Tom,I was out at Yucca testing track today with friends from WW Wiiliams and got a look at the new DD5 and DD8 that is supposed to arrive in 2016 looks like you guys and Daimier are going to take a big swing at Cummins with these 2 engines and DD10 on the drawing board
Fwiw the DD5 was a sweet sounding little engine I went there expecting to see a big engine not so and the DD5 has good torque and hp for it's size a 5.1 L
Finally...for pickup trucks maybe ??
(https://scontent-atl3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpf1/v/t1.0-9/11988625_1093074627371120_3311129893683269007_n.jpg?oh=f13bf83815dfacf02cd247f149c84d9e&oe=56ABFAF0)
As the resident CUMMINS stock holder here, I say to DETROIT to come on in the water is fine. We'll indeed see who has the better product via the market. :) Strange how DETROIT had such a long absence in the light to medium duty market.
I can tell you Milton DD and Cummins had a good relation the DD even used a Cummins turbo now with the Germans owning DD all gloves are off I believe
Is the DD5 a 6 or 4 cylinder? I know CUMMINS has a 5.0L V8(ISV) that will be used in the NISSAN TITAN that may also be used in skoolies and medium trucks at some point. I thought it they were going to be in skoolies by this time so I don't know what's going on but the bit of extra smoothness of a V8 may be appreciated.
Both are just upgraded Mercedes engines the OM934 is the DD5 and the DD8 is the OM936 produced in Europe but will be made in the USA starting in 2016 or 2018 if the BS is correct
Diesel engines are becoming a hard sell in small vehicles I would think. They have become so complex and sensitive. Gasoline is so cheap now, and gas engines so thrifty. All our vehicles have been diesel for years, but our next car will probably be back to gas for those reasons. The only advantage of diesel anymore is the torque for pulling big loads like with a 1 ton pickup.
JC
Quote from: lostagain on September 13, 2015, 09:20:47 AM
. Gasoline is so cheap now, but our next car will probably be back to gas for those reasons.
JC
were i you (non nonpartisanly) :).... i would not count on the price of fuel in an election season :)
No matter how efficient a gasoline engine gets-and they are now with direct fuel injection, turbocharging with air to air intercooling, varible valve timing, etc-a Diesel will always get better fuel mileage. Mainly because a Diesel is running with 100% open air intake and Diesel fuel has about 20% more BTU's (heat) than gasoline. Yes Diesels have gotton complicated. But now we're seeing not only the cleanest burning Diesels, but also the most fuel efficient. With the after treatment (catalytic converter, Diesel particulate filter, Selective Catalyst Reduction [using DEF or Urea{which is 32% Ammonia and de-ionized filtered water}]), I have seen trucks with over 250,000mi come in with no black on the inside of the exhaust pipe!
The interesting thing about the DD5 and DD8 is they are built just like the DD13, 15, 16. The engines look like they took a big engine and left it in the dryer too long. Once again, Detroit is following past design experiences and keeping with one design throughout their engine line. Unlike Cummins where the ISX15 is totally different from the ISX12 which is totally different from the ISL which is totally different from the ISB which is totally different from their new 5 liter V-8. I'll put my money on Detroit continuing to be the fuel mileage champ also with these engines.
The new ratings for the DD13 are out, and there is a 500hp @ 1,850lb/ft torque-they have been running that in Europe (OM471) for a few years, so we're going to try that also. And all the big engines are rated at 1625rpm (still will rev to 2,000) and torque at 975rpm! But-I think we're getting close to the limit on efficiency on the standard 4 stroke engine. I believe the next big step will be running a 2 stroke opposed piston design. Good Luck, TomC
I got a lesson on Bio Diesel I never knew it would shorten the life of a diesel engine the DD5 will last for 600,000 miles on pure diesel and running the B20 it drops down to around 400,000 miles and the miles are in between on B5 and B10 I found that interesting from the German engineer that studied it tests
I drive a Freightliner Cascadia Evolution (TomC should be proud of me!) with the DD15 and 10 speed Eaton Fuller. It still amazes me how the torque sweet spot is between 1000 and 1500 rpm. It revs at 1250 rpm at 62 mph. It pulls 80000 lbs up a hill as far down as 1000 rpm, then I down shift. I wish I had that in my bus, only with the 12 speed Automated Manual Transmission...
By the way Swift, the biggest fleet in the country (17000 trucks), is going with the AMTs. They already have a few trucks with it, and will have all their tractors with it within 5 years. Better fuel economy, easier to hire and retain drivers. I have talked to some drivers who love it, and some who hate it.
Those new small diesels better be good and reliable. We have had nothing but trouble with our 2011 VW Jetta TDI, all to do with the particulate filter plugging up and having to be replaced, 3 times now . We have given up and it is for sale. The 2012 Ford Powerstroke on the other hand, has been completely trouble free. Ford finally figured it out. It uses DEF.
JC
Quote from: TomC on September 13, 2015, 10:32:32 AM
I believe the next big step will be running a 2 stroke opposed piston design. Good Luck, TomC
Yeah, the return of the Commer TS-3 and the Napier Deltic !! See, I knew they would come back. Fairbanks-Morse, all is forgiven.
Seriously though, any engine design that doesn't need a cylinder head surely is more thermodynamically efficient than one that does? I expect emissions will still be the challenge with opposed-piston engines because they are completely dependent on effective scavenging through their ports, unlike Detroits' exhaust valves that allow a through flow of combustion gases and intake air.
John
Aren't emissions taken care of now with heat? The DD15 in my truck will go up to 220* before the rad fan comes on going up a hill. Going down the road on the flat, it routinely runs at around 200*.
I should measure to see if it would fit in my MC5C, to replace the 6V92 when the time comes...
JC