I'm not really into skoolies, but I can't help but wonder if these new school buses will make pretty decent looking conversions sometime down the road when they are selling for $5000?
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I hear plenty of horror stories about the unreliability of new school buses' electronics. Like so many vehicles these days they have CANBUS, great when it works but a nightmare to troubleshoot when the electrons don't want to cooperate. Maybe because school buses these days are built as cheaply as possible, the electronics are the first to suffer? Some school districts in CA are still running old Crowns, older than mine, because they are more dependable and economical than their newer buses.
I'm not impressed with the flimsy plastic dash panels and instrument clusters of new International/Amtran and Thomas school buses. I guess this doesn't matter if they're designed for only a fifteen year lifespan and a few hundred thousand miles.
Get a Crown or Gillig - handbuilt, tough, simple, reliable, good to drive, what's not to like? (Just kidding!)
John
I don't particulately like them. I've often wondered if 20/30 years from now someone will see one of them, or todays cars and say "what a cool looking car/bus". Somehow I don't think so
True, definitely no "cool classic" factor, but could it be turned into something similar?
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Freightliner owns Thomas bus. The only thing about skoolies is that they are usually only 96" wide and many times limited on headroom. That Thomas pictured at the top is a good looking bus and since it uses the Freightliner front with Cummins engine, should not be hard to service. The nice thing, Thomas makes some really short versions of this skoolie.
I know sacrilege what I'm a going to say. But-I'm think about buying a shorty Class C for weekend quicky trips. I have my eye on a Lazy Daze 23ft rear king. Huge windows (my wife and I like to see out), and you see lots of older Lazy Daze still on the road. I would buy one if they start using the Ford Transit front with the 5 cylinder Diesel. Good Luck, TomC
I think this is a Thomas bus. I really like the look of them compared to the older traditional school bus. I think this would be a really interesting bus if they started building them 102" wide with a high roof. Maintaining the mechanicals on it would be easy compared to a coach.
Maintaining the mechanicals on any truck is easier then on a bus. This is why I'm making my truck conversion on my 1985 Kenworth 90" Aerodyne cabover. When you tilt the cab, you have overhead access to the complete engine and transmission. And-you only have to tilt the cab for major engine work, and to change the air cleaner. For changing oil, oil filter, fuel filters, water filter, transmission filter, checking the oil on the engine and transmission, checking the water in the radiator, there are access doors-and I can wash the windshield while standing on the ground. From driving nothing but cabovers for 21 years, I can tell you they are much more convenient then any conventional. With a conventional, everytime you need to check anything, up comes the hood-including washing the windshield-which requires a long handle squeegee or climb up on the front tire. And on a conventional truck, to work on the clutch and transmission requires crawling underneath the truck. Cabovers are high enough that unless you crash into another truck or bus, will be above the car or pickup. Give me a cabover everytime. Good Luck, TomC
I've often wondered this as well.. I'm just not a fan of the way schoolies look, with the flimsy panels and rivets everywhere.
I'm on the schoolie groups and the discussion of "real" bus v's schoolies comes up a lot..
I have to correct people constantly who claim that transit and highway units are only designed for 10 years and limited miles and that they dont fall apart driving around town. (funny they never counter answer)..
But as schoolies are SOOO cheap its worth considering these days!
How about this one from another board?
http://www.rvnetwork.com/index.php?showtopic=119680#entry797246 (http://www.rvnetwork.com/index.php?showtopic=119680#entry797246)
Keep on busin and truckin
Is that second picture supposed to be a skoolie? Looks like a Super C. Our first bus was a skoolie-- a Superior Super Cruiser with flat front, rear engine and basement bays. It worked fine as a conversion. Obviously Crowns are great conversion platforms too.
The older Crown Supercoach ex schoolie would work great, but one would have to work at the Bus Conversion. I lived in a Crown 40 foot 3 axle 10 wheeler (VIN 37317) for a number of years slowing doing the conversion thing.
The problem with Crowns is that they are getting more and more rare and long in the tooth. No early models since about 1990-91 or so? All the few HD parts I required were just a short stop away at the HD truck parts auto store.
The coach itself was superb. If you can find one and learn up on the platform, a Crown Supercoach would make a great Bus Conversion. You would have to work at it, but the results would be worth it. Time marches on and stuff.
It's certainly possible to do a good conversion of a mid-engine Crown or Gillig, but it's much more difficult to find space for all the needed tanks/batteries/generator/etc that most conversions need. Several folk have done so and produced nice conversions, but for me the extra work wasn't worth it so I took the easy way out and bought a pusher Crown. I hope I have the best of both worlds! A FE bus, either flat-front or dog-nose, was out of the question, not least because there's a driveshaft running all the way back taking space that I need for tanks and storage. Besides, they're too darn noisy - after 25 miles in a FE Amtran Genesis my ears were ringing!
John
Lin, the second one isn't a skoolie but it has a similar shape and body line. Just an idea of what you might be able to turn the new aerodynamic skoolies into
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Quote from: Iceni John on August 29, 2015, 10:18:29 PM
I'm not impressed with the flimsy plastic dash panels and instrument clusters of new International/Amtran and Thomas school buses. I guess this doesn't matter if they're designed for only a fifteen year lifespan and a few hundred thousand miles.
How many years should schools expect to get out of school buses? 15 years for something that is run 200+ days a year stopping and starting all day long seems pretty good to me. They all rust out around here anyhow from the road salt. The federal government pays to replace transit buses every 12 years.
Crown apparently had a good thing going for areas without road salt, but schools apparently decided that buying a cheap bus more often was the better way to go.
You also have to remember that that some skoolies are built for other applications other than hauling little monsters to and from school. So those may be better taken care of. The cover story in the current magazine fits that bill. The BLUE BIRD VISION has a sharp look to it. Unlike the THOMAS C2 and IC version, BLUEBIRD builds it chassis exclusively for bus use in the type C
On the other hand, the BLUEBIRD ALL AMERICAN can trace it's heritage back to the original WANDERLODGE.
Many advantages to skoolies. They are built on a modified truck chassis. Service is much easier and cheaper then on a rear engine bus. Thomas being owned by Daimler Trucks North America, basically uses Freightliner front and chassis. Blue Bird has their own chassis, so servicing and parts might be more expensive. Navistar also makes skoolies. Good Luck, TomC
They are pretty tough if you see what they go through on the rural dirt roads of michigan....and snow and ice. They are tough trucks in my opinion. You can slice em and dice em pretty much as you wish and they will still drive down the road because they are sitting on a truck frame. Near home for us in michigan, they actually remove the roof and sides down to just below where the windows would have been and use them to haul watermelons. Cool.
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^^^ Exactly the same in NC.
Excellent topic and answers. Thank you. Also consider that the older Crown Supercoaches seemed to be a South West Coast area thing. Mostly CA. Some in the few western states. All would have been on salt free or nearly so conditions.
If I had to do it again, and I might, the sweet spot for a used Crown would be around the 1985 model year or so. Made in LA CA during the peak days. Custom high grade steel frame, aluminum body, 4130 roll bars every 19" in the roof. Very strong.
A 1985 35 footer will weigh about 23,000--24,000# stripped. They strengthened the body and frame in about 1975-76 or so. Earlier lighter. Later heavier. I am not sure when Crown went to computerized Detroit engines. Earlier had MUI diesels.
The mill rests on its left side at about a 70 degree angle or so in the middle of the coach under the floor. The big radiator is behind the driver on the side. Options of hydraulic motor or big twin belt fan. Mine had TRW power assist steering. Great!
In 1970, the factory guarantee was 20 years and 200,000 miles bumper to bumper, parts and labor. The flat glass windshield version was a better choice. White painted roofs cooler. The Detroit powered models were OK but are too slow for a hot RV.
If you like shifting gears, the infamous 10 speed Roadranger sized to your needs. A nice warmed up Big Cam Cummins. The side radiator will support about 400 hp continuously and over 500-600 HP intermediately. The HT740 is also a good choice.
Jake Brake. All had huge air brakes. The two axle 35 footer might be a better choice. Leaf springs. Air bags doable. The only downside is the limited 75" headroom. I am 6'1" and had no problems. Some raise the roof. The concern is lack of storage space.
I was going to mount the water tanks inside the coach over top the small wheel wells. Others decide upon less capacity and fit it all under the floor. Better. There is so much one needs to know about Crowns before buying. I paid $3000 for mine in 2001. PEM me.
This is probably the only school bus I'd want.
Bruce
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Is that real or a doctored photo? Regardless, it certainly would attract attention.
It is a doctored picture. That would be way too long.
I had a feeling it was a composite. But you never know if someone built a shorter version like that.
Along those lines, I saw where a guy made a fifth wheel trailer out of a Crown bus. Was interesting looking. Good Luck, TomC
Quote from: TomC on September 01, 2015, 09:07:07 PM
Along those lines, I saw where a guy made a fifth wheel trailer out of a Crown bus. Was interesting looking. Good Luck, TomC
Oh, the horror.
It's like cutting the head off an animal and nailing it to a wall - oh wait, people actually do that. Never mind.
Did it still have an engine in the middle? It could have been the world's first self-propelled fifth-wheel trailer.
John
I'm pretty fond of mine:
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/4r7o6j34oySEC3PRkQj7ZjEcrqS6-vk8N8QevXxgcFjdZ2gH2e81d9HfLS7pNsQCrrhKAN-FgkSu-kCcTgWX-Qp9WgQmsym0nvZwm42hK6zYswLvU0RjNhqZmtmu91STHM7CyW8yyp_W7HLUK4fPuozJXAEA7LT7n1yPJF0RjCsN2XBa6yQVq6Z3xxCbL_X-MtLEOMAM3iOSK_PfejnhoCnBPhTNU89ElbUx2VkxiNsme9rT3fWYDe-UKFShXvgtzcM1YDdNrJjDSUPJUgLAdjyPjI0UXV9WIwFzZkeCC3UNJ6BbI5OeeJKoCjn4cVad6-gsacnOsZYW9peUGk1C3q8MJGAdWsGXk0AkaS7KA-RNm7_LWdaLV5FpGhTPtDIZ18_E2beliAUVqaDQdqCXEkPrUHu3xlYj_n2pKe16TBcDNg4BmU77r7qFiNC_30NzsFg-QdK043A2TxrAr3Q20ozQMa8_9El8dYUeJiLs3X3QxQcAwm75dZMPRhSPFieHHvb-TGfMuvkkgMl5YEMlFPwR=w1613-h909-no)
I have a schoolbus. It's a 20 year old Carpenter with international chassis, dt466 and only 96,000 miles! Coming to the end of my single handed conversion.
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Wow! Doing a bus conversion is a lot of work even when using two hands.
Sharp looking bus you have there Opus!!
Quote from: Lin on September 16, 2015, 01:07:45 PM
Wow! Doing a bus conversion is a lot of work even when using two hands.
Lol. I know. I've been working on this since November. As my work is a bit seasonal at the moment, I spent the whole summer in 100+F working on it. I have to do the plumbing and window blinds. After that and a shower curtain, the bus is complete!
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After 5 years we are still renovating our coach. It's a forever process. Fun hobby tho.
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Quote from: Zephod on September 16, 2015, 04:44:29 PM
Lol. I know. I've been working on this since November. As my work is a bit seasonal at the moment, I spent the whole summer in 100+F working on it. I have to do the plumbing and window blinds. After that and a shower curtain, the bus is complete!
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It's taken me almost seven years to get just the "life support" systems completed, i.e. water, plumbing, waste tanks, propane, solar panels, house batteries, solar charge controllers/inverter/switches/cabling/etc, and some other bus upgrade/repair jobs such as fixing my Jakes. I haven't even started building the interior yet! I'm hoping that will be the easiest part of the whole process. Most conversions are multi-year projects, if they get finished at all! I can't imagine my bus will ever be "complete" - I'll always find something more to do!
John
Quote from: Iceni John on September 16, 2015, 08:31:11 PMIt's taken me almost seven years to get just the "life support" systems completed, i.e. water, plumbing, waste tanks, propane, solar panels, house batteries, solar charge controllers/inverter/switches/cabling/etc, and some other bus upgrade/repair jobs such as fixing my Jakes. I haven't even started building the interior yet! I'm hoping that will be the easiest part of the whole process. Most conversions are multi-year projects, if they get finished at all! I can't imagine my bus will ever be "complete" - I'll always find something more to do! John
To the inevitable question, I reply "I'm getting close but I have 'three finished's' -- one is when I have a place to sleep, a place to cook and eat, a bathroom with shower, and it rolls down the road; two is when there are curtains and shades in the windows and carpet on the floors, and three is when I die".
I think the time eating factor for most conversions is getting BUS components working. This is why we went for a current "cvi"bus ,more costly yes ,less head aches also yes. Getting any project car boat bus to a usable state can take the drive of the dream and crush it. Many unfinished projects can be had cheap.
We set a 1 yr goal to use ours and we left home after having the bus 10 months ,done no but usable with most systems complete. Need cupboard doors and finish trim mainly. 4500 miles in 35 days with no issues. A family member has a absolutely beautiful eagle on the inside that he got non running and it still is not road worthy.
To me it is easier to get to the light at the end of the tunnel in you can drive there.
Chuck
I have the interior almost completed. Water tanks and plumbing still to do. Batteries non existent. I'm probably going to have one and a generator.
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Actually ,I think the Blue Bird pushers would make a better candidate. Most of these that are on the retirement list have Cat engines .South Carolina and a lot of other states have bunches of these things as do a lot of other states .Not so many in North Carolina though .
Quote from: bigred on September 17, 2015, 04:48:37 PM
Actually ,I think the Blue Bird pushers would make a better candidate. Most of these that are on the retirement list have Cat engines .South Carolina and a lot of other states have bunches of these things as do a lot of other states .Not so many in North Carolina though .
South Carolina keeps their busses for 30 years. I've seen a lot broken down. In fact, the school I was working in today had to have two runs with the farm bus because one had broken down.
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Used to be a one horse transportation supervisor / mechanic in the 90's. Had one of the last old round body style crowns, but it was rear engine not mid engine. Had full compartments underneath. 3208 / 250 hp cat with Allison. Got up and down the road OK by school bus standards. Drove great. If you could find one it would make a nice conversion.
I know of a traditional mid engine crown her locally (Spokane WA) that could be purchased. Strong engine (6-71T w/ Allison), straight body, but has some glass damage due to vandalism.
I always thought that if I ever did a schoolie I would look for an old Gillig school bus. Very well built transit style, body panels easy to replace (mostly flat sheet screwed in place), off the shelf truck drive train so easily updateable, full under compartments.
The last new bus I bought in the 90's was a Thomas rear engine transit, 250hp cat / Allison. It sat more students than the Crown so was the trip bus, but its regular in district route was one that had extreme road grades. Consequently I spec'd the bus with a two speed rear end that was only shiftable when the bus was parked. Low side for in district, high side for trips. Worked great. Might be a thought for folks with lower hp that travel in mountainous areas but then want to be able to easily cruise in the flatlands. :)
Ditto with the Crown Supercoach. Since this is my third (3rd) post on this subject one can guess I love ... and loved Crowns. Being a gear head, mine had the infamous (famous?) RTO910 Fuller 10 speed Roadranger. Would do at least 80 mph.
Non turbo-ed Small Cam 250hp 855 inch Cummings. At 55 mph, we had a choice of 8th, 9th or 10th. A gear for every situation. Plus lots of gears you never needed, but it was so much fun to play truck driver and row through every one. Six times to 35 mph!
Five times just crossing a narrow side street. Very easy to keep the mighty small Cummins at 1500, the apparent sweet spot. First gear was good for about 2 feet. Then you progressively up shifted. More like shifting a dirt bike than a big truck tranny.
About 2 inches of shifter movement. Less than 3 pounds of shifter effort. Snick, snick, snick. Had lots of grease zerts on the shift rod. Again, in my humble view, (?) try to find about a 1985 model year with the Cummings and 10 speed. Also gotta have that Jake.
Crowns forever. Yep ... might do another one! Very fun indeed.
Quote from: easystreet on September 18, 2015, 10:16:08 PM
Used to be a one horse transportation supervisor / mechanic in the 90's. Had one of the last old round body style crowns, but it was rear engine not mid engine. Had full compartments underneath. 3208 / 250 hp cat with Allison. Got up and down the road OK by school bus standards. Drove great. If you could find one it would make a nice conversion.
I know of a traditional mid engine crown her locally (Spokane WA) that could be purchased. Strong engine (6-71T w/ Allison), straight body, but has some glass damage due to vandalism.
I always thought that if I ever did a schoolie I would look for an old Gillig school bus. Very well built transit style, body panels easy to replace (mostly flat sheet screwed in place), off the shelf truck drive train so easily updateable, full under compartments.
The last new bus I bought in the 90's was a Thomas rear engine transit, 250hp cat / Allison. It sat more students than the Crown so was the trip bus, but its regular in district route was one that had extreme road grades. Consequently I spec'd the bus with a two speed rear end that was only shiftable when the bus was parked. Low side for in district, high side for trips. Worked great. Might be a thought for folks with lower hp that travel in mountainous areas but then want to be able to easily cruise in the flatlands. :)
Or get a Crown like mine - rear engine, so lots of space underneath for everything, plus a big pass-through storage bay for Other Stuff (we all have lots of that), built like a Crown but looks like something newer. It still looks modern even now - apparently MIT had some say in the design of the front and rear, but everything in the middle is pure Crown. With a 6V92 and HT740 it drives more like a MC9 than a school bus, lots of power to get up the hills and a Jake to make fun noises coming down. It's a blast to drive, and I think it will be a great conversion when it's finally done. Here's a short vid of us Crown Coach Junkies on our annual Memorial Day Anti-CARB get-together as we left our host's house to go hooning around Phelan CA - mine's the third: https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=392632724194941 (https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=392632724194941)
John
PS - another reason to buy a Crown: you can drive it with the door open, very pleasant in warm weather (at least, until you drive through a swarm of bees . . .)
Everytime I watch that video of those buses I smile. Good stuff right there
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Some of the big tandem axle Crown's had 10spds in them. The skilled driver's would skip shift. Start in 3rd, shift to 5th, pull up the button shift to 7th then go through the rest of the gears. When I drove my 13spd and was empty (my empty weight was 46,000lbs) I would start in 2nd, shift to 4th pull up the button, shift to 6th then go through the gears. A Roadranger transmission doesn't care how you shift it as long as you synchronize the rpms-it isn't like a motorcycle transmission that you have to go through the gears. Good Luck, TomC
Sorry for the confusion but then again I confuse easily. My kissing cousin long ago and far way also drove a Crown 10 wheeler with the Roadranger, only hers had the 671T engine. Also she had the RT version and not the RTO. Had a slightly different shift pattern. Forth and fifth and ninth and tenth were reversed. No big deal.
She got to drive "The Banana Boat 2" when I visited her family outside of Redding CA. She hadn't shifted a Roadranger in many years. Guess what? Muscle memory won easily. Did a 99% job the very first row through. She looked at me and smiled. Like a kid in a candy shop. Her ride was in Bishop CA where she also was a teacher.
When I was tired or bored, I shifted like already stated. Two, four, button up, six, seven, eight, then ninth which was good for about 66 mph. Rarely used 10th, the .22% overdrive. Usually ran right at 55 mph. Fuel mileage with the 10 wheeler was right at 10.5 mpg. Not bad at all. But ... kinda slow going up 6% grades at 45 mph @ 90% foot.
When I stared driving truck for years I drove a B Model Mack quadraplex. When I got bored I do 1st to 5th to 15th to 20th. But it had to be pointed down a steep hill....LOL!