30 lbs hardwood a day. The most comforting this was that my wife was sick from mold and we had a way to cure it. I believe that smaller homes are harder to keep dry because they don't breathe like larger homes do, therefore mold can grow and do damage to your health and your home, dry rot is no fun to fix.
Roger, does the stove have a catalytic burning system? Is there a kit to draw outside air for combustion?
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Hello Scott and Heather
I have designed my own form of secondary combustor without the use of hard to mine, hard to maintain and easily damaged noble metals normally used in catalytic combustors. We use time, temperature and turbulence to expend all volatile gasses during the "re-burn" process through a stainless steel honeycomb that achieves the same effect without the environmental damage that catalytic equipment embodies. We also hve through the botom or the rear wall outside air induction available for all our stoves as per National building code for residential application.
Thanks for asking
Roger
Thanks roger.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Hello bus nuts.......hopefully everyone is warm??
Unforgettable Fire is interested in working more with Bus Conversions Magazine and we have an idea. If anyone would be interested in being a part of the magazine we are looking for news worthy projects to do at least one article on in BCM. The idea is that we give away a chimney kit with the purchase of a Kimberly stove and feature your bus and the story of your installation along with what Kimberly can do for you. We have done this before and it worked out really well as this is something people need to know is available. This would save you about $500.00 on your package and your bus would be featured in BCM.
Thanks everyone
Roger Lehet, inventor
This is our third full-time winter heating with wood. For the first two years we used a homemade stove with a firebox that took 12" logs. I built my own insulated collar to pierce the roof and used 6" double wall insulated stove pipe inside the homemade collar. Bought the pipe, cap and fittings from McMaster Carr at a considerable saving compared to the stove shops. The chimney works great. The stove not so much. It kept us from freezing, but it used a tremendous amount of wood, made dense clouds of smoke, and generated gallons of ash mixed with live coals every day. In extreme cold, feeding and cleaning it was almost a full-time job.
This past December, I bought a new Morso 1410 Squirrel. Cast iron, secondary combustion, made by a 150-year-old Danish company. This stove is wonderful. Only takes 10" logs, and that requires a bit more wood working time, but that's the only down side. It's a small stove with a small firebox, but I've worked out getting a four-to-five-hour burn with plenty of live coal left to load and leave. At my age, I'm up once or twice every night anyway, so tending the stove is no problem. We love this little sucker:
(https://busconversionmagazine.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.busconversions.com%2Fimages%2Fwoodstove.jpg&hash=6a8a049ac3c7da824947a93511d4cbe11358190d)
This stove requires some fabrication to bolt it into a moving vehicle, but it's no big deal. We looked hard at Kimberly, and that would have been our choice if they were reasonably priced. I think it's a wonderful product, but the fact is that we could not afford one. I'm happy for those of you who can, but it's out of our league.
Compared to our homemade stove, the Morso burns dramatically less wood, produces little-to-no smoke after warmup, and generates about a quart of ash each day. The ash drops into a removable pan through a riddling gate, so ash does does not fly everywhere as it would while shoveling. Best of all, it was $950 tax included. I picked it up at a dealer about 18 miles away. They set it in my van, and I installed it in my bus. My chimney required no modification. We do not use the stove while traveling. The SS chimney cap unscrews with about 1/8th rotation. I replace that with an 8" rubber cap (also from McMaster Carr) when we are moving.
I've heard all the arguments against wood heat in a motor home and against wood heat in general. Truth is that it's a great and sustainable source of dry heat and is not more dangerous than other heating options IF INSTALLED AND USED CORRECTLY. Those who don't want to heat with wood shouldn't. We can't imagine our bus without it. What some consider trouble we find pleasurable. I'm sitting beside the stove as I write, and the kettle is almost hot enough for tea.
Best to all,
Jim
moderator edit - fixed the rotated photo
Many of you may not realize this, but my first camper had a Kimberly Stove in it. It heated the entire rig very well. As you can see in this old photo I just dug up, I placed it in the rear corner and it heated up the entire rig very well. A lot of great roadkill was cooked on this great stove and the still attachment allowed me to make my own spirits so I was always happy. But from what I understand, this option is no longer available. Roger told me that it sold too well and he couldn't keep up with the demand. ;D
Love that windshield visor
Quote from: Lostranger on February 09, 2016, 05:35:28 AM
moderator edit - fixed the rotated photo
I'd love to know that process.
Jim
Gary, I don't see any dents or scratches on it. Quite remarkable, given that the time was before safety cameras on vehicles...
JC
Back then I didn't need a good backup camera. I had a wife. She was great at backing me into those tight spaces in the woods, especially with my large sun visor and high roofline. She was a great cook as well. That Roadkill Helper sure does make Possum taste delicious. But eventually she left me to go with a guy with a larger truck and two Kimberly stoves. Couldn't blame her I suppose.
So I either needed a new wife or a good backup camera. So I bought an Omniview 360 degree – Zero Blind Spot camera system. I thought it might be less expensive. Check it out here https://youtu.be/rDUmM9OcDiY What do you think? Good choice?
The EPA has new regulations coming on wood stoves next month it won't be long before they are banned or have catalytic converters and using DEF,it's really getting bad in AZ and here in the west with all the EPA BS on wood burning fire places by the time I get ours burning here comes a friggn no burn day
When we lived in North Monterrey County, near Santa Cruz, we had a wood stove which we dearly loved. We were probably one of the few in that neighborhood that had one, so I never considered whether it was causing pollution or not. However, one coldish winter day we went driving up Hwy 9 into the Santa Cruz mountains where everyone used wood stoves. The air was thick with smoke and smog. It was enough to actually form a film on the windshield combining with the ambient moisture. If one considers second hand smoke a problem, this was certainly a lot worse than cigarettes-- especially if one were to include particulates.
I continued to use our stove for a couple of years until we sold the house, but was well aware that, as great as it was as a heat source and contributor to a home atmosphere of peace and will being, it really was capable of seriously degrading air quality. As the saying goes, "There is no free lunch"; everything we do is liable to have some impact on the environment and therefore others around us. Unfortunately, there are just too many people living relatively close together to avoid general regulation. If you are out there alone on the prairie with your boom box dialed up--who cares? But if you are next door to me fifty feet away, I very well might.
Quote from: luvrbus on February 10, 2016, 06:55:58 AM
The EPA has new regulations coming on wood stoves next month it won't be long before they are banned or have catalytic converters and using DEF,it's really getting bad in AZ and here in the west with all the EPA BS on wood burning fire places by the time I get ours burning here comes a friggn no burn day
I'm not sure where you are getting this information, there is much dis-information even in publications such as the Huffington post. As a manufacturer of wood stoves I am often updated directly by the EPA as new requirements force our compliance. What we know today is that our Kimberly model is certified for all 50 states and 13 provinces of Canada. I can tell you that Catalyst equipped stoves have been banned in much of Alaska due to the short life cycle in that environment, the Air Quality agencies there prefer non catalytic units as replacement of the cat is expensive and rarely gets done.
Our Katydid stove is also non cat and has recently been awarded (by the EPA burn wise program) as one of the few non cat stoves meeting the 2020 clean air standards today at 1.9 grams of particulate emissions per hour. By comparison before regulations in the late 80's stoves were pumping out 80+ grams per hour. Our Kimberly model runs at 3.2 GPH.
Lastly there have been some states, counties or "air standard" activity that supersedes the EPA standards. This is something that should be fought tooth and nail in my opinion, many states are battling it out with groups who have little understanding of the capability of new stoves, nor the comparison to burning gas as an example. Just one fracking well fire s far worse on the environment than all the wood burning stoves combined. All we need do to fuel a wood stove is harvest a tree. Compared to burning gas there is nothing cleaner in the big picture.
Just my thoughts and what I know from the EPA
Roger Lehet
inventor/CEO
Quote from: unforgettablefire on February 10, 2016, 10:18:44 AM
Quote from: luvrbus on February 10, 2016, 06:55:58 AM
The EPA has new regulations coming on wood stoves next month it won't be long before they are banned or have catalytic converters and using DEF,it's really getting bad in AZ and here in the west with all the EPA BS on wood burning fire places by the time I get ours burning here comes a friggn no burn day
I'm not sure where you are getting this information, there is much dis-information even in publications such as the Huffington post. As a manufacturer of wood stoves I am often updated directly by the EPA as new requirements force our compliance. What we know today is that our Kimberly model is certified for all 50 states and 13 provinces of Canada. I can tell you that Catalyst equipped stoves have been banned in much of Alaska due to the short life cycle in that environment, the Air Quality agencies there prefer non catalytic units as replacement of the cat is expensive and rarely gets done.
Our Katydid stove is also non cat and has recently been awarded (by the EPA burn wise program) as one of the few non cat stoves meeting the 2020 clean air standards today at 1.9 grams of particulate emissions per hour. By comparison before regulations in the late 80's stoves were pumping out 80+ grams per hour. Our Kimberly model runs at 3.2 GPH.
Lastly there have been some states, counties or "air standard" activity that supersedes the EPA standards. This is something that should be fought tooth and nail in my opinion, many states are battling it out with groups who have little understanding of the capability of new stoves, nor the comparison to burning gas as an example. Just one fracking well fire s far worse on the environment than all the wood burning stoves combined. All we need do to fuel a wood stove is harvest a tree. Compared to burning gas there is nothing cleaner in the big picture.
Just my thoughts and what I know from the EPA
Roger Lehet
inventor/CEO
I got the info from a letter sent to me by our local fire dept on Tuesday.Now I cannot even burn brush,limbs or trees they want me to haul it off to a place that charges 10 bucks a pickup load to chip it.None of the crap makes sense to me, like our place in Idaho dead trees on the ground but you need to buy a permit so you can cut down live trees to burn in your stove when ever they allow it. BS I am getting to old for all the rules and regulations imposed on people today
Yes sir....we are all getting tired of the "Nanny State". It would be interesting to know if this was a burn ban due to dry weather conditions or an air pollution agency overstepping their boundaries. Again EPA is a national thing and not often on a state or county level. This is the sort of ur eroding rights that in my mind must be stopped......the "government" should be working for us and not the other way around.
God Bless America
Sounds like a pretty good deal to me Cliff. Just take all of that dead wood to the chipper mill in your dump truck and come back with a truck full of wood chips. Then buy a Kimberly stove to heat your bus, house, and garage with. Or buy yourself a used wood chipper for about $1,500 and chip up your own fire chips. It should pay for itself in no time.
Just be sure to wear your hardhat so this doesn't happen to you.
The other thing you will need is a good chainsaw. I don't know much about using a chainsaw but I can see right off the bat that this guy is not wearing the proper safety equipment. Seems like he is missing his hard hat and gloves.
LOL I don't need a chipper Gary we have a Mighty Mac that we have had for years not one of my favorite toys I can tell you for sure
Wow.....I can't imagine trying to start a chain saw with the business end stuck tween my legs, what a buffoon.
I have no words for that photo....no words at all.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I have one ... soprano!
Quote from: Scott Bennett on February 10, 2016, 04:13:10 PMI have no words for that photo....no words at all.
I would guess it's a joke photo. I would also guess the guy is an idiot, but not THAT BIG of an idiot.
I see local paper articles every fall about local municipalities trying to get ordenances or laws passed banning wood stoves. This is the NE Pa NewYork and CT area.
DMoeDave,
I find it highly frustrating that we manufacturers have to spend tens of thousands of dollars to abide by gubmint regulations just to have a group of highly uneducated and emotionally charged "experts at everything" go and try on a regional level to ban things they simply do not understand. This is a serious issue in the country and needs to be fought at every level. Have you noticed your rights being taken step by step until there is nothing left?? I am sure that in one way or another we are all jailable just on the tax code alone.
The reality is that just one fracking well fire or pipeline explosion is far worse on the environment that all of the wood stoves in the country burning all at once....probably even burning wet wood and puking up smoke. I quite often receive hate mail as an inventor/manufacturer from what I like to refer to as "rabid greenies" who will sue the EPA in order to choke out manufacturing jobs even though doing this will not serve the environment. Those jobs then are sent over seas where environmental and labor fairness have little meaning.
It is my contention that poor people (which I have had a taste of, still struggle daily to make ends sorta meet) are by design hard on the environment. You see poor folks struggling to make a car payment and have insurance are far less likely to do routine maintenance like tune ups. If a poor person owns a home they are not likely to improve the insulation value, these things are hard on the environment. The answer lies on not creating more people struggling just to feed their families.
While I agree that in days past old junker wood burners were capable of belching out well above 80 grams of carcinogenic particulate emission (imagine dumping asbestos dust into the fresh air intake for a school, right) today's stoves can not emit more than 4.5 grams. Our stoves run at 3.2 for Kimberly and 1.9 for Katydid. Waht this means is that you RARELY see visible smoke. Visible smoke equals wasted trees.
I'll dare to wager that the same (sorry) morons looking to ban wood stoves also use airplanes to travel from protest to protest and all of them drive cars, the hypocrisy here is unbelievable. The domestic aviation industry consumes 261 million gallons of jet fuel per day and no amount of wood burning could ever compare to the big picture of drilling, spilling, transporting, distillation and consumption.
My advice to those of you who understand this issue and do not wish to see your right to heat your home CLEANLY with wood (along with your other rights and your jobs) get really angry and do something about it. Any moron that wants to be a squeaky (uneducated) wheel can accomplish allot when others are apathetic toward their agenda. America needs to temper this and make moves that are healthy in the big picture
Non of it makes sense,we had a power plant here they said was polluting 3 years ago they tore it down and sold it to some Mexican out fit now our power has bill doubled.
They moved the power plant just south across the border and now are selling us electricity. Here is what pisses you the wind blows from the south here in the summer time all summer long you go out some morning now and see the ash on your car hood that never happen when the plant was located here.
You ask one of the nut cases here in charge all they can come up with is "we have no control over pollution from Mexico" if they have no control they should not have sold them a plant they said polluted here and allowed it to be set up on the border you would think. You have crazy people running the EPA and air quality boards in each state now
there are way to many dumb laws now ....
I built a new hi tech house and decided to PUSH THE EASY BUTTON and not use wood heat , well that lasted 3 years then I installed a very small hi efficient wood stove and I could not be happier . we missed the wood heat and the fact that if the power or the propane goes out we can still have heat and cook and boil water with out the generator running
dave
While I would not use wood heat in a motor home - too much inertia to the thermal mass, difficulties in containing the thermal mass (coals) if in a collision - or during normal driving. ;D
However, we do enjoy our Vermont Castings Encore non catalytic wood stove. (2.7 grams)
My neighbors have asked why I don't use it - and it is burning away. All are surprised that it doesn't smoke.
Well, I can make it smoke, but I prefer to burn it clean - less creosote buildup that way.
However, when lots of people damper down their wood stoves & smoke up the neighborhood - - - it is easy to see where people can come to the wrong conclusion.
The funny thing is that burning wood releases the same energy and gasses as if left to rot - just burning is lots faster.
Lots of good points here, I'd like to answer Kyle.....we have folks who drive their motor home up in Alaska while burning their Kimberly, and at speeds of up to 70 MPH. Why the heck would one do this I asked?? The answer is that at 40 plus below the defroster is not strong enough to keep your breath from freezing on the wind shield.....I remember weather that cold from growing up off of lake Erie. Really it is quite safe. I am glad to hear that you understand how clean wood burning can be.....the Vermont Castings non catalytic equipment does a good job of burning smokelessly......this is what we need. The bit about rotting wood is an important one I have commented on before. Rotting wood creates methane gas which is a known ozone depletion issue where as that wood burned releases carbon dioxide which trees breathe in and then they exhale oxygen.
Another thing that just kills me (speaking of power plants , a good example of STUPID) is the move to ban coal fired plants and upgrade them to gas.....supported by the ultra green folks and of course the folks who sell gas, and paid for by the consumer. What happened is the coal we used to use is now sold to the highest bidder in China where it is burned at 14 to 18% efficiency. The smog in turn comes right back to America and the rich get richer through being totally dishonest and the ultra greenies back them. This is why we need to really take time to study the long term effects of major decision making. Either way I suggest that burning wood is a natural and clean (as well as safe) way to heat your small home on wheels
I have 3 gas, 4 electric, and 3 engine heaters - If it is too cold for those to keep up, I need to be somewhere else where I won't need them all. ;D
I'm not saying wood heat isn't safe in a moving vehicle. I am saying that with my experience & understanding, I am more comfortable with other methods for heat.
The great thing about this hobby is the freedom to do as you like - and the information available to help decide.
of course Kyle, wood heat is not for everybody, no argument there. We are just here to help those who see the benefit of what is a lifestyle.
Roger,
Last night on 60 Minutes, there was a segment on ISIS potentially attacking the U.S. They said it is "highly likely" ISIS will try to attack the U.S. sometime this year. He said there is a potential for them to take down our internet, electrical grid, trains, highways and even shut down our oil pipelines which transport oil and gas across the U.S.
If this happens, will Kimberly and Katydid still heat our buses if we can't get to fuel or if fuel can't get to us? I am not a Doomsday Prepper, but I do wonder what I will do if/when something does happen beyond our control living so close to a large city. I keep my bus fueled up at all times and stocked with the basics; food, beer and Jack Daniels, so I know I can at least get out of Dodge and survive for a while if everything all of a sudden goes to hell in a handbasket.
I have a Log Cabin bus (which is for sale now) which can be seen at http://www.BusConversions.com/Gary/GHMC9.pdf (http://www.busconversions.com/Gary/GHMC9.pdf) but I figure in a disaster, I can start tearing my bus apart from the inside out and heat my bus for a few months until things calm down.
I also plan to go out and buy a few chickens and a pig this week so I will also have fresh food on hand. Oh, one more thing, do you have a rotisserie attachment for your stoves available yet as I didn't see one listed on your website www.unforgettablefirellc.com (http://www.unforgettablefirellc.com). But this could possibly save my bacon (no pun intended).
Where I live heat is not the problem ::)
Roger,
Do you have your Air Conditioner attachment prototype finished and ready for production yet? Cliff may need one for his bus as he is a Southerner. I figure he can set up Kimberly in his bus along with your Air Conditioner attachment next too it to keep his bus cool. You have every other possible attachment, so I figure it is only a matter of time before you have an A/C attachment as well.
Sure would be nice for folks to be able to cool off their bus using wood, generate electricity to charge their house batteries, cook a loaf of bread in your Dutch Oven, and fry bacon and eggs and take a hot shower all at the same time.
Just thinkin' out loud.
Gary
Roger, I agree all the way.Every day we get bombarded with political ads/infomercials of how great King
Coumo is and how he is bringing jobs back to NYstate. Bull! They give 10 year tax breaks and then they take off to less restrictive states or countries anyway. They just gave a tax break to a self storage company!!! How many jobs is that?
We have a small farm in Pa about 4 hours out of NY and things seem so much more realistic there but changes are coming. A lot of the homes ours included still burn wood and coal and now the big push to outlaw the coal plants will of course trickle on down our backs. Local laws are being passed outlawing the wood burning boilers. Hell we could go on and on forever. Clifford how about Mexico buying our worthless" diesel trains that are still running strong. When I was a kid to this day older quality American built const equip and trucks were and are being exported.
I know folks that wont run into Ca because of the laws. NY is right behind. They cant even enforce old but pass new every time something BAD happens. The nanny "you don't need a hunting rifle" cry is rampant in southern NY LongIsland area and now they want to ban bow hunting here as well. But over 300 deer strikeson Long Island alone! their soulotion is too erect signs with the # of deer killed in that location. We don't have and cant get a friggin rest area on Long Island for petes sake! Its a no pee zone lol. oh boy rant over for now. Jeez sorry its cold here and I haven't had much sleep
LOL I see where Prevost got the tax breaks in NY and now are hauling @$# out cost jobs
Well you guys are gonna love this one! I fly one of those there aero planes you were talking about. The other day I flew one person, yes one person. I won't mention her name. Well first a truck showed up with her luggage, an hour later she showed up in a Tesla with a driver. We then proceeded to fly to NY. Did I mention one person! After 4.5 hours at 500+ MPH, the flight attendant came to cockpit with a quistion from our passenger, she needed to know how much fuel we had burned so she could make a donation to cover her carbon foot print!!
You know what they say, you just can't fix stupid!
Quote from: Gary Hatt - Publisher BCM on February 15, 2016, 04:43:19 AM
Roger,
Last night on 60 Minutes, there was a segment on ISIS potentially attacking the U.S. They said it is "highly likely" ISIS will try to attack the U.S. sometime this year. He said there is a potential for them to take down our internet, electrical grid, trains, highways and even shut down our oil pipelines which transport oil and gas across the U.S.
If this happens, will Kimberly and Katydid still heat our buses if we can't get to fuel or if fuel can't get to us? I am not a Doomsday Prepper, but I do wonder what I will do if/when something does happen beyond our control living so close to a large city. I keep my bus fueled up at all times and stocked with the basics; food, beer and Jack Daniels, so I know I can at least get out of Dodge and survive for a while if everything all of a sudden goes to hell in a handbasket.
I have a Log Cabin bus (which is for sale now) which can be seen at http://www.BusConversions.com/Gary/GHMC9.pdf (http://www.busconversions.com/Gary/GHMC9.pdf) but I figure in a disaster, I can start tearing my bus apart from the inside out and heat my bus for a few months until things calm down.
I also plan to go out and buy a few chickens and a pig this week so I will also have fresh food on hand. Oh, one more thing, do you have a rotisserie attachment for your stoves available yet as I didn't see one listed on your website www.unforgettablefirellc.com (http://www.unforgettablefirellc.com). But this could possibly save my bacon (no pun intended).
Well Gary......sadly it seems possible that this could be in our future, just maybe that's the reason My family ended up living on a boat eating at the food bank and no idea where to turn. Everything I design has this in mind hoping that our customers never actually need it.....but can use it. As long as you have fairly dry fuel, food and water you can cook, bake and boil allot of water. Coming this year we have thermo electric generators that produce hot running water and 12 volt power. We know how to keep your family warm and fed under some pretty extreme conditions and I just thank GOD for the opportunity to be of service. As for new goodies down the road, I think you have some ideas as to what we may be cooking up.....and possibly cooling down.
Roger