Pulling out of Glacier NP yesterday and here were the symptoms -
First - noticed a good amount of black smoke coming out the tailpipe at the bottom of third gear. Shifted into second to up the RPMs and it cleared up.
Second - noticed black smoke at every gear change, a bit more than a puff.
Third - because I was paying attention at this point, bus seemed to be running a little rougher than normal. If I wasn't paying attention I may not have noticed
Fourth - Bus seemed a little warmer than normal. This may very well be my gauge (loose ground) and it was over 90 degrees but it did seem slightly warmer.
Fifth - when I opened the engine bay there was soot covering the air intake plumbing and area around that passenger side of the engine bay
I've got an Eagle 10s and the engine is a silver 692TA mechanical. Its got the larger injectors tuned to 350hp
My assumption is a loose exahaust pipe creating an exhaust leak preventing the Turbo (newly rebuilt) from spinning up to speed.
Any feedback you guys can provide would certainly be helpful. I'm sure Ill have more questions by the end of the day.
Thanks.
-Sean
Momentarily hold a rag or towel over exhaust pipe outlet and look for any leaks around pipes and connections. With engine off,access the inside of turbo by disconnecting easiest pipe and check if vanes turn easily. Check exhaust side of turbo and look for damaged vanes.
Probably broke the flange off the exhaust pipe at the wye,isn't it a front mount turbo
Your symptoms sound like mine this past spring when I noticed a ton of black smoke on acceleration, plus more exhaust noise. After stopping, found the engine compartment to be somewhat sooty. Fortunately I was headed to a Bus Nut rally where I got a lot of advice and help. The flange coming out of my turbo on the exhaust side had cracked. Rust and age. I was lucky that a used replacement was not too far away. Not cheap either, but completely necessary.
Good luck!
Mike in GA
Thanks Guys!
I'm hoping that a cracked exhaust pipe or loose flange is all it is. I'm headed to Missoula this afternoon. I should have enough resources there to get it apart and see what's wrong.
I'm gonna drop the bullfrog and baby it into Missoula this afternoon. I'm going to take a look before I leave to make sure nothing major is damaged and then tighten up what I can before I go. Ill try and post some pictures later.
-Sean
If the pipe is in good shape and the flange broke just weld another flange on, the pipe with the bellows is a 500+$ pipe
Quote from: luvrbus on August 27, 2015, 06:49:49 AMIf the pipe is in good shape and the flange broke just weld another flange on, the pipe with the bellows is a 500+$ pipe
Cliff - you don't have one laying around your garage you need to get rid of for cost of shipping do you?
;D
Just Kidding
I could have find out if the pipe is broken and post a photo ;D
I probably have the turbo outlet pipe and flange.
So here is the leak -
(https://busconversionmagazine.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimages.tapatalk-cdn.com%2F15%2F08%2F27%2Fb773cf6e121b98eba93faf911558f3e3.jpg&hash=2ecdc77b9d457a14b7548c607b1adf14d54b07ae)
You can see the black from the exhaust.
Here is a shot of the whole assembly-
(https://busconversionmagazine.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimages.tapatalk-cdn.com%2F15%2F08%2F27%2F8f1f8b81174b2eee32234c0624a12845.jpg&hash=7ed5a91a268cb95c5e9639c5c2ca91dc268e7d8b)
Is there a trick to getting the clamp off? Do I just need to man up on it with a screwdriver and hammer?
-Sean
K - I've got the clamps off.
I can't visibly see a crack anywhere. Although I cannot remove the pipe completely without removing the whole T-assembly. And Im not attempting that here in the Lowes parking lot.
I'm going to grab 2 new clamps and see if that doesn't help.
Is there any kind of high temp sealent for these joints?
Thanks again.
-Sean
No sealant. Just the pressure from the clamp. Can you loosten the other end of that pipe to make sure you get a good mate on that end when you tighten it back up? Looks just like the clamp on my pickumup. If the ends dont mate up just right it could be hard to get it to seal.
Derrick,
I loosened both sides. Can't get the pipe off without complete disassembly.
Ill do my best to make sure its properly seated.
Are these V-band clamps the best clamps to use? Or is there a better type for this application?
Any specific brand better than another?
Thanks again.
-Sean
Rather than loosening the T, I loosen the manifold.
You can coat the inside of the clamp or the surface where the clamp rides with antiseize. It will help to allow everything to draw up nice and allow clamp to seat and shift as it tightens. Those clamps work pretty nice unless there is a misalignment that won't change when tightening clamps. You need to see how the other end of the pipe is attached to manifold. To seal properly you may need to loosen the other end also. You can use the antiseize on the old clamps also. They should be reusable, unless you snap off the bolt.
V band clamps ,use a muffler sealant on the flange it won't hurt anything,but that is not a big enough leak to cause you problems fwiw,check the manifolds and gaskets.
When tightening the V bands tighten and tap lightly will a small hammer and they seal
See if the other ends of pipes where they connect to manifold are intact and no blow outs on those two pipe/s. If that black soot mark is all you have, I'd pull the rubber boot and check turbo vanes for play and movement. Your air filter is clean?
Quote from: chessie4905 on August 27, 2015, 10:00:44 AM
See if the other ends of pipes where they connect to manifold are intact and no blow outs on those two pipe/s. If that black soot mark is all you have,
.......................... I'd pull the rubber boot and check turbo vanes for play and movement. .........................................
Your air filter is clean?
the Turbo (newly rebuilt) ....
lets hope the turbo is fine... ;D
So I took apart all I could and checked everything (not saying much as I have no idea what I'm looking at/for) then put it back together.
I cannot find any holes in the manifolds or Turbo/exhaust plumbing (it would be pretty obvious with my head in the bay with the engine running correct?)
I took the rubber boot off the Turbo (intake side) and the impeller spins no problem. How freely should it spin? I give it a flick and it will go a rotation. It doesn't spin with zero resistance like a bike wheel would. There is no damage to the blades on the cold side. Ill check the hot side later if it continues with the same issues.
I put the pipe clamps back on and it seems to have fixed the exhaust leak. Ill check that at the end of the run as well.
I started up with no issues. No smoke. Ran fine as far as I can tell. I put it in high idle and no smoke or any issues that I can see or hear.
I'm running to Missoula now. Hopefully without issue. Will post later and let you know how it goes.
-Sean
It should spin easier than you are describing you should get around 5 to 10 revolutions with a flick, you can take a soda straw and blow on the wheel it should turn that easy
Do you have a boost guage?
What clifford said...
That small exhaust leak isn't going to make any difference. Try running a short while without the air cleaner. It could also be a plugged up muffler-although a plugged muffler usually shows itself under full power. Pull the air cleaner side off the turbo and see if it spins freely without wiggle on the shaft. Good Luck, TomC
Cliff -
Its definitely not turning that easy. Theres no way it would spin with a soda straw. In the am I am going to remove the hot side exhaust and take a look at that side of the Turbo. My gut feeling is that it might not be getting enough oil. I'm just wondering if its hosed now. That would be a pisser.
I made it to Missoula but the temp on the bus was pretty warm even without the 8k pound van. It ran between 190 and 205 in the hills (mostly downhill) and it would heat up at the low end of each gear. When I got out to look the Turbo was super hot. I should have grabbed the temp gun but didn't think about it. It was so hot the door on the the engine bay was hot to the touch.
Tom - I will check the muffler. I don't think its that especially because the Turbo is not spinning as freely as Cliff described.
Derrick - no boost gauge nor pyrometer. Both would be very helpful in this situation.
Can anyone reccomend a Turbo shop in Missoula?
Thanks again.
-Sean
if spit bounces off...it's to hot.
if spit sticks....it's ok.
old hands pyrometer ;D
Turbo impeller should not have any sideways wiggle. And it should turn very easily and freely. If it is a bit tight, there's your problem with getting black smoke (slow to spool up). Might have to get another impeller kit. Good Luck, TomC