It's prob been asked but I can't find it when leveling from front to rear do I put my blocks under the drive axle or the tag axle or both can't sleep with my head pointed down for a week thanks for the help
Depends on how high you are going. If it's just a 2x or so, just put them under the drive. If it's like 4-6 inches, then you'll want them under the tag
so it's not hanging on the air bags.
Well it's prob gonna b pretty high don't know for sure haven't got the bus in its spot yet so I need to do both thanks gumpy
I'm backing into the spot the rear will b downhill I was wondering if I could put wood under the tag axle and level the bus
Under the drives-the tags won't lift the bus until you get them high enough to bump against their stops. Good Luck, TomC
Wood under the tags isn't going to raise the bus. It has to be under the drives.
JC
Ok thanks Tom sounds like next time I need a level spot ;D
I have an air suspension leveling system. Each of the three leveling valves (2 in back and one in front) has three electric solenoid valves on them. One is normally open-that is the cut off valve, when activated shuts off the automatic leveling valve so you can use the manual valves. Then have two normally closed-one to add air, one to exhaust air. They work well for quickie leveling up to about 2 percent difference. Then I have to also use blocks. Makes leveling a snap for overnighting. Good Luck, TomC
All this air leveling is a bunch of hooey!! You just can't beat the hydraulic jacks. Just one of the things I don't like about my Prevost.
Who installs hydro levelers n tennessee ???
Hydraulic levelers are tricky to install when you don't have a chassis frame. Be careful. Using air suspension levelers are easy, quick, and can also be used when parked on a high crown road to level the bus. Good Luck, TomC
Quote from: Tnghost on August 30, 2015, 07:50:02 AM
Who installs hydro levelers n tennessee ???
guys with lots of money ;D
Quote from: bigred on August 30, 2015, 07:41:28 AM
All this air leveling is a bunch of hooey!! You just can't beat the hydraulic jacks. Just one of the things I don't like about my Prevost.
Disagree...........My leveling will not punch holes in a black top pad. My leveling doesn't impose any loads my chassis was not designed to handle. My leveling allows me to lower the coach so entry is easier. My leveling will not lift the read of the coach off the ground so I can get the excitement of the jacks folding under when the bus tries to go downhill because the wheels with brakes are suspended.
I had HWH hydraulic levelers installed on my 1997 Prevost they weren't cheap and I spent a week in Iowa in Jan ???
I had the same installed on the Eagle and the Trek has the same I wouldn't have anything else JMO even the MCI D is going to have a set of HWH when the time comes but I am not a huge fan of the Big Foot even if they are 1/2 the cost of a HWH system
Oh the joys of discussing leveling. I level with bottle jacks. Huge pain. Can't wait to ditch that method. Anyway, once, I was parked at a large church campmeeting (6,000 people attend this and they have 250 RV sites). I was parked with the rear of the coach at the edge of a downhill slope. Behind me were several tents in the tent camper section down the hill. Rear of bus was jacked high on bottle jacks, front of bus had its chin nearly touching the ground to be level. Overnight, it rained hard, the grassy soil became moist and soft, and the jacks sunk, leaned over and the bus slid off them backwards...and began to slide down the hill several inches on the wet grass before it finally ceased sliding....I went outside, looked at what happened...went back inside, changed my pants and then went outside to dig my jacks out. I hate airbag leveling because the coach bounces so much when someone is walking around inside or gets up in the middle of the night to use the restroom. If that could be resolved, I'd go air bag leveling in a heartbeat.
Scott are you trying to say don't use bottle jacks lol I have help dig buses out the tires sank also in a rain with air levelers,people need to use a little common sense no matter what type leveling system the have installed ;D now let's go to which is best the 3 point or the 4 point system that can interesting here
Im in the process of adding four hydraulic 14K aluminum legs to my 4106 but it required extensive additional structure to do it safely. Im not sure a bus that was not designed for hydraulic legs would be able to add them without a lot of work. Bending up your bus would be bad.
I'm very new to the ideas presented in this discussion but have been wondering how to use air. It's inexpensive, available and like TomC said uses what the unit was made to hold it up. I just made a sketch of how I think TomC has his plumbed and now understand how to do it. Thanks, TomC. In reference to the movement when aired and moving around in the coach. While probably not a good solution but I think if I were to let all the air out of the bags so the coach was sitting on stops, then add just enough air to make it level enough that there could be less movement as some of the coach may still be sitting solidly on bump stops. This would also make entry and exit from the coach easier. Just a thought, like I've said I'm new, so please let me know where my thinking is off. Thanks, Don
Even the coaches with the high $$ HWH Active Air system you have movement when you are off the stops I have friend with the system on Prevost it wobbles when you walk to bathroom
If you get one close to enough level you need to lift it off the stops a little I wouldn't worry about it
I have a simple air leveling system that just uses push/pull cables. Air leveling is useful but very limited. You will only get about 5-6 inches difference between the front and rear axle. This works fine for most commercial campgrounds where the sites are pretty close to level to begin with, but I have found that at many less developed sites, Forest Service campgrounds for example, you will still need another 6 inches of blocks somewhere.
If you are not on pavement, you need to take precautions no matter what system you are using. For bottle jacks or hydraulic levelers, I would consider putting a steel plate or some 1 inch plywood under the jacks to spread the weight. If your tires are on the ground, and there is any chance of rain, I would have plywood under the tires.
Maybe it's just me, but I haven't noticed any air bag coaches bouncing around when someone walks in them. Even if they did, I don't think it's something that would bother me. I had a class C once that would tilt when you got on the steps to get it. Even though it did it, it didn't bother me. I only put down the jacks if it needed to be levelled.
I plan on using three semi trailer landing legs for my bus's leveling, one at the front and two at the rear. I'll buy some from a wrecking yard, and weld or bolt them to the frame rails. They have a two-speed gearbox in them, and I'll have drive extensions running out to the side of the bus so I can easily crank them up or down. I may even be able to repurpose my old Craftsman 3/4 HP single-speed drill for this job - it has so much torque that it broke its handle completely off when it twisted out of my hands one time! I don't want the complexity and cost of hydraulic systems, so for a few hundred dollars (at most) this should work well for me.
John
Adding jacks , hydraulics , etc... just remember if you are lifting tires you are probable hyperextending your suspension and it will be hanging from the shock mounts.
I had this problem and I had to add travel limit chains so I did not kill my shocks when I lifted the bus off of the ground.
Clifford I'm a fan of the 4 point system myself just seems like it would be more stable. I have air levelling now but sure wouldn't mind having hydraulic. I like the hwh too. With their system any time it operates there are always 2 jacks moving together, so not much chance of twisting unless you fully extend the legs. Power gear would be a second choice.
I wouldn't say don't use bottle jacks, but I sure hate climbing under the bus all the time to set them up. Dirty work. But it's all I have at the moment. Air leveling does have its limits. I'm in a pretty nice RV park by most standards right now but the sites are not level. What really is the total travel of an air bag? If you had the rear of the coach on bumpstops and the front completely inflated?
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Scott, that's what I was talking about. If you measure your air bags fully extended and subtract the length of the bags fully deflated. You will have the max differential from front to back. My air bags have about a 5-6 inch rise. Hence, estimating that your bags are extended about half way, or 3 inches, when you travel, it means you can raise or lower either back or front about 3 inches-- total deferential is about 6 inches. Therefore if your axles were 30 feet apart, you could only level for an incline of about 1/5 inches per foot. Correct me if this does not make sense, but that's not a very serious incline.
That said, I find it very convenient to have the air leveling but must also carry blocks. If there is a 12 inch rise from back to front, I would much rather use 6 inches of blocks and 6 of air bags than have to use 12 inches of blocks!
6 inches out of an air leveling system would work for me in most cases so I may go that route and save me some dough 😜
I have airbag levelling and over the last 5 years I have needed to use blocks a total of twice.
Huggy has air leveling. she also has 4 corner hydraulic jacks.
I use the air to get her down and then set the hydraulic to steady her.
Have to get her down low because the lady in charge is short.
the hydraulic came in handy when i had a busted tire on I 85.
The tire truck did not have a jack that would get under the front axle, so i raised the front with the
hydraulic to get the front axle up enough for him to change the tire.
uncle ned
Quote from: uncle ned on August 30, 2015, 06:14:53 PM
Huggy has air leveling. she also has 4 corner hydraulic jacks.
I use the air to get her down and then set the hydraulic to steady her.
Have to get her down low because the lady in charge is short.
the hydraulic came in handy when i had a busted tire on I 85.
The tire truck did not have a jack that would get under the front axle, so i raised the front with the
hydraulic to get the front axle up enough for him to change the tire.
uncle ned
uncle ned, any flexing when you deploy the hydraulic jacks? I would be interested to see photos of how you attached them if you have any. thanks!
If I'm staying more then 2 days in one spot, I'll level the bus with blocks then exhaust all the air out of the air bags to lower the bus down. Then it is resting on the rubber blocks. But funny-it bounces differently when bottomed out then with air in the air bags. When bottomed out, when someone is walking in the bus, it vibrates much faster than when it is pumped up. More solid, I guess. Good Luck, TomC
Thanks for all the replies guys now to find someone to install me something. It's funny no 1 has never installed something on my bus already guess they left me something to do 😆
My hydraulic jacks fold up to the rear, safety reason i think so if you try to drive off they just fold up.
I have never felt any twisting of the coach that it does not have going down the road.
I can pick one wheel off the ground to change a tire, might twist a little but has not hurt any thing in the 12 years that i have had them.
the door moves a little if you have the pass. front off the ground.
not much on pictures but I plan on being a Arcadia this year.
I want to talk to John Silvers about a series 50.
I see that the air bags on the 06 is different than a 04. I had mine cutting to far and rubbed a hole in the back on on the drivers side.
had to make some good stops to stop from going to far.
uncle ned
Who installs air leveling system
Ned, are you going to be showing off those levelers at the October NonRally ?
So....what was the consensus on three or four jacks and why?
Bruce
Quote from: PRZNBUS on September 01, 2015, 05:19:54 AM
So....what was the consensus on three or four jacks and why?
Bruce
Just a guess but it depends on how flexible your bus is .
Three jacks forms a triangle so there is less side to side loading on your shell so less chance of twisting your bus, but there is all so less opportunity to deal with uneven terrain.
Four jacks gives you more capability to deal with uneven terrain, would give you a more stable vehicle (when on jacks), but if you were not careful in your leveling process, could induce a lot of twist force.
I went with four but only after some substantial reinforcements.
As far as installing an air leveling system it should be as easy as replacing your (3?) pneumatic ride height valves with two way pneumatic solenoid valves and running wires up to the dash to individually control them.
So it shouldn't cost me an arm and a leg then ;D
Quote from: Tnghost on September 01, 2015, 05:42:18 AM
So it shouldn't cost me an arm and a leg then ;D
I have bought a lot of 12/24vdc 2 way solenoid valves from ebay / surplus around $12 each.
You would be defeating your bus automatic ride height system but you would be gaining the ability to manually control your ride height.
I am making the extra effort of running the air lines from the air bags to the dash so I can have a manual momentary valve and a pressure gauge for each corner of the bus.
Yeah I get what ur saying and airing the bus up to drive it wouldn't bother me I'm just not very mechanical handy with wood but not drive train
Quote from: Tnghost on September 01, 2015, 07:00:23 AM
Yeah I get what ur saying and airing the bus up to drive it wouldn't bother me I'm just not very mechanical handy with wood but not drive train
Another option on an installer would be your local shop that installs air ride suspensions for cars, that is if there is not a bus specific shop around. I had a budy that did nothing but ridetech.com installs and a bus would be a very basic job for him.
Ok thanks for the info sounds more in my budget than hydro jacks for now I got a friend who works on semis shouldn't b no prob fur him to install me sumthing or another
Can I thread drift a little? Two thoughts,
1. When you are driving your coach in and out of parking lots with grades or bumps or uneven terrain, you are twisting it a bit. Not gonna kill it in my opinion to have four jacks. When I level my coach, if I can't close the door, I know I need to adjust it a little lol.
2. In terms of setting coach up for air leveling, I would be interested to know if I could run the bags at less PSI and lower the coach while on the hwy. Would it be more stable? or less stable because of the squishy airbags??
Quote from: Scott Bennett on September 01, 2015, 07:53:28 AM
Can I thread drift a little? Two thoughts,
1. When you are driving your coach in and out of parking lots with grades or bumps or uneven terrain, you are twisting it a bit. Not gonna kill it in my opinion to have four jacks. When I level my coach, if I can't close the door, I know I need to adjust it a little lol.
2. In terms of setting coach up for air leveling, I would be interested to know if I could run the bags at less PSI and lower the coach while on the hwy. Would it be more stable? or less stable because of the squishy airbags??
1. when you are driving you are not loading the shell with the weight of the "sprung" suspension, so if you lift your tires your shell is taking a lot more weight.
2. Scott, if you have 6" of total suspension travel and your normal driving height is say 3" off of the stops and you go lower to say 1.5" off of the stops you are going to beat the crap out of your bus by hitting the stops all the time.. you really would not get that much out of it.
Kyle I always us them at Palmetto cove. Where we park I can drop the front down on the stops and keep the back high so my shor legged boss can get in and out.
Just wonder if I will have the same parking buddy now that he is a NEWELL owner. He might park over on the high dollar side. LOL
uncle ned
Short legged boss
fat fingered
uncle ned
We went for simplicity(in other words out of budget) I have 10x10 x1 1/2 inch blocks that stack like Lego's that we place under the buses jacking points. When we arrive at our destination we park, place the blocks and drop the suspension via 3 valves we had installed while changing the bags. When we leave the site, we air up the bus, drive forward, pick up the blocks and go home. Takes all of 2 mins to install, and less to remove. Bus is stable and solid while parked.
I figure it this way-there's a good reason the engineers used 3 leveling valves on the original design. I would keep with that design.
I have three leveling valves with manual over ride. I haven't ever had the need for four. Good Luck, TomC
Ok. Makes sense, but has anyone twisted their coach permanently and caused issues? The triangle design works, but when I jack up one side under the jack point, it just lifts the other side anyway which if not supported seems to me to encourage the coach to want to twist anyway??
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Nope haven't twisted ours and we have 4 corner air leveling. If it is ever needed we also carry the yellow stackables. Coach doesn't bounce or move all over. I can add or reduce air to all corners or just one at a time. Bags stay up and don't lose any air. I just reset to 90 PSI in the front and 80 in the rear when driving. I can adjust if needed on crazy turns but haven't had to. The coach does not bend in half or sag in the middle. The front door does not stick closed. Simple system. Sure would love to have the hydraulic system with 4 legs but to much money for this cowboy to put out... ;D
Dave
The 3 point leveling system on a bus was for driving the 3 point system will adjust faster when traveling, there is no way it will twist the bus or Prevost,MCI,VanHool would not have used a system design by their engineers on the motor home chassis
Lol even Eagle gave it a try with the 4 corner air bag leveling on their motor home chassis that didn't work out too good
best money I spent ......on my 4 corner leveling system easy peasy to use with zero problems in 10 years
no air leaks on the air bags at all
4 push / pull air valves with air gauges .... that's it
dave
They tried the 3 point leveling system on Rv's with slides for a few years that didn't work and gave slides a bad rap
Huggys air leveling system was made by Red Rideout i think. It has a road and park relay. on the road it uses the standard valves.
When parked you can add or release air from either end. You can also use the park side on the road.
Had my steering cutting to sharp and rubbed a rear-front bag and it blew going down the road.
used the hydraulic jack to raise that side and place a block to level the coach and put it on park and leveled the it up
and away home we went. rode a little rough but not stuck by the side of the road.
Also used the hydraulic jack to jack it up and replace the air bag,beats carrying around all the jacks.
uncle ned
Quote from: uncle ned on September 01, 2015, 08:42:42 AM
Kyle I always us them at Palmetto cove. Where we park I can drop the front down on the stops and keep the back high so my shor legged boss can get in and out.
Just wonder if I will have the same parking buddy now that he is a NEWELL owner. He might park over on the high dollar side. LOL
uncle ned
I'm gonna want 50A electrical service, so, if a spot is available on the high dollar side, that is where I'm gonna be. :o
Hopefully we'll still be within walking distance! ;D