Installing a propane furnace and not sure where exactly to install it. I want to be able to run it while driving down the road. Not really needing any advice on using OTR coach heat cause it's currently stripped out and not going to build a new system in the next 3 weeks before baby arrives. So the propane furnace is my project right now. Is placement important in terms of using the furnace while driving down the road? Don't want to snuff out the flame nor cause draft issues while driving at 90 mph. 8) Just need some help with where to install this thing. Also, need to build a small battery bank to run this thing overnight. We are boondocking at a National Park that has genset restriction from 10PM to 6AM. Can I get away with two deep cyclers to run it all night?
(https://busconversionmagazine.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.busconversions.com%2Fbbs%2Findex.php%3Faction%3Ddlattach%3Btopic%3D28887.0%3Battach%3D26443%3Bimage&hash=08eefd29ac5ac650850a0bce44bffc4e40ac62e6)
(https://busconversionmagazine.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.busconversions.com%2Fbbs%2Findex.php%3Faction%3Ddlattach%3Btopic%3D28887.0%3Battach%3D26445%3Bimage&hash=555bf6a8cdca696d4a13144868b1fdee73fdfe0f)
The cover that is on the front is just that but the furnace mounts in a hole in the side of your coach, You then duct it where you want the heat to come out. This is the usual RV set up. Propane must be run to it also. Two deep cycle batteries will last all night and then some. I have four, but have had the two in the past with no problems.
Thanks Leland. Good info...so the hole I have to drill on the side of the coach, is it just a small hole for the vent that I see there or a big square? I haven't picked up the furnace yet. Still trying to meet up with the seller...
I personally don't like the Atwoods because of the big hole you have to cut out. Suburbans you only have to drill 2 small holes. 26 K isn't much unless you are very well insulated either. I put a 40K under the kitchen cabinets because it's fairly central. I ran 2 ducts through the floor across the bays and back up to where I needed the heat, and 1 behind/under the couch, and the last one in the kitchen. You should try to keep the runs a similar length. Short runs will exhaust the most and the long runs have the least air volume. I would also use a furnace that has 4 outlets. 2 just isn't enough. Catalytic heaters, while they heat nicely, will produce a rain forest effect on your windows, and can condensate in the walls. If in below freezing temps that condensation will freeze. Then doors and windows won't open or close depending. Also get a carbon monoxide detector. It could save your life if the "heat box" cracks.
Excellent info skihor! Thank you! I will not use any kind of ventless heater. Major major condensation. BTDT.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Link to installation instructions
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0CCcQFjAAahUKEwid9cng8fPHAhWFBZIKHYN7BE8&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.atwoodmobile.com%2Fmanuals%2Ffurnaces%2FMPD%252033179%2520SP%25201.08.pdf&usg=AFQjCNF9571jB-Dp-K2N3IKVXrvWCcMcdw&sig2=Keg3easvKYKDUAl559ckmQ (https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0CCcQFjAAahUKEwid9cng8fPHAhWFBZIKHYN7BE8&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.atwoodmobile.com%2Fmanuals%2Ffurnaces%2FMPD%252033179%2520SP%25201.08.pdf&usg=AFQjCNF9571jB-Dp-K2N3IKVXrvWCcMcdw&sig2=Keg3easvKYKDUAl559ckmQ)
Thank you for that link! Already been studying it
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I also need to add a heat source to our bus (102a3) and have thought about using a fan forced lpg furnace mounted in first bay and blowing into OTR air box as my OTR heat and ac are still intact and working.Has anyone else thought of this ? Would it work or why not .
Chuck
hi Scott, I'm putting a inside propane furna e in the hanging closet, with the wiring 110 & 12V, which is right above the 3 water tanks and house batteries, a 2" vent hole, should keep everything warm & above freezing, tom, lvmci...
Lvmci, I think I'll plumb some air to head down into the luggage bay too for just that reason.
Chuck, I'm considering mounting the furnace in a bay too. Seems like a waste to blow that warm moist exhaust air into the open. Wondering if I can vent it into the bay to keep it warm or if I really need to vent it to outside.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Hey Scott!
Something that I read while doing my research may be helpful. The exhaust air that comes out of the vents is really hot, so make sure when you mount it that the exhaust air isn't pointed at something it's going to destroy. Examples might be bay doors in the open position, air bags, etc. (I've heard of some people mounting the furnace in the bay.)
I'm thinking of mounting mine near the middle of the coach front-to-back so my duct runs are roughly equal. The unit will be under the pantry on the passenger side. I'm planning on mounting it so that the exhaust blows into the gap between the bay doors when they're in the open position outside. Hope this helps.
if you are using propane the exhaust has to be vented out side
dave
Exhaust air wether it be propane,oil, gasoline or natutal gas, diesel produce carbon monoxide when burned. Do you want this when you will have a baby arouind. It MUST be exhausted to the outside. You could put a duct from the heat side into the bay to keep it warm.
I put 2 furnaces in our coach. The 4 duct 40K under the kitchen cabinet, and a 20K 2 duct under the rear bed. I ran 1 duct from each one to the rear bay where all of the fresh & waste tanks are. I have kept water flowing down as low as -16* F, (minus 16* F), One of the ducts I split and ran to each side and one is near the water pump. We live in our coach full time so I had to figure something out that was simple and works. Our bus has the stock insulation, Penninsula single pane windows, and non insulated bays. Winter propane use can get a little spendy, but no more that apts. that I have lived in. In the summer we use about 6 gallons a month for water heater/cooking. Overall we go through about 350 gallons a year
Don
Dave and scanzel,
Help explain a couple things to me cause we've never had a propane furnace so I'm honestly coming into this uncertain.
I have used propane ventless heaters in the past in the bus. I have a CO detector and it's never gone off. Ever. That being said, the propane through off a decent amount of moisture that inevitably found its way to our glass and made for wet window sills. We also have. 16,000 BTU 4 burner stove/oven and frequently cook all day long in the winter or fall months baking cookies, granola, etc. the thing never gets turned off...plus using burners to cook gravies etc. CO detector never even shows any levels. I know the alarms work (I have two) because I've tested them with our genset exhaust. My propane furnace will now be drawing in outside (bay) air for combustion so we won't have oxygen level issues inside, and it will be exhausting combustion air back into the bay. I have holes in the bay for sewer and water lines that are large and not sealed so it will have plenty of air. My coach is completely sealed off from the bays. My plytanium floors were cut and laid by me with a tight fit side to side plus a urethane caulk down the side. They are tongue and groove front to back with a bead of urethane in the groove also. All plumbing was caulked and sealed tight....zero air will get from my bay into the coach. The furnace would be located in the center water bay with the exhaust pointed safely so as not to burn or melt anything, and that bay is my wet bay with the flooring stained and polyeurethaned and completely waterproof. I designed it that way so that bay could be rinsed out with a garden hose. Someone tell me if my plan is still flawed
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
still flawed... back in the day, coal miners used canaries to detect lack of oxygen... they would keel over before a human.
your baby is a canary.
hi Scott, propane from heater and waterheaters, need to be exhausted directly outside, mine is thru the banner board directly above the bay, if you exhaust into the bays, there are many holes in the C3 floor for for air, electrical and even waterlines that will allow the exhaust to reenter the cabin, a real nono, by the way, I asked Gary and Van to exhaust the tankless water thru the bay door, it became such a large hole to accommodate the swing of the door, thru the inner steel, before the exterior door. we decided it would be better thru wood floor and banner door, lvmci...
Quote from: eagle19952 on September 16, 2015, 08:02:13 AMstill flawed... back in the day, coal miners used canaries to detect lack of oxygen... they would keel over before a human.
your baby is a canary.
Another vote from me. The human body selectively bonds CO to hemoglobin in the blood (the affinity is about 200 times stronger than oxygen) and the hemoglobin won't let the CO go. This excludes oxygen from the circulatory system and cells and tissues in the body; it's basically internal suffocation and it damages brain and nerve cells first. It's also very hard to deal with in an ER or hospital and -- as Don says -- it's particularly damaging to infants and children. "CO - the silent killer".
My 40Kbtu Suburban ducted furnace is in my rear bay. I don't recommend this install, but it's what I got so there you go. The furnace is up off the floor and exhaust.intake is out the side of the bus just aft of the bay door. I built a cold air return duct that takes room air from the floor of a closet/shelf area. I have three ducted hot air outlets, one is very close to the furnace with a very short duct, the other two are far away and I used wrapped insulated flexible duct tie-wrapped to the roof of the bays. It works great, is very quiet for an RV furnace, is probably inefficient as heck, and if I ever have to do any maintenance to it I am looking at around a day to just do the pull and re-install.
Very important to do the air in/exhaust for the combustion to outside, to pull the cold air return intake from the living space, and to keep ducts short, to the point and insulated. And design it so you can service it...
Brian
YOU guys are lucky
in ontario canada any rv whether home made or store bought has to have a TSSA gas certificate on the gas system to prove it is safe to use . or not only is it unsafe your insurance will be void if you ever need it . whether you paid insurance or not
the way the gas stove works is that you have to have a pot or pan above the flame to stop the unsafe use of the gas so you do not pass out and there are regulation's about size of btu's that the stove or oven can be
the only thing that I got away with on my small 12 k propane furnace was they let me put stainless steel wool in the exhaust out let to stop the flame from going out as I drive
not tiring to be a dick but you have to be safe
dave
I didn't intend to start something but my concern was for your safety and your family. I work in a children's hospital and when the winter months come and the heat goes on we start seeing cases of carbon monoxide poisoning in children and infants because of faulty heating devices and just stupidity of someone having a charcoal grill or propane grill in there house trying to heat it. We are in a large city and see many careless and stupid situations. It is the silent killer especially when you are sleeping, you never wake up. Please be carefull and no question is ever dumb, that is why all of us are here to help each other. Good luck and enjoy your new conversion.
Perhaps while exhausting to the outside, you could design the exhaust duct as a heat exchanger and heat the bay that way. Has anyone ever come across a code that allows exhausting internally?
No no, you guys are right on. I won't mess around with this. I just want to know now if my oven/stove are safe to be using all day....we certainly do not want baby canary to keel over on us. That would....essentially ruin my life. Ok, so I need to come up with a way to vent this thing without having to cut a huge rectangle out of the side of the coach
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
If you look at page 6 part #19 is the exhaust vent that has to go out side a lot smaller in size to cut through the side of the coach . this is the same size vent that I put in
hope this helps
http://www.atwoodmobile.com/manuals/furnaces/MPD%2031230%20SP%203.08.pdf (http://www.atwoodmobile.com/manuals/furnaces/MPD%2031230%20SP%203.08.pdf)
dave
That's and interesting question about how long it is completely harmless to use a propane stove/oven in a confined space. A lot would depend on the amount of outside air infiltration you have. Do you use an exhaust fan while cooking? That would be bringing in outside air. The point that the CO alarm does not register any CO (I am guessing yours has a digital readout) is definitely a positive. I wonder if the gas company or the alarm manufacturer might have an opinion on the subject.
are you not primarily a pole sitter ? my coach is all electric.
maybe i missed it, what's the point of propane heat. I am not a "green" consumer, and my average electric bill is less the $100.00
is your stove a conventional sticks and bricks type ?
Ovens are not a continuous burn and use a controlled flame I thought all the RV ranges with ovens had a low oxygen shut off
I know ours (Attwood) would not light in the RV and it was because of the oxygen sensor in the gas valve and was a high dollar valve over 100 bucks.If you are worried about it the vent hoods are cheap we have one but Sonja never uses it unless it's hot inside
We have a 24" apartment BROWN stove/oven. It's simple but has a digital clock and timer and electronic ignition. Pretty happy with it. I might see if I can purchase an oxygen level monitor of some sort tho.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
When ever you have an open propane flame in a conversion living area it will need oxygen and will produce an amount of carbon monoxide so some fresh air will be needed at some point, a range hood or a ceiling bathroom exhaust fan will remove any fumes etc. Do not always rely upon a device to warn you be smart and do it right.
Sage advice. I do wish we could go all electric eventually but it really puts a cramp on boondocking and we are realizing we need boondocking capability more and more. So in answer to the pole question, yes currently we are somewhat tied to the pole but would like to transition to boonieville
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Yep total electric coaches suck for camping away from the crowds,the biggest mistake I think I ever made on the Eagle was going total electric.
Now on the MCI I am looking at 5 grand to replace all the batteries as 1 of the AGM batteries went bad and took out the other 5 of the 8-D's ???
in 24 hours boondocking, i can usually get by with 2 hours of generator run time, granted i avoid freezing temps. and visit Death Valley or similar in the winter.
were my needs different i would consider a Webasto/Espar solution.
I prefer charcoal for my steaks, but i do have a Webber Q too. :)
I removed the over the road heating/Air conditioning system since that is where I installed my 85gal gray water tank. I kept the big heat exchanger and mounted it fore and aft on the floor under the cabinets across from the side bath. I used two 14" radiator fans with thermostat to power it. Even though it is in the rear half, when it turns on, I can count to 10 and feel heat at the driver's seat.
I also have the Atwood 40,000btu propane furnace. It should be mounted above the floor in a cabinet with proper fresh air cutouts. My kitchen cabinets are raised 6" off the floor to facilitate the ducting underneath for the furnace. The 40,000btu works well for my 40ft'r with 4 outlets. Good Luck, TomC
Quote from: sledhead on September 16, 2015, 02:13:09 PM
If you look at page 6 part #19 is the exhaust vent that has to go out side a lot smaller in size to cut through the side of the coach . this is the same size vent that I put in
hope this helps
http://www.atwoodmobile.com/manuals/furnaces/MPD%2031230%20SP%203.08.pdf (http://www.atwoodmobile.com/manuals/furnaces/MPD%2031230%20SP%203.08.pdf)
dave
Dave, my unit isn't designed this way.
It requires me to cut a large rectangle to access it from the access door external to the coach. But, I could modify the design slightly to allow me to just access the panel from inside the luggage bay and just extend the exhaust pipe and dump it outside
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
One final question:
We don't yet have a battery bank, so can I use this to power the furnace? The furnace is rated at 9.8 amps (12v) 118 watts.
(https://busconversionmagazine.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fecx.images-amazon.com%2Fimages%2FI%2F31EEgny54aL.jpg&hash=acfa7bff1b994ba310c3382e148df11ebae417ac)
12 Volt 10 Amp DC Power Supply Adapter, Standard
Price: $21.99 & FREE Shipping
12 Volt 10 Amp DC Power Supply Adapter (120 Watts) - Standard
High quality power adapter
Input:100/240 Volts AC 50-60 Hz. Output: 12V DC 10 Amp (12V, 10A)
1 Year Warranty
Ok, battery and three stage charger are all wired, furnace is installed. Working on exhaust flue today and I'm all set. Everything works perfect. All this talk about CO and Low Oxygen levels when running a propane appliance got me thinking more about our oven/stove and I began researching articles (from more recognized sources like home energy and others) and there appears to be plenty of studies done that indicate it could very well be dangerous to operate a decent sized gas ventless gas appliance in such a small space as a bus. Obviously typical houses have so much cubic volume that even an all day cooking marathon would likely not allow the concentration of CO or complete consumption of Oxygen in the house. But in a bus that's tightly sealed (ours is), I really began to wonder how safe our oven really is. I'm not a safety nazi people. I now with flip flops, remove the guards on my angle grinders and use them without glasses, I snowboard the back country, so keep that in mind as I state that I really am not sure I want a propane stove in my bus now that doesn't vent. I can recall two occasions last winter when wifey was making batches of her famous granola to give away for Christmas and we both got headaches near the middle of the day. Didn't think anything of it at the time. Then another time during a cooking marathon the same happened and that time I had a feeling it was the oven (which is nearly brand new). When parked, I've never had my CO detector plugged in cause the oven was our only has appliance and I never thought of it as a danger since one is in nearly every home I've been to in Michigan and we never run our generator when on the pole. But today I think I'm gonna fire up the oven and see what levels are coming from the interior vent......
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
For a comprehensive test you'll need one of these :) just try it on you before you bring that little canary home. ;D
BY THE WAY CONGRATULATIONS !!!! DAD ;D ;D
http://www.walmart.com/ip/33606440?wmlspartner=wlpa&selectedSellerId=0&adid=22222222227029288803&wl0=&wl1=g&wl2=c&wl3=58012408751&wl4=&wl5=pla&wl6=98278734071&veh=sem (http://www.walmart.com/ip/33606440?wmlspartner=wlpa&selectedSellerId=0&adid=22222222227029288803&wl0=&wl1=g&wl2=c&wl3=58012408751&wl4=&wl5=pla&wl6=98278734071&veh=sem)
WOW, if both of you had headaches you were close to taking a long nap. Thats one of the places you get in trouble. You just want to sit down and close your eyes for a bit.
we have a magic vent above our cook top and open it when ever we cook and let the fan come on as it is needed . no oven just a large toaster oven we use outside
I have heard of people using the gas oven with the door partway open to heat up there rv ..... not a very good idea
propane is a great heating and cooking source if you respect it and use it right
ps did I here right dad ! hows mom and baby
dave
Quote from: sledhead on September 24, 2015, 02:46:27 PM
ps did I here right dad ! hows mom and baby
dave
I probably am jumping the gun here...just making sure ddad gets a few high fives...after all Mom will be getting all the attention later :)
Lol. Yes, she's a week away from her due date :) this will be our first.... And a little girl to boot :) hope she looks like her momma cause her momma is cute. Thanks for the congrats! Heather is doing great. She's active. Ran a 5k on her 17th week of pregnancy and has been swimming and riding bikes. She's amazing. Our coach was pretty crazy a few months ago with wires hanging everywhere and just really not a safe place for a kid. So I've remedied that over the past several months. Now it's almost done (ha). But certainly safe and plenty of places for Emma to play and move and sleep etc. anyway, the whole propane stove and co dealio is making me think twice now. Might just get a couple of induction cooktops like the shanks have
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
No matter if you're using a simple converter or an inverter, you should have at least one battery to buffer the voltage. I have two 8D deep cycle AGM batteries powering both my 12v needs and my 2,500 watt inverter. The inverter turns into a three stage battery charger when 120vac is present. My opinion-you can use the inverter for many things to keep from having to start the generator all the time. And with the three stage charger, this will enable the batteries to last the longest. I realize an inverter is a big expense, but it is also one of the most useful. Good Luck, TomC
Hi tom. I'll be investing in one eventually. For now I have a 3 stage charger on a 12 volt 1100 cranking amps battery and it's doing the job perfectly.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk