Hello everyone,
We got our bus April 2015 and pulled the seats and framed for washroom and set up the bedroom. We are now looking to get it ready to move into and are looking at heating options. There is some talk about propane creating a lot of moisture. True? We are thinking a small pellet stove may be a good option. We will be full time in either Edmonton or Anchorage area. Any advice would be greatly appreciated. Time and money are tight.
Thanks
Can you even get pellets in Anchorage ?
And yes condensation will definitely be a burden in the areas you mention.
Propane is not a condensation problem if the combustion exhausted outside. How about a diesel boiler; single fuel, pre-heat engine.
Lowes carries pellets in Achorage $6.49 for 40lbs. I would love to go diesel and stick to the single fuel but it seems everytime I look into it even for gene it becomes cost prohibitive for me.
Quote from: Lee Bradley on September 09, 2015, 02:40:44 PMPropane is not a condensation problem if the combustion exhausted outside. How about a diesel boiler; single fuel, pre-heat engine.
May or not be a big issue, but "solid fuel" tends to draw a lot of air in to burn -- then you have a lot of cold air being drawn in to the passenger compartment. It's also an issue with other kinds of heaters too so it's something that isn't a deal breaker, just something to be considered. If you can find a heating unit that draws combustion air in from the outside and also passes exhaust outside, you'll probably be well off.
On the other hand, solid fuel tends to heat up quickly (and Anchorage, etc. has plenty of cold weather) and puts out a lot of heat. That's probably a good feature.
There are so many factors to consider.
What about diesel and a few small radiators in the bus?
For example 82kbtu (they can be had for 300) > http://www.ebay.com/itm/ProHeat-M80-24V-Coolant-Heater-New-in-Box-NSN-2540200038601-/251873115364 (http://www.ebay.com/itm/ProHeat-M80-24V-Coolant-Heater-New-in-Box-NSN-2540200038601-/251873115364)
The Proheat looks possible I will research it. Maybe it could tie into the original system. Thanks
The stove we are looking at, the Enviro mini, has an air intake and exhaust. Yes, so many options so much to think about.
How did you insulate the bus? Did you pull the roof panels? Interior sidewall panels?
Insulation has a HUGE effect on heating (and cooling) requirements.
Factory insulation is poor for wintering in Canadian climates.
How are you planning to power the heat distribution? Plugged into a power pole? Solar/inverter/battery bank? Genset?
All have to be considered.
Anything North of Las Vegas needs heat, which explains snowbirds.
FWIW & HTH. . .
;)
Spent a lifetime in Alaska... I don't care what you heat with, or what you heat, realisticly on the coldest days you will get frost on the inside of your windows... that may not be propane or fuel related moisture, but it is wet :) and it condenses on windows.
For the past two (severe) winters, we burned wood in a small, home-built steel stove. This year we're buying a Morso Squirrel cast iron stove with secondary combustion. Not sure how it would work with pellets, but it's a wonder with wood. Not too big for a bus. Reasonable price.
Jim H.
Diesel fired boilers are not cheap to run in severe cold weather then you need a additive to keep the fuel from jelling it is good heat but like any heat it has draw backs
Jim, talk to us more about your wood heat. How toasty did it keep you? Where did you winter? What kind of temps did you experience? How much wood did you go through using a little stove in a bus?
I'm really curious because my wife really wants me to put a nice little wood stove with a viewing window in our new bus and I am curious as to how viable a source of heat it is when stationary?
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Scott, if I was going with a mobile wood stove ( and I am ) I would recommend > http://www.marinestove.com/index.htm (http://www.marinestove.com/index.htm)
It is what most of the Airstream people go with, with good results! You can order them with glass as well.
Notice the second photo is a counter level install.
(https://busconversionmagazine.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.marinestove.com%2Fbluecod_stainedglassdoor.jpg&hash=a424bf1e3d4ddc51b1f4a964b1c500a7541adf1b)
(https://busconversionmagazine.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.marinestove.com%2FCOD%2520GLASS.jpg&hash=874747124460422d0d1aaac44448d55a00f60abf)
Old geezer approved....
(https://busconversionmagazine.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.marinestove.com%2Fsalty_wink.jpg&hash=358a77896cf3bdc17ea8660d95943b2337192323)
Thought I'd chime in here. I lived in my bus in the mountains in California for 5 years near Yosemite. Temps down in the teens sometimes at night. First year I used propane, worked okay but got kinda expensive. I started looking for a wood stove small enough but they were hard to find. But, I found one at a church rummage sale. $35.00. It wasn't as small as I would have liked. Probably 24" long, 16" wide and 20" high. I ran the stack out a side window and up above the bus. Made a heat shield for the bottom and backside with 3/4" ply covered in 1/2" hardee board with slate tile on top. Trimmed in oak, it looked pretty good. I would load it up with wood at night, closed the air and dampner almost all the way until I had a real small burn and it would keep the bus toasty warm all night. I was burning about a 5 gal bucket of wood a night. Wood was free. No recirculating fan, just warm ambient heat. It wasn't enough heat to boil water but enough to get it pretty hot. Worked great. I would have ducted the stovepipe through the roof but I didn't want to cut a hole in the roof until I knew it worked and I liked it so bringing the pipe through the window was a good temporary fix and as we say in Naval Air, "There's never anything so permanent as a good temporary fix." I will run the stack through the roof eventually. Good thing I've noticed since the popularity of "Tiny Homes" there seems to be more choices in small wood stoves. Keep in mind, pellet stoves need power to run. Good luck with your decision, Regards, Phil
Scott, I do not have hard figures on how much wood we used, but with the homemade stove, it was more than I would like. Still nothing compared to what we used to burn heating a house.
We're in the mountains of western North Carolina. Had lots of nights in teens and a surprising number in low single digits. We stayed tolerably warm in spite of inadequate insulation the first winter. Last winter was better. Stove had to be tended at least once each night. More often on coldest nights.
I seriously considered the Little Cod, but I do not recommend it. Beautifully made and good folks to deal with, BUT they are not airtight, and they do not have secondary combustion. You will tend it far more often and generate large amounts of smoke and creosote. The Morso Squirrel is almost smokeless and will burn much longer on the same amount of wood. It has a window. Made in Norway. Substantially less expensive than a Marine Stove in porcelain. I will never install another stove that does not have secondary combustion.
All small stoves require small wood. Twelve inches is typical. Most people who sell wood do not want to cut it that short. I mostly cut my own.
Jim H.
there is no heat nicer then wood heat
dave
Jim, are you talking about this model with the secondary heat? > http://www.morsona.com/morsoe-2b-classic (http://www.morsona.com/morsoe-2b-classic)
No. I'm buying a 1410. Don't want the height of the 2B, and I don't need the added heat capacity. The 1410 has secondary combustion in a much shorter package.
This was a good article make sure to scroll down and read the user posts > http://www.livinlightly.com/off-grid-heat-small-wood-stoves/ (http://www.livinlightly.com/off-grid-heat-small-wood-stoves/)
As well as this > http://www.tinywoodstove.com/small-stove-reviews/ (http://www.tinywoodstove.com/small-stove-reviews/)
The Hobbit stove has a really nice window if you like watching your fire and it can be upgraded to use an outside air supply.
Good information on using outside air > http://salamanderstoves.com/documents/cold-air-intake.pdf (http://salamanderstoves.com/documents/cold-air-intake.pdf)
(https://busconversionmagazine.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fsalamanderstoves.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2014%2F06%2Fsmall-stoves-for-caravans-hobbit-stove-19.jpg&hash=6fe2bc963862edf4b322e172023858814322a92c)
My biggest concern is wanting to make sure it won't kill me in a panic stop.
Certain times of the year and areas in the west you are not allowed to burn any type wood stove that would be my luck -20 and they have a burn ban on wood stoves
I just visited all three of the websites Todd posted. I read all the articles and looked through the stoves. I was impressed with the look and functionality of the Morso wall mounted stoves...really cool concept, but I'm sold on the fresh combustion air intake on the Hobbit stoves...I think if we go this route, we would get a Hobbit stove. Question tho, do they have the catalytic extra combustion? It really does make a difference. We had one in a house before living in the bus and it was amazing how well that stove maintained constant heat and efficient burn.
Quote from: Dawgs on September 10, 2015, 06:15:26 AM
My biggest concern is wanting to make sure it won't kill me in a panic stop.
You have to bolt it down.
Scott, I'm installing dedicated air intake through floor for the Morso.
This is a interesting topic I can see a wood heater for you full timers parked but it makes no sense to me a wood heater in a RV that one uses like we do on the road.
I not a big fan of diesel fired boilers but they are more practical for us on the move with the engine pre heat,endless hot water and nice even heat driving down the road all from 1 source of a fuel supply and take up no space in a bus that comes at a premium
I just don't see a wood stove in my future using my bus as a RV you still need some source for hot water or a electric engine block heater unless you are not on the move in the winter
Quote from: Scott Bennett on September 10, 2015, 06:49:07 AM
I just visited all three of the websites Todd posted. I read all the articles and looked through the stoves. I was impressed with the look and functionality of the Moroso wall mounted stoves...really cool concept, but I'm sold on the fresh combustion air intake on the Hobbit stoves...I think if we go this route, we would get a Hobbit stove. Question tho, do they have the catalytic extra combustion? It really does make a difference. We had one in a house before living in the bus and it was amazing how well that stove maintained constant heat and efficient burn.
from what I understand ( not confirmed ) yes they do have a secondary combustion / glass soot wash feature. I like to be able to watch the fire with the honey so a glass is a must for me.
Quote from: Lostranger on September 10, 2015, 07:54:35 AM
You have to bolt it down.
Scott, I'm installing dedicated air intake through floor for the Morso.
I would be inclined to build a big fire and get the casting really hot and weld the legs to a substantial plate ( letting it cool very slowly ) and bolt the plate down.
Since they are marketed for sailboats and RV's I assumed they had bolt holes. Jim, I'm curious how that works out. Keep us updated. I think if I could confirm that the Hobbit has clean burn features or one could install a proper fresh air kit on the Morso, either one would be useful. Cliff, I totally get what you're saying. If you're on the move all the time or really using your coach as an RV it really doesn't make sense. Heather and I drive between 5 and 10,000 miles a year and we stay parked for months at a time so this would be perfect. Plus we are full timers so yeah it does make a difference I guess
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Scott I am just looking at the photo Todd posted seems like a lot of unused space just for a heater,then you just starting a family it would need a fence for a toddler believe me those stinkers can find a way get into everything and a wood stove will burn you.
Don't let Heather read this or the wood stove won't happen ;D I have feeling the little people coming into your life are going to be well protected
Clifford, we raised six children with wood heat and without a single serious burn. We now have four small grandchildren with two more on the way. Teaching little ones to respect the stove is not a problem. As for "wasted" space, the stove earns it's keep as much as any item in the bus with the possible exception of our Sundanzer refrigerator. We also have full size, front load washer and dryer, and I would ditch both of them before getting rid of the wood stove. To be fair, we do not have and do not want a dishwasher, ice maker or microwave.
You make an excellent point about difference in use. Our bus is not and never will be an RV. It truly is a motor home. The only travel related concession involving the wood stove is that we do not keep a fire on nights before we drive early. We then heat with a small, radiant propane device. When we drive, I remove the SS chimney cap and replace it with a flat, rubber cap that secures with a hose clamp.
Jim H.
Cliff, you are bringing up a good point though. With little kids running around a wood stove in the tight quarters of a bus might be asking for trouble. We might wait on that a little while....I am picking up a propane furnace and installing it in our coach over the next couple of weeks. I think the kids could be taught not to touch, but we might just hold off and see how things go.
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Jim, drive with fire!! some guy in Eastern Europe does it in his Volvo haha!
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Scott, they can be taught after raising 7 the little stinkers think anything pretty is ok to touch.Probably a wise choice on your part then you don't have a pissed off Grandpa and Grandma to deal with thinking it could have been prevented and that is worth a bunch ;D ;D ;D
My favorite installs are counter top level stoves, especially the tiny stoves. It would be much harder to accidentally burn yourself compared to a floor mounted unit. Also installing in the kitchen at counter level really does not eat up much space compared to a floor unit.
Since we are doing very limited RV type use, propane does all we need. However, I can see the need for other options for different uses. Has anyone looked at the Dickinson Marine line of stoves? They have diesel, propane, and multi-fuel solid fuel stoves.
http://dickinsonmarine.com/ (http://dickinsonmarine.com/)
Quote from: Lin on September 10, 2015, 12:04:38 PM
Since we are doing very limited RV type use, propane does all we need. However, I can see the need for other options for different uses. Has anyone looked at the Dickinson Marine line of stoves? They have diesel, propane, and multi-fuel solid fuel stoves.
http://dickinsonmarine.com/ (http://dickinsonmarine.com/)
Dickerson use cabin air as far as I know, but Wallas use an external air source / external exhaust , if I only had the money for one > http://www.wallas.fi/index.php?id=823 (http://www.wallas.fi/index.php?id=823)