Bus starts and runs good, air bags come up, rocked back and forth a little when going from 1st to Reverse bus will not move either fwd or Reverse. The bus has been sitting for a number of years so I suspect the brake pads might be stuck to the drums. There is good air pressure. Does this sound right to you guys? I feel I'm so close I don't want to be defeated now. Ideas? Thanks, Phil
Get it up to max pressure, release brakes and then push on the brake pedal as hard as you can for at least 10 seconds. Try this a few times before putting in to gear.
You may hear them release...
Quote from: Sharkbait on December 05, 2015, 09:27:54 AMBus starts and runs good, air bags come up, rocked back and forth a little when going from 1st to Reverse bus will not move either fwd or Reverse. The bus has been sitting for a number of years so I suspect the brake pads might be stuck to the drums. There is good air pressure. Does this sound right to you guys? I feel I'm so close I don't want to be defeated now. Ideas? Thanks, Phil
Phil, I don't know specifics on your bus (like if it's spring parking/emerg brake configuration), but on many vehicles, you can check to see if the brakes release with a flashlight. Engine doesn't have to be running, just good air pressure in the tanks. Have someone else cycle the parking brake plunger (if they're spring brakes) and watch to see if the rods from the canister move the slack adjusters. It's hard to see on many vehicles, but if you can get a good luck, that will tell you if the brake system is actuating the release for the parking brakes. (For DD3 and other brake systems, you'll have to run checks suitable for those, but it may be possible to see the movement at the wheels.) That won't tell you everything but it's a good place to start.
As Tim says, try pushing on the brake pedal with the park brake off.
I don't know when DD3 brakes were first installed, if ever, on the 4106, but my 4107 has them.
I've never had either of my buses brakes stick, I live in the boonies and have to cross a couple of creeks with low water bridges.
Well, I got the bus rolling. Seems like pressing on the brake for 10 seconds at full air pressure might have worked. The bus is on asphalt now. I ended up plowing through a fair amount of dirt though and the clutch was smoking pretty good. Even so, when the bus started to stall I had to push in the clutch to keep it from stalling out. It didn't seem to slip, I'll have to wait till it cools to see if I did any damage to it. Reason I ended up plowing through dirt was it looks like I lost at least 1 airbag on the passenger side rear. I need to jack and block the bus. I have 1 rear replacement airbag. My question is, where is the best place to put the jack and blocks? Is there a way to get this wrong? I was thinking of replacing all of the airbags anyway, not knowing how old these are. Fear of the unknown! Thanks guys, Phil
Be careful with the clutch or you will be replacing it too, not fun
Might be a good time to figure out how the clutch is adjusted for wear. If it is like the MC8, it is a simple procedure provided you can reach the knob.
Is there a way to get this wrong..
yes wrong enough that it can kill you...
i know you are asking...but if there is no one there to show you...well telling you may serve only to increase your risk...
be safe, Christmas is coming.
Lots and lots of blocks on solid ground at the jacking points, get specs on your bus for proper jacking and blocking points, Don wasn't kidding when he said it could kill you
What model bus?
I don't know for sure, but just guessing from your two questions you are early on the learning curve for this bus. It would be massively useful to get the manual and dive into it. Judging from your brake issue, it would seem that you have DD3 brakes. DD3's do not release by merely pushing the parking brake valve-- they always require a full force foot brake application after pulling the valve. So it is possible your brakes were not stuck at all but only acting as they should (if you really have spring brakes, forget this comment).
Your bus has very specific jacking points, and they are the only places you can lift it, although there should be other points that can be blocked once the bus is raised. Anyway, that's the way it is on my 5a. Aside from the manual, see if you can communicate with someone that has or has had the same model.
Ask lots of questions and even repeat them until you are sure you have it right. Everyone starts from zero and most of us are still learning bit by bit.
Quote from: Lin on December 06, 2015, 09:43:29 AM
I don't know for sure, but just guessing from your two questions you are early on the learning curve for this bus. It would be massively useful to get the manual and dive into it. Judging from your brake issue, it would seem that you have DD3 brakes. DD3's do not release by merely pulling the parking brake valve-- they always require a full force foot brake application after pulling the valve. So it is possible your brakes were not stuck at all but only acting as they should (if you really have spring brakes, forget this comment).
Your bus has very specific jacking points, and they are the only places you can lift it, although there should be other points that can be blocked once the bus is raised. Anyway, that's the way it is on my 5a. Aside from the manual, see if you can communicate with someone that has or has had the same model.
Ask lots of questions and even repeat them until you are sure you have it right. Everyone starts from zero and most of us are still learning bit by bit.
actually that happens after you push the knob....usually flat, square and yellow...
Quote from: Lin on December 06, 2015, 09:43:29 AM
I don't know for sure, but just guessing from your two questions you are early on the learning curve for this bus. It would be massively useful to get the manual and dive into it. Judging from your brake issue, it would seem that you have DD3 brakes. DD3's do not release by merely pulling the parking brake valve-- they always require a full force foot brake application after pulling the valve. So it is possible your brakes were not stuck at all but only acting as they should (if you really have spring brakes, forget this comment).
Your bus has very specific jacking points, and they are the only places you can lift it, although there should be other points that can be blocked once the bus is raised. Anyway, that's the way it is on my 5a. Aside from the manual, see if you can communicate with someone that has or has had the same model.
Ask lots of questions and even repeat them until you are sure you have it right. Everyone starts from zero and most of us are still learning bit by bit.
My 4107 DD3 brakes are released by pushing in on the button. Pulling out sets them.
Also, 99% of the time mine releases, after a very slight pause, when the button is pushed in. Those few times it doesn't I almost never have to push the brake pedal more than a tiny bit.
However, I never push very hard setting it either unless on a very steep incline. Usually I don't push the pedal at all when setting it.
My button is round and black:)
Axles are the only really safe jacking points. If you must jack the body try to do it at a suspension point on the body. If that isn't possible jack at a body bulkhead point and then don't get under it until the axle or suspension point is supported. These old Al bodies suffer internal corrosion so are unpredictable. When new they are strong, but old age often takes that away.
When replacing air bags you have to somehow lift the body from the axle but be sure to block between the axle and body when you do.
I use a 8 ft piece of 4in I beam with jacks on each end to raise the body then block between the axle and body for safety JMW
Thanks for all your words of caution and advice. My parking brake is a big silver lever between the drivers seat and electrical console. I might not have had a stuck brake at all. The bus seemed to settle into some ruts which made it hard to get it moving. I dug out behind the wheels but upon reflection I might not have dug down deep enough. My air bag was coming up when I started this evolution but I might have over pressurized it because I couldn't really tell if it was coming up. The P.O. installed a system where I have 4 silver knobs below the dash each one adding or releasing air to a corner of the bus. I saw someone else post that they had the same set-up but they had a pressure gauge to tell them how much pressure they had on each set of air bags. I do not, but I definitely thing it's a worthy investment. So now I'm basking in the aftermath of my own ignorance.
I read DA-BOOK and saw where the jacking and blocking points are. The bus came with some blocks to put between the axle and suspension, this will be a project for tomorrow. I'll let you know after I assess the damage. Thanks again guys, Phil
My bad! It has been corrected.
Drive the side that works up on a four inch block and put blocks under the bulkhead supports. Only the axle you are working on. Then let the air out so it sets on the blocks. Jack the side up so you can get the tire off and you should have just enough room to remove the airbag and put the new one in. The weight of the bus is on the blocks so you are just jacking the axle up and down. Driving it on the block uses the airbag to jack the body up.and it just wants to stay level. Block it evenly. I like to use 3x8x12+ Doug fir blocks topped with a 2x8x10 piece of oak.
Quote from: Sharkbait on December 06, 2015, 04:13:35 PM
Thanks for all your words of caution and advice. My parking brake is a big silver lever between the drivers seat and electrical console. I might not have had a stuck brake at all. The bus seemed to settle into some ruts which made it hard to get it moving. I dug out behind the wheels but upon reflection I might not have dug down deep enough. My air bag was coming up when I started this evolution but I might have over pressurized it because I couldn't really tell if it was coming up. The P.O. installed a system where I have 4 silver knobs below the dash each one adding or releasing air to a corner of the bus. I saw someone else post that they had the same set-up but they had a pressure gauge to tell them how much pressure they had on each set of air bags. I do not, but I definitely thing it's a worthy investment. So now I'm basking in the aftermath of my own ignorance.
I read DA-BOOK and saw where the jacking and blocking points are. The bus came with some blocks to put between the axle and suspension, this will be a project for tomorrow. I'll let you know after I assess the damage. Thanks again guys, Phil
If it is a long vertical lever it is a mechanical park brake, not an air spring brake. You can see the brake band on the drive shaft.
Wow Jackhanow, wish I had known that trick this morning. I spent the first couple of hours this morning making a run-up block per da-book. Came out pretty good. I had a 2 ft. Piece of 4 x 12 and I backed it with a 3/4 piece of plywood. That long incline cut with a hand saw took some effort. But, now I have it. Rolled the low side up on it which gave me the room to get a bottle jack under the. Jack point. Then it was a matter of jacking and blocking. I blocked both sides and when I got under I placed blocks between the axle and frame.
My initial inspection found nothing wrong. Both airbags look intact and the airlines don't have any noticeable breaks. I had to make a wood piece that I can clamp to the air valve to depress it so tomorrow I'll hook up my compressor and run some air through the line and get back under there and find the leak. I'll let you know what I find out, Thanks again, Phil
A quick ramp is 2xs stacked at a 6 inch step taper. It makes a natural taper that the bus can drive up. i do 2x8s 2 wide per tire and only 3 layers high. Alternate long across long. Long enough that there is at least 12 inches of length for the tire to sit on. I always try to use fir not pine and 2x8 because the wider boards just split.could go higher but I can fit under my bus with the extra 5 inches when the air bags are down. .and also put a block at the place you want it to stop so you don't need to wait for the guide to yell stop. You can now put block at the support posts and work on the axle with out jacking the whole bus. They love that when you do a tour bus brake job in a hotel parking lot. When placing the boards for the ramp remember to make sure you can get the jack in the right spot, which now is the end for the air bag arm since your your not picking the bus up. Handy.
Looks like I didn't have to jack up the bus after all. I've got a break in my airline! Very accessible too, (how often does that happen?). It's in one of the 2 lines travelling through the old A/C condenser space, (now the generator space). Looks like it was hanging low and the sun got to it and hardened it and then it broke. I need to replace about 20". I know they must make connectors and or splice kits for this line? It kinda looks like the line that goes to the ice maker in the freezer. White, plastic probably 3/16" I.D.? Any ideas? Phil
It probably 1/4 but you can use compression fittings . Make sure you use the metro inserts or they have some push in type that you can remove later as
Well
Well, that was an easy fix. It seems 1/4" fittings and air line are readily available. I just cut out the bad section of hose, insert the hose into the fitting and it's fixed. Hose less than $1.00 a foot, couplings $7.00 and some change each at the local truck supply place.Thanks for all your help. Regards, Phil
Quote from: Sharkbait on December 09, 2015, 04:15:25 PMWell, that was an easy fix. It seems 1/4" fittings and air line are readily available. I just cut out the bad section of hose, insert the hose into the fitting and it's fixed. Hose less than $1.00 a foot, couplings $7.00 and some change each at the local truck supply place.Thanks for all your help. Regards, Phil
Did you use the "push-in" type fittings? I like them but I've found that they're often a little touchy -- in fact, they're too touchy for some people at all. If you did, it's probably a good idea to check them now and after about a week. Spray a weak solution of dish soap on the connector ends and look for bubbles. Also, it helps to seal them up by giving the tubing a slight tug once it's been put in -- that "seats" the tubing in the connector and helps prevent leaks. Yeah, easy fix (with either push-in or compression-ring couplings).
Yes I did use the push-in type and thanks for the advice. I'll give the tubing a tug to help it Seat and I'll check them periodically. I meant this as a temp fix. Eventually I want to replace both runs with new tubing. Only problem is, as we used to say in Navel Air "There's nothing so permenant as a good temporary fix". Regards, Phil
Quote from: Sharkbait on December 10, 2015, 11:16:45 AMYes I did use the push-in type and thanks for the advice. I'll give the tubing a tug to help it Seat and I'll check them periodically. I meant this as a temp fix. Eventually I want to replace both runs with new tubing. Only problem is, as we used to say in Navel Air "There's nothing so permenant as a good temporary fix". Regards, Phil
That all sounds good. If you get those push-ins to hold air when you install them, they're usually good for a while -- problem is that there is an o-ring inside and they tend to age and leak. If they're OK now, they're good for a temp fix, permanent temp fix or not. As you say, by far the best thing is to replace the tubes with new.
I'm glad it's working for you! B Henderson, eastern NC, USA
(Pilot, NC Forest Service, Av. Division so I know about permanent temp fixes, too)