Another ? for the electrical gifted as some know my batteries went south how does the battery temperature sensor work the batteries have the sensors should they have not prevented the batteries from having a thermal runaway as was told to me.
Aren't the sensors supposed to regulate the charging rate through the inverter if the batteries are too getting hot, I am just trying to figure out why this happen so it doesn't happen again thanks
I changed from a xantrex inverter to a magnum inverter and tried to use the temperature censer from the xantrex that was on the - battery post ... didn't work ... had to install the magnum censer .
works great now
dave
Yes the temp sensor should switch the inverter into low charge rate or off on a high temperature signal.
1. This depends on the temp sensor working properly
2. The software revision in the inverter
3. some depend on the wire type. Some temp sensors have a calibrated wire resistance and extending them with the incorrect type of wire will cause them to not function properly.
Sometimes a battery will drop a plate ( due to age or abuse ) and internally short causing what looks like a high temp / overcharge condition.
Had you recently changed your charge rate?
Sorry to hear you lost your batteries!
Was the melt down in all of the batteries? or just one?
They got so hot it melted the 6 case together 2 are really bad,the tech told me when one has a thermal melt down it takes all of the batteries with it.
I am just looking for a reason it happen the reps are pretty tight lipped about the deal they don't volunteer any info it's sorta like getting a kid to admit a lie lol
I know not 1 of the 6 will take a charge now.I even went and bought me a high 80 amp mechanical charger thinking it was just my smart chargers still no joy for 190 bucks ???,when 1st happen they said they would replace the batteries
Now they are back peddling and just want to pay part of it because they were not in a well vented area with no space around the batteries according to their Rev D issued 4/14/14 which I knew nothing about.
The battery monitor (new) works it shows the charge rate,volts,temperature and amps but I am not in the bus 24hrs either but it has never shown over charging or high temps when I looked at it
bummer..
what charger?
what temp sensor?
were the temp sensor wires extended?
was the charge rate compatible with the AH of the battery bank?
anything weird like blown diodes in the alternator/generator possibly feeding ac to the charger rather than dc?
Quotebecause they were not in a well vented
= BS , that is part of what the temp sensor is for..
if the sensor is 0-10v then is could be corrosion in the pins, if it is 4/20ma then it could be the load resistor failed.
I think it was a battery problem and they have had happen before or the revision D would never came out.It is nice install no mickey mouse install.
John and Steve went to great expensive on the cables and wiring no splices any where.I have stacked (2) 4000w pure sine wave Xantrex with chargers they work good you can see the bulk and float charge at all times.I just don't want it to happen again so am going by the book
What have you got in the bus that needs 8000W of inverters?
5 roof airs for 1 thing but I am changing to just 1- 4000w,8000w is common on the factory Prevost conversions which mine is not
Quote from: luvrbus on September 19, 2015, 12:21:42 PM
I think it was a battery problem and they have had happen before or the revision D would never came out.It is nice install no mickey mouse install.
John and Steve went to great expensive on the cables and wiring no splices any where.I have stacked (2) 4000w pure sine wave Xantrex with chargers they work good you can see the bulk and float charge at all times.I just don't want it to happen again so am going by the book
Just a guess, possibly a too progressive charge rate and a too lenient high temp alarm set point lead to battery overheating and plate erosion causing one of the batteries to eventually internally short and wiping out the string of batteries. = software error
Nope the tech check all the setting
You may want to add something like this to measure compartment temp and send a shut down signal > http://www.grainger.com/product/JOHNSON-CONTROLS-Line-Volt-Mechanical-Tstat-38Y057?s_pp=false&picUrl=//static.grainger.com/rp/s/is/image/Grainger/38Y048_AS01? (http://www.grainger.com/product/JOHNSON-CONTROLS-Line-Volt-Mechanical-Tstat-38Y057?s_pp=false&picUrl=//static.grainger.com/rp/s/is/image/Grainger/38Y048_AS01?)
Quote from: luvrbus on September 19, 2015, 12:40:31 PM
Nope the tech check all the setting
If all of the settings are correct what did the software revision fix??
It's not a software revision the D revision is a installation revision from LifeLine
Quote from: luvrbus on September 19, 2015, 12:46:48 PM
It's not a software revision the D revision is a installation revision from LifeLine
O... sorry i missed that
If people read the revision it will change the outlook on where to mount a LifeLine AGM it has me ;D
Quote from: luvrbus on September 19, 2015, 12:52:01 PM
If people read the revision it will change the outlook on where to mount a LifeLine AGM it has me ;D
Do they want the air conditioned and polished daily?
The stacked inverters aren't doubling down on the charging are they? I think the battery compartment temperature overheat and charging shut down is a good idea for any battery setup in an enclosure. How about installing one of those muffin fans to move fresh air through battery compartment when charging. Use it as a pusher fan to keep fumes out of fan.
Quote from: luvrbus on September 19, 2015, 12:52:01 PM
If people read the revision it will change the outlook on where to mount a LifeLine AGM it has me ;D
True but if the batteries were bought and installed prior to the revision..well they ought to be a little more amenable to making it "more" right
:(
Do a search for muffin fans. They are available in 12,24,and 115 volts. They are silent, durable, low cost, and can run for thousands of hours with no complaint. They are used a lot for electronics cooling
If you make the modifications they want, then revisions e,f,g,h,,,,,, wont be met down the road when they fail the next time.
You'll almost need a high temp shut down near each battery for it to work well. If it is placed at one end or middle of bank, it may not see the high temp from two batteries away. If used for lead acid batteries, the copper sensor will corrode and eat away from the fumes over time. Maybe they make non metallic probe styles.
Quote from: luvrbus on September 19, 2015, 12:35:24 PM
5 roof airs for 1 thing but I am changing to just 1- 4000w,8000w is common on the factory Prevost conversions which mine is not
Sounds like the batteries are just innocent victims of owner-perpetrated batterycide
Quote from: Tony LEE on September 20, 2015, 06:09:15 AM
Sounds like the batteries are just innocent victims of owner-perpetrated batterycide
That could be now do you have any suggestions on how to remedy the problem
how do you even test an over temp sensor...?
i have one, but i have my doubts as to it's ability to prevent a failure.
They had a little pre set electric pad and took a reading from the leads what it look like to me and they used a meter to read the resistance,I wouldn't know how for sure it didn't take him but a couple of minutes to check those
Quote from: luvrbus on September 20, 2015, 10:06:40 AM
They had a little pre set electric pad and took a reading from the leads what it look like to me and they used a meter to read the resistance,I wouldn't know how for sure it didn't take him but a couple of minutes to check those
did they bless or condemn the over temp deal ?
Hi, Cliff.
Your battery temperature sensor is a thermister, which is a resistor that reduces resistance when heated and increases resistance when cooled. It does not connect electrically to the batteries. That's all it is.
The inverter reads a map to adjust it's charging profile to the the battery type selected in setup. What it doesn't do is get a perfect match between charger and batteries. And the available batteries are not very efficient when it comes to making heat when charging or discharging. Aging complicates the problem, adding to the mismatch.
If you have an easily adjustable voltage regulator, you could make seasonal adjustments to improve your odds, or you could install a remote reading thermometer in your battery compartment. That could work when parked or on the road.
I think that you are right that the battery people are trying to dodge an allowance for early failure. I guess it depends on how much they value their reputation. In any case, the batteries are much too expensive and they are overrated. I have no doubt that they know exactly what they are selling and how you wound up in this fix.
As a comparison, we got some old L16s from NAPA junkpile about 15 years ago and ran them until we sold the boat a couple of years ago. They're still in that boat, as far as I know. They had a design life of 12 years for service in floor buffing machines.
The boat only had a temperature range of 30 to 60 degrees, where you have maybe 30 to 120 degrees. That's a critical difference, especially since AGM's do not like high temperature recharging.
I hope you can make some good of this. I'm sure the people you are meeting were aware before you of the heat dissipation requirements.
Take care.
Tom Caffrey