I just spent a week and a half in the bus in cold country. I had a bit of a problem with my Aquahot producing copious amounts of soot. It built up
literally 1/4" of soot around the inside of the entire exhaust pipe! I've never had this happen before, even at 10000 foot elevations. We were in
Denver and Pueblo, so not really that high.
I think soot is normally caused by not enough air for the amount of fuel. The air intake setting hasn't been changed on the Webasto head, so I'm
thinking it's probably time to change the fuel nozzle. I haven't done that in several years, but then again, I haven't really used the coach much when
running the aquahot burner was needed for many years.
Any other ideas?
I would change the nozzle 1st then check the voltage and rpm on the motor they soot like a coal burning train when the motor starts to get weak and looses rpm
Quote from: luvrbus on January 01, 2016, 04:39:22 AMI would change the nozzle 1st then check the voltage and rpm on the motor they soot like a coal burning train when the motor starts to get weak and looses rpm
What does the motor do, Clifford? Is that a fuel pump/supply motor? Thanks (I'm trying to learn about the things that they don't tell you in the books.)
I had this same miserable problem at Breckenridge ski area one year. We nearly froze trying to live off 4 electric heaters in 8 degrees. After several calls to Dick Wright and Sure Marine I tried several things. First I shortened my exhaust pipe from about 14' to about 3.5' in length. I cleaned out all the soot in the chamber and washed out the exhaust pipe. It was caked. I installed a new nozzle and fuel filter. Sure Marine suggested to open the air baffle at the intake of the burner just a bit in high altitude. Index the baffle before you change it so you can return it to the factory setting. I agree that Denver and Pueblo shouldn't warrant a change of the air intake.
Apparently all this has served me well. I've used it in Cloudcroft (8K feet) and it hasn't failed since. I believe that it should be cleaned annually of any soot. I'm two years into a new nozzle, so not sure how long you can go without replacement. I think this will be the 3rd winter (2016) with the nozzle and I haven't been out to cold country yet. We're going out in January, so I'll probably know then.
These heaters are the best when they work, but I agree that they need lots of preventative maintenance to work in top shape.
David
Nozzle should be changed yearly. Be careful, you arent getting a good spray. I burnt a Webasto up from that, many moons ago. I also learned that they dont run nearly as good with 12v as they do with 13v. Therefore, I havent run mine off battery power since.
If you have an Aqua-Hot, Webasto or Hydro-Hot system and will be at the Quartzite rally, there will be a top notch mobile service technician there. He recommends annual service on your system. I have him service my Aqua-Hot system every year in Quartzite. Either stop by our booth in Quartzite or call Lloyd DeGerald Services directly when you get there at on his cell at 501-258-8426. He will be staying close to us at the rally and will be able to service any unit you have and is very fair. For information about other rallies he will be attending this year check out his schedule at www.lloyddegerald.com/locate-me-calendar (http://www.lloyddegerald.com/locate-me-calendar).
Craig, The next time you are in Colorado and on your way to Wyoming there is a young man named John Carrillo that lives in Longmont that works on hydronic heating systems of all kinds and is very good at what he does. He once changed the nossel twice to get my burner to burn the fuel completely. In the winter he is down south working the get togethers down there. He spends most of the spring summer and fall at home. His number is 970-518-3085. If you need palace to hold up for day or two so he can work on your system you are welcome to stay at the house. John has been to our place a few times to work on other peoples systems.
Wayne
Thanks, all, and especially Wayne for the offer.
Most of this is confirming my thoughts. I'm going to change out the nozzle this spring when it warms up again. I'll clean out all the soot in the pipe and see
what happens then.
The comment regarding the voltage is interesting, because my house batteries were exhibiting signs of weakness when we were camped
at Cabela's in Denver (they're only 11 years old!).
The Aquahot had pulled the voltage down to under 24 volts in just a few hours and I had to run the generator. Other than that short period,
either the generator was running or the bus was plugged into shore, and the inverter was charging with proper voltage.
I've run this unit for about 12 years with no problems ever, and that include elevations up to 10000 feet, except for a leaking o-ring on the fuel pump.
I'll start with the nozzle. If that doesn't help, I'll seek help from one of the numbers listed in the comments.
thanks again.
craig
Don't forget to pull the burner can out and clean it and the housing as well!
Dick
Quote from: dickegler on January 02, 2016, 04:42:30 AM
Don't forget to pull the burner can out and clean it and the housing as well!
Dick
Yes, I will do that.
I have to find a cable or something I can improvise a sort of rotor-rooter with to clean out the pipe. That soot really sticks to the walls. I thought the trip home
on all the rough roads would loosen some of it, but didn't seem to lose much that I can tell.
Quote from: Oonrahnjay on January 01, 2016, 04:43:08 AM
What does the motor do, Clifford? Is that a fuel pump/supply motor? Thanks (I'm trying to learn about the things that they don't tell you in the books.)
Bruce, the motor drives the combustion fan and a gear reduction on a shaft for the fuel pump drive they turn around 5000 rpm best I recall and when voltage is low or the motor starts to weaken they soot up pretty fast.fwiw that is 1 pricey little motor low voltage will destroy BTDT
Quote from: luvrbus on January 02, 2016, 06:49:22 AMBruce, the motor drives the combustion fan and a gear reduction on a shaft for the fuel pump drive they turn around 5000 rpm best I recall and when voltage is low or the motor starts to weaken they soot up pretty fast.fwiw that is 1 pricey little motor low voltage will destroy BTDT
Thanks, Clifford. That sounds like a lot of load -- no wonder they don't like low voltage. Is there also a circulation pump in a Webasto and Aqua-Hot to circulate the heated anti-freeze mixture (I'm assuming that people use anti-freeze in those circuits)? People talk about how much juice they pull when they're running -- i'm beginning to see why!
I appreciate the info. It's helpful.
Quote from: Oonrahnjay on January 02, 2016, 07:09:33 AM
Thanks, Clifford. That sounds like a lot of load -- no wonder they don't like low voltage. Is there also a circulation pump in a Webasto and Aqua-Hot to circulate the heated anti-freeze mixture (I'm assuming that people use anti-freeze in those circuits)? People talk about how much juice they pull when they're running -- i'm beginning to see why!
I appreciate the info. It's helpful.
Yes, there is a circulation pump on the tray of the Webasto.
Like Clifford said, if the voltage gets too low, your spray turns into droplets, which turn into a fireball, which can splash back and melt all the innards. Dont ask.....
And if it burns wrong, the safety sensors in the top will have to be replaced. More $$$ better spent on annual preventive maintenance.
I keep a little plastic box with a set of those and a nozzle, next year's replacements available for early deployment.
happy coaching!
buswarrior
I sent Lloyd DeGerald (my Aqua-Hot service guy) the thread and this is what he said.
Answer: Black smoke or soot is caused by incomplete combustion . Aqua Hot recommends exercising the diesel side of your unit monthly, every month.
Unit should be serviced yearly.
Not exercising your unit monthly can cause nozzle to fail.
Soot can also be caused by a grommet not seating correctly.
Soot can also be caused by motor not running @ 4500-5000 ROM's.
Improper air adjustment can cause black smoke-screw should be set in the middle.
White/Grey smoke is result of unburned fuel.
Recommendation; Start with annual service as first step.
He said you can feel free to call him if you have further questions. He can be reached at (501) 258-8426 and he does take calls on weekends. Click on his Banner Ad for his information and traveling schedule.
Craig,
3 possibilities come to mind. the first 2 have been mentioned.
1. Nozzle, recommended to change every year
2. Low battery voltage - slow motor- poor chamber evacuation
3. Slow motor - poor evacuation - change bearings. Yours may be gummed-up from lack of use. Webasto recommends changing every 4 years. A couple hour job that is well within your skills.
How does your Webasto sound?
Ed Roelle
Quote from: edroelle on January 06, 2016, 12:51:21 PM
Craig,
3 possibilities come to mind. the first 2 have been mentioned.
1. Nozzle, recommended to change every year
2. Low battery voltage - slow motor- poor chamber evacuation
3. Slow motor - poor evacuation - change bearings. Yours may be gummed-up from lack of use. Webasto recommends changing every 4 years. A couple hour job that is well within your skills.
How does your Webasto sound?
Ed Roelle
Hi Ed,
Thanks for the response. I was not aware of the bearing change. I'll have to look into that.
It sounds about the same, but honestly, it seems to be quieter than I remember. Maybe it has more to do with there being more ambient noise,
but where we were parked, there's really no noise around. I could not hear it from inside the bus, which has not been the normal case. I suppose
the other possibility is that my hearing, like my eyesight is suffering from too many trips around the sun. ::) However, it seems to be blowing out
the exhaust with about the same force as before, prior to ignition, as well as during the burn.
When it warms up, I'm going to change the nozzle and clean out all the soot in the chamber and pipe. I'll look at that bearing change, too, and
see what that entails. Not sure where to get parts for it, so any suggestion on suppliers would be good. I bought my last nozzles from Nick Bedame.
Will probably order a couple more from him.
I'm not accepting battery voltage just yet because other than one night, the bus was plugged in and the inverter was charging properly. The one
night at Cabela's, though, it did draw the batteries below 24 volts, and I ended up turning on the generator for the rest of the night. But it was sooting
pretty much the whole time, even when plugged in and when the generator was on. I will be checking all my wire connections to the unit, too, though,
just in case there's some corrosion that might be causing low voltage.
thanks
craig
HI Craig...try the navstore.com ...they are in Mpls. Have
ordered parts from them in the past, usually in stock.
David P. Benck
Somerset, WI
Craig,
The DBW2010 uses two 608-ZZ or 608-2RS bearings. Grade 1 ABEC bearings cost about $2 each. I was furious when I paid $50 for a pair, but I ordered them before I took mine apart so I didn't know what they were. You can buy ceramic ball 608 bearings, too. Don't get ripped off like I did. BTW, they are not hard to work on.
This is all very interesting and pertinent to my situation. I have not started my Webasto DBW 2010 since last year, and when I fired it up a month go, all it did was fire black smoke. The last time I used it it ran perfect without smoke. So I let it run for 10-15 minutes hoping it would clear up, but it didn't. Taking laser gun temps on the inlet and out side of the pump showed it was not warming up the coolant.
Jump to 3-4 weeks later-- I turned on the Webasto and got absolutely nothing-- the pump didn't start, nothing. It's been too cold to fiddle with it and do a voltage/sensor test. I have 479 hours on the unit. I also have new a nozzle to install. I have had yearly problems with the Webasto but most of them was air locks. Last year it was a bad flame sensor.
Back to work on the Webasto-- when it works it is great, but I am getting tired of these yearly repairs.
--Geoff