Hello everyone. I have questions about batteries in my 102C3 with a Cummins N14. Still using the old Ds. Will be putting group 31's in. I do not use my bus in the winter. Do I need 2 or 3? Since I will build a new cables do you think I should use stud mount or post? Thanks ahead of time I appreciate everyone helping.
Quote from: Flight102C3 on January 09, 2016, 01:36:39 PM
Hello everyone. I have questions about batteries in my 102C3 with a Cummins N14. Still using the old Ds. Will be putting group 31's in. I do not use my bus in the winter. Do I need 2 or 3? Since I will build a new cables do you think I should use stud mount or post? Thanks ahead of time I appreciate everyone helping.
Do you have a 12V or 24V start system? With the right terminal on the cables, stud mount seems good but I'd like to hear from other people on that.
It is a 12 V system. I rewired the whole bus to 12 V.
I would go with 3 on a 12v system JMO
Dunno if this helps any but my old Crown Supercoach had the old Small Cam 855 non turbo Cummins. 12VDC starter. Two (2) 8D batts. It would crank slow but start on one battery down to about +45F. I had one bad battery and removed the cables until I got around to replacing it. Seemed to work OK.
Quote from: luvrbus on January 09, 2016, 02:44:41 PMI would go with 3 on a 12v system JMO
That's why I asked. Yeah, you have to have the amps with a 12V system to make the watts you need for the load.
And if you're making new battery cables anyway, why not also make a switchable connection between the house batteries and the starter to help in cold weather? I went from two 8Ds to two Group 31s, but I can also switch either or both of my house battery banks to the starter if it needs some more oomph in cold weather. I use the Blue Sea 9002 and 9001 switches, and 4/0 cable throughout.
John
He needs the extra amps 12v starters draw twice the amps of the 24v starters plus he is starting a 14L engine,I wouldn't chance killing the ECM for a extra 100 dollar battery.My 60 series a 24v system will struggle with 2- G31 starting so I use 4-G31 JMO
The engine is a Cummins N14 STC . It has no ECM . I dry camp 1deep cycle battery. Thanks
Freightliner uses 2-31 batteries on the 6.7 and 8.9 liter engine. When going to an engine larger they use 3-31 batteries even up to 16 liter engine. Only time they use 4 is in the sleeper trucks, and that's just to be able to power the lights, TV, etc at night. I use 2-31 batteries on my 8V-71, but also have a jumper relay to connect the 2-8D deep cycle just in case-and to charge the deep cycle with the big engine alternator. Good Luck, TomC
And I can tell you from experience that 2 batteries in my 2015 kenworth service truck with the 8.9 is not enough in the winter time. My old international had three batteries and that was perfect. With only 2 we have had problems in two different Kenworth's. These should have three!
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I put 2 31's in my MC8 and in cold weather they give out fast. never was a problem because it always lit right off, but after the engine rebuild it was necessary to prime the fuel system and they ground down to nothing in a matter of seconds. when I do get my bus back from the shop it will be getting 2 new 8D batteries straight away.
All of my Freightliner Cascadias are running 3-group 31's. We have tried using 2 but in the cold up here, 2 does not cut it. We are also running DD15 515 HP units and they need juice, lots of juice.
Ryan.
Ahhhh...I remember the days of having a compression release.
Quote from: opus on January 12, 2016, 05:15:44 AM
Ahhhh...I remember the days of having a compression release.
...and four 6 volt batteries with a series/parallel switch. I would spin the engine (262 hp) until the oil pressure gauge twitched and release the compression release and it was running with full oil pressure.
I cant believe we forfeited compression releases and direct fuel shut off cables for electronic gizmos.
2, 31's if they get down because of cold the Ginny will start and pull them back up in about 5 minutes.
Dave
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Ya I used to operate a 1953 Caterpillar D4 trackloader and you would start the pup engine first (gas) with the diesels decompression lever open. Let the little guy warm up then engage to the big diesel. Let that spin over for a few minutes lubing every thing up and circulating the shared coolant. Then hit the decomression lever and she would roar to life no matter what the temp was or how far from civilization you where. Definately not a get in and go scenario, but a good excuse to go for breakfast while you "started" your machine. The pup even had a back up pull start cord for those bad starter/battery days in the bush.
Ryan.
We had those on D8's and graders. You always made sure the pony motor was in tip top shape. Fire it up [after you put on ear protection :) ] Engage the big engine with fuel off, go have breakfast, come back and kick it to life.
Those pony motors sure are expensive to repair these days!
Ear muffs were definatly a requirement. We actually tossed a rod on the last pony we had and replaced it with a 15 hp snowblower motor from Princess Auto ($175 as opposed to $3000 for a rebuild). Lost the coolant circulation but was easier to start and cheaper to maintain than the old boxer pup. Finally sold it in 2008 after a very long service life with the last 3 years spent clearing snow on country driveways.
We went a little off topic there but hey, memories are fun.
Ryan.
We just always replaced those on the D6 9U with the 2 horizontal cylinders starting engine with a 24v starter, spin it with the compression released and they fired right up.The old D7 and D8 with vertical piston starting engine was a different story. I hated those things with the crank going through the hood standing on the tracks the crank would smack you good sometimes when they would kick back
I have seen more than a few guys come off an old d8 cursing up and down. The d4 7u I was running was to old to have the starter conversion. The normal spot on the tranny where you could take off the cover plate and bolt in the starter was not even machined and had a casting rib running through it. You could convert the 54 and ups, but not a 53 or earlier. Would have if we could have.
Ryan.
I have a '47 D4 Cat that I use on the property to clear snow and push dirt in the summer. The pup motor will start it at any temperature, but it is me that doesn't want to go out there when it is too cold...
JC
I replaced my 2 8d's with 2 31's not because they are better but just more manageable. It works fine for me on an 8v71 since we really are never in very cold weather. If it is cold, we use a block heater anyway. If you have the space, go for the three batteries. There will never come a time when you feel that you have too much power there.
I use 4 31's with studs with my 60 series. trouble free just replaced them last week because I was getting scared they would leave me somewhere. they were 10 years and 3 months old and were still working great. try to get that out of an 8d
Quote from: c-coop on January 13, 2016, 11:07:24 AM
I use 4 31's with studs with my 60 series. trouble free just replaced them last week because I was getting scared they would leave me somewhere. they were 10 years and 3 months old and were still working great. try to get that out of an 8d
That sounds like your charging voltages are perfect, along with friendly charge/discharge rates.
The wrong charging voltage will send any battery to a premature death.
Abusive use doesn't do them any favors either.
Mechanically speaking, The construction of the 8D is the most durable.
However, at half the weight of an 8D, group 31's sure are lots easier to move around.
C-Coop, 4 sounds like a good deal! What brand do you use? I need 4' of cable what size would you recommend? Battery's are 3' from starter. Thanks for now.
What I'm planning on doing is setting mine up with 2 31's and have a connecting switch to help start off of my house batteries if the 2 31's aren't enough when it's cold. Just a thought,
Eric
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Quote from: Flight102C3 on January 14, 2016, 10:54:10 AM
C-Coop, 4 sounds like a good deal! What brand do you use? I need 4' of cable what size would you recommend? Battery's are 3' from starter. Thanks for now.
Just use 4/0 welding cable throughout, and tinned lugs if possible (they corrode less than plain lugs when near batteries' acid fumes). Someone on the NAWS forum suggests turning the batteries' vent caps so they point away from the lugs, but maybe that's taking things too far! And crimp them properly, i.e smashing it in a vice or using those cheap hammer crimpers won't work too well for high-current loads. 4/0 is only about $4 a foot on eBay, and NAWS has the lowest prices on tinned lugs.
John
When I was a teenager we had an Austin Western 99H grader on the farm. Had an International Harvester UD14 diesel that you started on gas then switched to diesel. They had a 3rd valve in the head that opened to another chamber / lowered compression and had the spark plug in it. Engine had a Wico magneto on it along with the injection pump. The carburetor throttle was set at a fixed RPM for warm up - it only had a choke. It had electrics on it but we never kept batteries in it. It had a hand crank about 2ft long. I used to start it with the crank, let it warm up a few minutes then slam the changeover lever in and open diesel throttle. Worked great. Course I was a lot younger then and thought it was neat. Think I would buy the batteries now. ;)
growing up, an old farmer near us had an International tractor with the same set up, neat as all heck.
Ryan.
growing up, an old farmer near us had an International tractor with the same set up, neat as all heck.
Ryan.
Sorry about the double post.
Ryan.