In the market for about a 10K generator and wondering what others have. I will most likely get an Onan diesel but wondering if I need a fully enclosed model or if one without the enclosure would still be fairly quiet. I'm not sure if I'll mount it in the mesh AC bay on the drivers side on my MC 9 or if I can get a smaller one with no enclosure and possibly modify the front tire bay to accept it.
Bruce
Quote from: PRZNBUS on January 25, 2016, 03:01:06 AMIn the market for about a 10K generator and wondering what others have. I will most likely get an Onan diesel but wondering if I need a fully enclosed model or if one without the enclosure would still be fairly quiet. I'm not sure if I'll mount it in the mesh AC bay on the drivers side on my MC 9 or if I can get a smaller one with no enclosure and possibly modify the front tire bay to accept it.
Bruce
I have an Onan 10K "Quiet Diesel", fully enclosed. I don't have an AC bay so I had to build a bay next to the stairs going upstairs on my bus. It's good but not as quiet as I'd like. I can't imagine living with a non-enclosed model.
Love my power-tech in its home build-in box. Quite always starts has never gave any trouble in over 12 years.
uncle ned
HUGGY BEAR
hi Bruce, I just put a writer in my air conditioning there with a mesh door, quieter is better, lvmci...
I have a Powertech 10kw bought without enclosure and remote radiator. With my transit, there were limited spaces to mount it. I created a space next to the driver's seat like a front engine. The generator was mounted through the front door with a engine hoist. It is also serviced through the top door inside. I created the enclosure with 3/4" plywood, 1/4" steel plate for the base and insulated with 1" leaded insulation. You can't actually hear the generator, but do hear it through the vibration-so if you have the room, air bag mounts are good (that I wish I had). The remote radiator (since the generator compartment is too small) is mounted under the driver's seat with a squirrel cage blower sucking the air through exiting out the side of the bus belt driven with a 1/2hp fully enclosed fan cooled ball bearing 2spd motor. High speed during the day, low speed at night for quiet operation. I have an 8" inline bathroom ventilator to push air through the gen compartment.
Onan's enclosed 10kw is made for one reason-it is a snap for manufacturers to initially install. It is not very easy to service and it isn't that quiet. Example-I was parked across from a S&S with the 10kw Onan "Quiet" Diesel running. As I walked towards my bus, I couldn't hear my generator running till I was within 10ft-then started to hear it. Dick Wright even commented how quiet it was. Highly recommend you get an open generator and make your own enclosure. Remember-there is no such thing as a too quiet generator. Good Luck, TomC
Hey Bruce great post! very interested your findings on this and will chime little as I need some more input and tips from others in my own fabricating, just stoked to listen.
I do need to build an generator enclosure or whatever the group can call it, at times ive had the pc on all day looking thru search's it seems and still I'm asking or listening really.
Tom is that leaded foil style and can you explain a bit more, sounds super quiet do you have carpet to covering also. thanks
Glued! here ( and where's the big thumbs up amogee )
Thanks
Floyd
Not sure they still make the 1" foil covered foam insulation with lead sheet in the middle since everyone's so paranoid about lead these days. But there are good sound insulators available. Good Luck, TomC
Another option is check into the EPS line of generator,they are advertiser here it's a good unit and the enclosures are super quite compared to Onan and Powertech I have a EPS generator and it's quite.
You can still buy lead sheets and sandwich it between 2 pcs of plywood,another option is to use lead filled dry rock (sheet rock) like hospitals and quite rooms use but it needs to be covered to prevent damage I know of a couple of people using it and theirs is over 20 years old with no problems.My lead egg crate foam was a good material but it started to crumple and flake in about 10 years.You will find that 75% of the noise will come from the exhaust and air intake and that is a easy fix.
The super quite generators all have a Isuzu or Cat engine with a turbo never saw a small Kubota powered generator with a turbo they probably have one though
You could contact Connel. He may still have a new 10K genset for sale.
papaseagle@gmail.com
I can't take the credit for it but our bus has an interesting generator installation, it is a 10.5KW Atomic, I think it is a marine model, it has a water cooled exhaust, the conversion company made an enclosure out of 3/4" plywood, lined with lead lined foam. There is a large squirrel cage blower pulling air through the enclosure down a chase from the roof where the exhaust is routed, it blows out under the bus. The whole exhaust chase up through the bus is lined with lead lined foam. I think the water cooled exhaust is quieter and lowers the exhaust pipe temperature, I have measured it at about 120 degrees where it goes up through the bus. The whole thing is on a slide so servicing is pretty good. I've had to replace all the wiring and breaker panel and it was pretty easy. This setup is very quiet, as someone said, the generator can't be too quiet! the PO spent a lot of time on this and it paid off. I can share some pictures if there is any interest.
I had a 12.5 Universal marine generator made in WI with the water cooled manifold it was quite too.Back to the Onan in a enclosed housing fwiw if you ever need to change a fan belt on 1 there will be nasty words spoken
I appreciate the input. The generators without the enclosure seem quite a bit cheaper and I could make the area quiet I guess. I like the remote radiator idea. How far could the run be for a radiator without putting undue stress on a water pump?
Bruce
Another question, I like the variable speed demand type generators. I know Onan makes them but what about other companies?
Bruce
Quiet generators make friends, noisey ones make you an outcast and a target.
Silent running attracts no attention in rest areas, parking lots, friends' driveways, all the places that pissing peeps off, or attracting attention means being asked to leave...
In the design, strongly consider the risk of fire and how to detect/defend against that danger in the enclosure.
Happy coaching!
Buswarrior
I think one of the 3 cyl diesels is the real ticket. I have an older gen but it seems the preffered kw size for most is the size your asking and now many are available in 3 cylinder.
Its possible Kubota has a turbo 3cyl but not sure on a gen head, I agree a quick check with regular busnut advertiser sites.
Looking around for lead covered sheet goods and found a few, but at this time did not contact the industrial type companies for a possible close supplier.
It might be the price might scare me :o
I'm committed to the silence but hey, a step at a time.
And for sure I'm interested in seeing any pics or links to this topic you all can gen up on the subject or direct a feller.
I had the other day started in projects from the last page coming back up but getting side tracked just enjoying the ability to look through many of the projects in general, fwiw it was cool
Thanks, and were rollin now!
In the short term, I opted for twin Honda 3000is gens. They are super quiet. 49db quiet. I only use both when I need both and really they are quiet fuel sippers. Not what you're looking for I know, but just another data point for anyone looking. Paralleled together they make just under 6000 watts which is just about what we need. (https://busconversionmagazine.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimages.tapatalk-cdn.com%2F16%2F01%2F25%2F00c20fabfd77aa4e200e8f038bca5841.jpg&hash=8c9b3e53fe9a66c2d1b654bcc405022d7099d6cc)(https://busconversionmagazine.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimages.tapatalk-cdn.com%2F16%2F01%2F25%2F86a70f4ce84a78b3be03e063e49e237e.jpg&hash=77dcb8fb894d9f106a1c476e2e6512498ff6d35b)
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Hello, I am also in the process of building a quiet box and installing exhaust. I would be interested in comments and pictures on permanent exhaust through the roof.
Thanks, Bandsaw
Quote from: Emcemv on January 25, 2016, 06:24:56 AM
I can't take the credit for it but our bus has an interesting generator installation, it is a 10.5KW Atomic, I think it is a marine model, it has a water cooled exhaust, the conversion company made an enclosure out of 3/4" plywood, lined with lead lined foam. There is a large squirrel cage blower pulling air through the enclosure down a chase from the roof where the exhaust is routed, it blows out under the bus. The whole exhaust chase up through the bus is lined with lead lined foam. I think the water cooled exhaust is quieter and lowers the exhaust pipe temperature, I have measured it at about 120 degrees where it goes up through the bus. The whole thing is on a slide so servicing is pretty good. I've had to replace all the wiring and breaker panel and it was pretty easy. This setup is very quiet, as someone said, the generator can't be too quiet! the PO spent a lot of time on this and it paid off. I can share some pictures if there is any interest.
Pictures would be great, I'd like to see how your setup looks.
Bruce
Very hard to create a through roof exhaust for the generator. You have to both loose some interior space and insulate it properly-let alone the water proofing. From experience, just have the exhaust go out the driver's side then build an up exhaust to use just when you're parked. Good Luck,, TomC
Good point, probably what I'll do but I like seeing what other people have done too.
Bruce
We are just finishing up the two week Quartzsite rally and headed home tomorrow. I just read this thread and can't believe no one has suggested a Wrico genset. Check out Dick Wright's website at http://www.wricointernational.com/. (http://www.wricointernational.com/.) He has been selling these units since Bus Conversion Magazine started and has been a loyal sponsor of our magazine and has sold generators to the bus nut community with rave reviews for years. Give him a chance and check out his website. Dick is a great guy and will support you 100% before, during and after the installation. Besides Dick is a bus nut just like us and probably has more experience installing a generator in a bus than most genset companies out there. You can call Dick at (541) 744-4333 and tell him Gary sent you.
Engine Power Systems is also one of our advertisers. Check out their website at http://www.enginepowersource.com/ (http://www.enginepowersource.com/) and call them at (800) 374-7522 and tell them Gary sent you.
I have never heard any complaints about either company so call both of them and see what they have to offer.
Gary my feelings :( you missed #14, busnut advertisers, and I just followed up #7with eps mention.
looks like you skipped coffee this morning
Hey have a good day :)
Floyd
Dick,builds a good generator very simple using off the shelf parts and can supply you with a Perkins (Cat) or Kubota engine.He doesn't sell one in a enclosed housing I think is the reason no 1 mention him.He does sell the materials to build your own housing though.Onan does build a good generator and their nation wide service @ Cummins is a hard act to follow for the smaller guys there is no searching around for a repair shop with the Onan. lol I believe Dick has a Kohler in his new bus he has taken some ribbing over the years with the generators in his store bought Prevosts
Yes, you are right. I only had time to skim thru the thread quickly during my morning coffee before I had time to finish it all. After signing up close to 10,000 new subscribers and 200 new advertisers at the Quartzsite show this week, I am still just "waking up". In fact I may still be a bit sleepy as I may have exaggerated the numbers a bit :) but we did very well for the past two weeks in Quartzsite and in Indio the week before. Be sure to look for new advertisers with very interesting and helpful bus conversion products starting in the March issue. If you are not a current subscriber, or your subscription has lapsed, be sure to renew now so you can see all of the new products and reviews starting with the next issue. Remember it is subscriptions to our magazine and support of our wonderful advertisers that support this very useful website you are reading now. So sign up or renew today at www.busconversions.com (http://www.busconversions.com) and choose the BCM Store tab.
Here is my Onan 10k running after removing it and putting it back in. As it is.....without any dampening material, its very quiet. I still will add something later to the box. This at least gives you an idea of the Onan's sound. https://goo.gl/photos/gnGc6QtA2vRveggG7
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Here are some pictures of mine. This shows the new main breaker panel I installed when I re-did all the wiring. I don't have a good picture of how the exhaust goes up thru the bus and out the roof, they basically used something like a 4"x12" HVAC metal duct straight up thru the interior and out the roof. There is a raised cover so that the blower sucks air down thru this duct and exhaust it under the bus. The generator engine exhaust is routed up through this duct at comes out on the roof. The generator is a 3cyl Atomic Diesel running at 1800 RPM. These pictures were taken while I was replacing all the coolant hoses so some hoses are out of place in these pictures. You can see the large water cooled exhaust manifold where the radiator cap is. This all uses a remote radiator and is also plumbed into the bus engine cooling system so the generator heats the bus engine in the cold weather. There is a large squirrel cage blower mounted right behind the breaker panel that sucks air down the duct from the roof and out the floor of the bay. There is another smaller blower shown on top of the generator in the picture that is used to force cooling air into the generator head. Someone put alot of work into this setup and it runs great and is really quiet!
Brett that's sharp lookin there, and some storage to boot. Do you have a sound measure on your phone, I don't but did ask my youngest and their phone does so I'm going to get some figures someday after install.
Bruce cool setup sitting like that, I seen one in an Eagle I believe it sure makes use of room. I was curious on the door material and the enclosure is that 3/4 what do you have going there. I did some measures but mine has the switch box sitting to high and seems it would hit the tunnel. but sure considered it.
Thanks for posting up the photos you all
Floyd
Yes the 10kw "quiet" Onan is quiet, but a lot of noise coming from the cooling fan. That was the main noise that cancelled out my generator sound till I was 10ft from my bus. Dick Wright built me a custom 12kw 120v only genset using a new model of 3 cylinder Kubota. The entire genset is only 36" long. On my genset, I requested two types of controls. One is electronic to tie into the auto-start and automatic transfer switch. The other controls are old fashion mechanical controls that will get the unit running with a manual switch, and could bypass the auto switching to still have electricity. I will have a totally enclosed box with an 8" inline ventilator to push air (250cfm) through the box for cooling and an up stack between the cab and back box. I anticipate it to be extremely quiet. Good Luck, TomC
Sounds pretty cool Tom, and interesting in all the control stuff with how I might implement some features.
The controls from manual bypass to say a magnum or whoever in auto mode are some things I been glancing over for awhile.
A basic I see is different engine senders and switches, these use their ground circuitry sometimes. So brands of controllers request for different signal types also most times, and require additional type monitors or just what again I glanced over.
many good things to check out and thanks
I rang a drywall guy and left a message on needing information with some sheet goods.
This was after I e-mailed a big company manufacturing this and with there recommendation to try a local supplier as freight with the healthcare x-ray type lead barrier sheetrock and lead barrier plywood could be way up in cost. I'm sure, now keeping a ear for the phone this week.
Good day
Floyd
Our enclosure is made of 3/4" ply covered with grey Formica laminate to give it a finished look. I think it was done by Magic Carpet Coaches, they were bought out by Marathon. Inside of the enclosure is covered mostly with some sheet metal and the. 1" lead lined foam.
www.soundown.com (http://www.soundown.com) carries sound deading materials and other devices for reducing vibrations. Some marine supplies also carry stuff for sound proofing engine compartments.
Thanks for the link. I did find some lead lined foam at a marine supply place but it's kinda pricy but looks like a good option.
Bruce
Quote from: brmax on January 26, 2016, 04:44:35 PM
Brett that's sharp lookin there, and some storage to boot. Do you have a sound measure on your phone, I don't but did ask my youngest and their phone does so I'm going to get some figures someday after install.
Bruce cool setup sitting like that, I seen one in an Eagle I believe it sure makes use of room. I was curious on the door material and the enclosure is that 3/4 what do you have going there. I did some measures but mine has the switch box sitting to high and seems it would hit the tunnel. but sure considered it.
Thanks for posting up the photos you all
Floyd
I'll have to use one of those apps on my smartphone.......which I can do but it's put away for the winter. I'm in MN