Connected battery and everything powered up
Connected radiator just a dash of rust in the water
Tested the stop solenoid and it is functioning properly
Tested sensors / thermostat all good.
Tested glow plugs and electric pump.
Connected diesel and I had diesel up to the injector pump.
Tested injector pump and all three injector pistons were frozen, used a little PB breaker and ran it through a few revolutions by hand and everything started moving.
The injector pump Delivery Holders were tightened all the way down, should they be?
They have a toothed indexing ring to lock them in place, are they designed to be tightened all the way down or are they set somewhere less than tight and held by the indexing ring?
The reason I ask is will them fully tightened I do not get any fuel delivery out of the top of the Delivery Holder unless they are just a hair less than tight. but I still cant get it to fire off.
I do get a puff of gray ( could be water vapor ) from every cylinder on the exhaust stroke but the injector pipes are not being fed fuel :( unless im just fighting air in the system...
Im a diesel generator newbee, any ideas?
'and held by the index ring"... highly unlikely... likely battling air...
Todd -
It might be helpful to tell us what engine that genset has that you're trying to get started. Is it a Kubota? Perkins? Yanmar?
FWIW & HTH. . .
;)
Quote from: RJ on November 03, 2015, 01:48:06 PM
Todd -
It might be helpful to tell us what engine that genset has that you're trying to get started. Is it a Kubota? Perkins? Yanmar?
FWIW & HTH. . .
;)
ihikawa shinbooki... :) more commonly Ishikawajima Shibaura
Sorry - N843 Shibaura 3 cylinder 4 stroke diesel.
It has a fuel pump that comes on with the glow plugs to prime the system, im going to connect a hose from the top of the system back to the fuel tank and run the pump for a while to see if I can get some air out.
(https://busconversionmagazine.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.busconversions.com%2Fbbs%2Findex.php%3Faction%3Ddlattach%3Btopic%3D29899.0%3Battach%3D27522%3Bimage&hash=21ea517b531e276cbefd8b6ffcdfe4cf03c6a3f3)
They tighten down the newer models have hex nuts to tighten with ? why are you trying to bleed air at that point do you have a manual.You are working on the injection pump they are simple it works like a rail system kinda, the housing is full of fuel it has a cam and each of the holders you call it are actually 3 injector pumps that produce 2350 psi ea
If you remove the 4 bolts the whole assembly comes out except the cam
Those engines require a long time on the glow heat 15 seconds won't get it done mine will take 45 seconds @ 70 degrees the glow plugs are very low wattage.lol I found that out after changing glow plugs 3 times
I was getting fuel up to the input side of the injection pump, juts nothing after that point, then i found the stuck pump pistons under the delivery holders.
Yes I am working from a manual, im just having a hard time getting fuel at high pressure out of the delivery holders but it may be an air issue.
tomorrow i will do a bottom to top bleed on everything.
How many kW is that beast Todd?
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From the picture, it appears to be 8kw.
Couple of thoughts:
I'm not a big fan of RTFM and that has cost me dearly over the years. So bearing in mind that there may be some unique bleeding routine for this particular engine which RTFM will reveal, I would likely crack the nuts at the injectors and bleed until I got solid fuel at the injectors.
You said that the injector pump was stuck - is it possible that the lift pump is also not working? From hard experience I know that on my Onans simply "having fuel running" at the intake on the injection pump is not sufficient. My Onans require a charge pressure in order for the injection pump to work so it may be possible that, while you believe you have fuel flow to the injection pump, it is not of adequate pressure for the injection pump to actually pump fuel.
A mechanical diesel like this unit is the simplest machine on the planet. If it turns over and delivers fuel it absolutely WILL run, barring some catastrophic internal failure. From that you can deduce that if it is turning over and not running then it doesn't have fuel. You should at the very least have gray/white smoke if you are getting fuel but not turning over fast enough to start. If you don't have smoke you don't have fuel.
well the factory ran it for 18 min when they built it, then it sat there for all those years with what diesel was trapped from testing between the fuel pump and the cylinders.
I was surprised it was still a diesel colored liquid, it may have gummed up the bottom end of the injection pump, today I will find out!
Todd, bleeding out the system can be hard if the injection pump pistons are not in perfect condition. A little rust will prevent the proper amount of pressure, which in turn wont 'pop' the delivery valves, which will prevent the fuel to ever getting to the injectors.
Its a messy process. Start at the pump and work up. Remove delivery valves and make sure you get fuel coming up. (Remove valve from holder and reinstall holder sans valve when you crank.
Move up the system from there
Thanks Mark,
When I removed the delivery holders, the spring, and the delivery check valve I could see fuel come up in the body from the electric pump, but im not sure im getting fuel through each of the injection pump pistons.
At first all three pistons were stuck in the up position and I used a hardwood dowel to push the center of the piston down its bore as I rotated the engine by hand and got them all free.
I just got a fresh tank of diesel so im going to try a bottom to top bleed and see what I get. Hopefully I get past the delivery holders.
Is there anything magical about the injection pump? Can I just pull it and rebuild it? I just dont want to fubar a seal that is no longer in existence.
There is a plug on the back side of the housing to drain the old fuel,I never needed to do it but have saw people fill the housing with lacquer thinner and let set over night to remove the gum
Quote from: luvrbus on November 04, 2015, 03:17:26 AM
There is a plug on the back side of the housing to drain the old fuel,I never needed to do it but have saw people fill the housing with lacquer thinner and let set over night to remove the gum
Thanks luvrbus! I will check that out!
That looks like a Kubota engine. Good unit-you could re convert it back to a radiator cooled engine changing the exhaust manifold to a standard non cooled, then wrap it. All engines start out as radiator cooled, then add the heat exchanger for sea water cooled through the heat exchanger. I only know of one Diesel that is raw water cooled-that is some of the Panda marine generators.
I went on a processing fishing boat that had the sea water go through a heat exchanger to the coolant for the engine heat exchanger that cooled the engine coolant. So the engine was twice removed from sea water. Impressive system. But you don't need all that for a bus generator. Good Luck, TomC
Changing the manifold is not necessary I kept the water cooled manifold on my Kubota and ran it dry it's still in use today 15 years later never has been a problem
Well... with nothing but the electric pump connected to the battery and the top of the system vented i was still getting no fuel pressure.. and no fuel out the vent
until.. fuel started coming out of the dip stick ::) im calling shenanigans on the injector pump and im about to pull it for inspection.
TomC - from what i understand some of these were sold as Kubota lable
Grrr. injection pump is out, when connected to a fuel line it pisses fuel out of the body of the pump by the slide.
Two phillips screws holding the retainer plate wont budge..
managed to get them out with a jewelers chisel and some tough love.
woo hoo just rebuilt the pump checking the installed height on everything with a micrometer and I found the problem!
Someone on the friday shift had installed the pump cylinders without indexing them into their keyways so so they were not seated and blowing by fuel into the case.
now to change the oil for the third time....
When I worked at a DD dealership...I/we wasn't even allowed in the clean room :) but we could see in the window :)
Well I hit the switch and it cranked right up!
Runs really good and it is fairly quiet.
I am down to two issues:
1. when i open the engine coolant drain on the side of the block nothing come out??? Dirt dobber had to be removed - problem solved...
2. there is a riser on the top of the engine by the oil fill with a 1/4" plug in it and I dont know what it is???
Someone on the friday shift had installed the pump cylinders without indexing them into their keyways so so they were not seated and blowing by fuel into the case.
now to change the oil for the third time....
[/quote]
I doubt that happen the engine ran for a load test lol you by any chance the guy on the Friday shift
just kidding
Quote from: luvrbus on November 04, 2015, 10:39:02 AM
Someone on the friday shift had installed the pump cylinders without indexing them into their keyways so so they were not seated and blowing by fuel into the case.
now to change the oil for the third time....
I doubt that happen the engine ran for a load test lol you by any chance the guy on the Friday shift
just kidding
Eekk I hope not, but there is a good possibility i could have done it trying to get the pistons unstuck, but i dont think so... there must be some reason it was never used for 27 years.
Well including the nine quarts of oil, three gallons of diesel, and one tube of locktite that was one cheap generator ;D
That looks bigger than an 8kw but I know that's the range of kW you were looking for
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Is it making electricity ?
Quote from: Scott Bennett on November 04, 2015, 01:25:09 PM
That looks bigger than an 8kw but I know that's the range of kW you were looking for
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I think its an optical illusion because it is on a workbench, its actually very small for what it is > 30L x 22T x 16W
It's a Generc made generator you remove some of the marine stuff it's not very big in size
Good for you Todd! Sweet diesel smell of success!
Quote from: OneLapper on November 04, 2015, 02:01:18 PM
Good for you Todd! Sweet diesel smell of success!
Thanks Mark, i think i got off easy on this one..
after soaking, loosen the lines at the injectors and pump or crank til the fuel squirts out at the fittings,tighten and glow up for 45 seconds and try again. may need to re glow a second time if it only tries to fire.those injectors will not just bleed on their own. the electric pump wont push the fuel past the pump. the gray smoke was probably what ever you sprayed into it trying to get it to run or over fueling.