Ok here is my dilemma.. I need a small ( 3kw or less ) generator that is quiet and I need to fuel it. I would like it to have a number of days of standby fuel for emergencies.
My first thought is Diesel because I have Diesel on board already and I despise carrying gasoline and propane.
Cummings makes a 3kw Diesel but I know they have had problems and it is not that quiet.. But it is Diesel! > http://power.cummins.com/content/rv-qd-3200 (http://power.cummins.com/content/rv-qd-3200)
Honda 3000 would be my first choice because they are super quiet but they are gasoline or propane > http://powerequipment.honda.com/generators/models/eu3000is (http://powerequipment.honda.com/generators/models/eu3000is)
There are 2kw and 3kw Diesel military generators out there with low hours but I would have to build a custom enclosure.
The Honda would require carrying gallons of gasoline or propane. I know gasoline has more btu than propane for the same volume.
Anyone have a permanent gasoline tank on their bus for their generator?
I guess the other option is a lot more batteries and run the bus engine to recharge.
The generator would recharge a battery bank and my high efficiency AC will run off the inverter.
My heat / hot water is from a diesel proheat and everything thing else is going to be solar / electric.
Any thoughts..
Quote from: Darkspeed on August 14, 2015, 07:21:47 AM
The generator would recharge a battery bank and my high efficiency AC will run off the inverter.
My heat / hot water is from a diesel proheat and everything thing else is going to be solar / electric.
Any thoughts..
How much solar power will you have, and where will you be located? Will you be full-timing? Will you be off-grid / boondocking? In other words, how much will you need your generator - will it be only for occasional emergency backups, or for more than that? All those circumstances dictate what type and size of generator you'll need.
"High-efficiency" A/Cs, by which I assume you mean mini-splits, can run off a solar system, but only if A) there are enough panels, and B) enough batteries to support a significant load like this for a useful amount of time. That essentially means carpeting the entire roof with panels and having half a ton of batteries! I am close to that, but even a mini-split A/C will not run for more than a few hours off batteries alone.
FYI, I converted my little Champion generator to propane - it now runs quieter and cleaner than on gasoline, starts as well, and seems to have as much power as before. I have propane on board anyway, so it made sense to convert it because it will only be used very occasionally for emergencies only, no more than a very few times a year at most, and I didn't want to risk gasoline getting stale and gumming up the carb.
John
How about a fuel cell?
http://www.fuelcelltoday.com/about-fuel-cells (http://www.fuelcelltoday.com/about-fuel-cells)
I have one of the Hondas and it is a super quiet generator. Plus it can run sensitive electronics and has a built in battery charger. Get a propane conversion kit and just use propane grille bottles. Make sure it gets enough cooling air.
We have an ancient 6.5kw Kohler with its own 35 gallon gas tank. Since it powers one or two AC's while traveling, the size works well. However, since it seemed like serious overkill to charge the batteries with it for more then the bulk charge, we also have a 1000 watt Honda which is more fuel efficient and quieter. We only take it on trips when we know we will be dry camping. To overcome the small capacity tank it has and the use of gerry cans, it has been adapted to connect to an outboard motor gas tank and can just keep going. Hooking it up to our existing propane system with a quick disconnect would be an interesting option.
Quote from: chessie4905 on August 14, 2015, 09:35:40 AM
I have one of the Hondas and it is a super quiet generator. Plus it can run sensitive electronics and has a built in battery charger. Get a propane conversion kit and just use propane grille bottles. Make sure it gets enough cooling air.
I would need about six 5 gal propane bottles for standby power. Is it safe to carry the 5 gal bottles in a vented bay?
How much safer is it to just get a 30 gallon DOT frame mounted tank?
If you plan on running it that much, then you can get a frame tank of whatever capacity you need, or install a gas tank for it. Remember that filling the large propane tank can be a pita at times depending on where you are. Unless you are going to use propane for cooking or heating also, I wouldn't think it would be worth the added expense of a generator conversion kit plus the cost of a tank.
Diesel would be the other choice if you can deal with the additional cost and noise.
As far as dealing with a gas tank, the 4104 had a gas tank installed behind the front axle, tucked under the body. It used that dead space with a filler neck that had it's own fuel door on same side of coach as main tank. Held about 28 gallons. Ours started leaking after 40 years of age and we had a metal fabrication shop make a new one, They eliminated the recess on sides, (about 1 inch) creating 31 gals instead, approx.
Anyone thought of using one of these on their generator as to not gas everyone out at the campsite? > http://www.foleyengines.com/products/exhaust-products/gasoline-lp-ng-scrubbers (http://www.foleyengines.com/products/exhaust-products/gasoline-lp-ng-scrubbers)
Not pushing any brand genset, but keep in mind a few facts,
Diesel will consume the least amount of fuel per kW,
Gasoline is twice as much as diesel
LPGas is three times diesel.
I have played all three fuels and kept records, so from my usage, these are facts, not opinion.
Been in the emergency generator business over 40 years.
Good luck.
Quote from: wg4t50 on August 14, 2015, 03:02:28 PM
Not pushing any brand genset, but keep in mind a few facts,
Diesel will consume the least amount of fuel per kW,
Gasoline is twice as much as diesel
LPGas is three times diesel.
I have played all three fuels and kept records, so from my usage, these are facts, not opinion.
Been in the emergency generator business over 40 years.
Good luck.
Thank you, Diesel is my preference ... What are your thoughts on the Cummings RV QD 3200? Is there another comparable im not aware of in that size?
Cummings RV QD 3200
No load Quarter load Half load Full load
0.2 Gal/h (0.7 L/h) ? ? ? 0.3 Gal/h (1.0 L/h) 0.4 Gal/h (1.4 L/h)
Honda 3000
No load Quarter Load Half load Full Load
? ? ? 0.17 Gal/h ? ? ? 0.48 Gal/h
Cummings RV QD 3200 Noise Level : 68 dB(A) (readings at 10 ft (3 m) half load) Half load = 68db
Honda Noise Level : 58 dB(A) @ rated load, 49 dB(A) @ 1/4 load Half load = 51db
...and if you use one of the newer inverter generators you can really reduce noise and fuel usage. Provided you're not using at full load the whole time it's in use.
Hey guys, you're killing me. It's cummins :) no g in there lol! As for smoking out the neighbors with genset exhaust, I added an exhaust stack to our coach. Here's a pic of it running in cold weather (you can see the smoke trail) generator is in old a/c bay:
(https://busconversionmagazine.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimages.tapatalk-cdn.com%2F15%2F08%2F14%2F34b16ca35fa9048be58d3e6930f2af58.jpg&hash=7de47e43e474e27e62f025e66729fdb908a21176)
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Looks like fuel consumption is about the same if you factor in the higher cost of diesel fuel.lol 68db@10 feet. The Honda idles down when load is lifted in the one switch position. Won't work when running ac though.
Stop at a rental store some of the light towers by Wacker and others have 3kw Kubota or other small diesel gen sets and they sell those off often .
I bought 4 at sale about 4 or 5 years ago and paid hardly nothing for the units from 3kw to 4.5 kw they have everything you need and they are water cooled
I have a 3800 Onan propane in a RV a nice quite generator it uses about 1 gph under load with the AC running propane is cheap here $ 1.49 for mounted tanks $2.03 for portable tanks with no sales tax.Our van has 2800 Onan gasoline fueled and it is quite too it uses a 1/2 gph under load with the AC.
Now the 20kw diesel running 4 AC units in the bus sucks some fuel the best I can figure is 1.3 gph with out using the diesel fired hot water if we use that much I can add another 1/2 gph
I realize that you're looking at around a 3-3.5kw genset. From my experience of having a 6.5kw Commercial Emerald III gasoline generator on my truck that I put 12,000hrs on my first and 1,500hrs on my second, I highly recommend you NOT deal with gasoline or propane-too much maintenance, although propane would be less, but you'd burn a lot of gas.
Diesel is the way to go. The disadvantage of small Diesel generators is they are usually 1 or 2 cylinder engines running at 3,600rpm. If I needed a smaller generator than my 10kw on my bus or my 12kw on my truck, my number one choice would be the CD8000SI 8kw by Powertech that runs @ 1,800rpm (.4gal/hr 1/2 load, .8gal/hr full load). It is only 34.5"long x 19"h x 25"w and 424lbs. The engine has a sound shield on it and the radiator fan is a squirrel cag fan that pulls the air over the radiator then exhausts it straight down-so that also keeps the compartment cool. I have a truck driver friend that had one of these on his last truck and when he sold it, the generator had over 28,000hrs on it, with only one generator head replacement-and that was because it originally came with a brush type generator. He replaced it with the current brushless type. I know you don't need that big of an generator (you'll be thankful you have a bigger generator if you're in altitude), but the small size, compactness and quiet is worth it. Good Luck, TomC
LOL I don't too much about a diesel set being less maintenance I read on F/B the diesel generators give the entertainer guys fits some of those guys have 2 generators 1 for backup looking for shops to repair both and I know they run 24/7 but it's still a generator
I've had enough problems with my diesel generator that I now borrow a Honda EU2000 for a backup in case the main generator goes down. The EU2000 will run everything except the A/C units and the water heater. The problems have been with the generator head. Never an engine or starting problem.
It's too bad that nobody is making a small 1800 rpm, water cooled, diesel genset. Something along the 3500 watt size. I guess the closest is the Onan 3200, single cylinder air cooled (link shown in an earlier post). I've not known anyone with one of these and haven't heard anything good or bad about them. If Honda would put out a diesel unit like the current quiet gasoline models they're selling, it'd be a barn burner in the sales department.
Powertech makes a liquid cooled diesel 3500 watt generator. I can't find a price or the specs on RPM.
Quote from: belfert on August 15, 2015, 09:58:12 AM
Powertech makes a liquid cooled diesel 3500 watt generator. I can't find a price or the specs on RPM.
here's one (https://busconversionmagazine.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.nextgenerationpower.com%2Fimages%2F55newenc.jpg&hash=e6ae06fc9c9e232f5257595eda5617154de60fa0) a kubota, not power tech tho ... 3.5 and 5 kw available.
radiator/cooling is on you ???
well poop...after further research...it's 2800 rpm >:(
of course they are almost free ;D
here's a 4.5kw direct coupled kubota @1800rpm not sure about cooling tho ???
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Phasor-Marine-4-5Kw-Compact-Generator-/271773800712 (http://www.ebay.com/itm/Phasor-Marine-4-5Kw-Compact-Generator-/271773800712)
(https://busconversionmagazine.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.phasormarine.com%2Fimages%2FDSC_0401.jpg&hash=b3bb2b535d7f3e1e6cc4778f66971e0025c794be)
If I was adding a generator to my bus at this point, I would get a small three cylinder liquid cooled diesel and two 24 volt 160 amp alternators. I would belt drive the alternators from the flywheel of the engine at an rpm that put them in the middle of their power curve with the diesel at just above idle. The alternators would power my house bank of batteries and the Magnum 4024 inverter, which would supply the power. Three cylinders for smooth idle and enough capacity to power the alternators at quite a low rpm, probably around 1200 rpm. That way I could tune my vibration control and sound dampening to a constant speed.
Big fan of the idea of a DC generator if you already have the big inverter and some decent batteries.
Brian
There are tons of small 1800 rpm 12 hp water cooled diesel on the market Kubota,Cat and others anyone can take a 5 or 6 kw turn the HP down not the rpm and depending on the head you can have a small generator.All the manufacture use the same head for 3 or 4 different kw rating just by changing the HP.
FWIW Subaru/Robin builds the small air cooled engines for Cummins/Onan ,gasoline,propane and diesel both my 1 cylinder gasoline and propane engines are Robins
I did a use Question on the PC board. How Many Hrs does your gen set have on it? The typical response was 250 hrs in 10 years in a bus conversion. This makes the type of gen set fuel a little less of a factor. Any gen set is going to cost bucks. So $$ per hour of use should be considered. I have luck finding take outs at my local generator dealer. My latest is a 7.5 propane unit for $1200 dollars. With cabinet. While I do agree diesel would be great. When you do the math of how much per hour it actually cost you the savings on the lp unit with 34hrs on it offsets cost of more efficient diesel at prob 3 times the price. The reason the set had so little hrs on it was the previous owner bought a bigger diesel gen set.(to save $$$ on fuel) FWIW Bob
Almost 1,000 hours on my diesel generator since 2006. The yearly usage is a bit less now since I hooked up the alternator to power my inverter on the road.
I didn't want to add a big gas tank to my bus. It would be a harder decision now as the same diesel generator has gone up at least 50% in cost over what I paid.
Quote from: chessie4905 on August 14, 2015, 06:44:18 PMLooks like fuel consumption is about the same if you factor in the higher cost of diesel fuel.lol 68db@10 feet. The Honda idles down when load is lifted in the one switch position. Won't work when running ac though.
Chessie, what are they doing to you up there in the Peoples Republik of Pennsylvania???? I drove I-84, I-81, and I-83 last night border-to-border across PA, I was seeing diesel $.55 - $.60 more than regular. In NC, I occasionally see diesel lower than regular, usually it's higher but the average is $.06 - $.12 cents. But don't feel too bad -- up in the Socialist Workers' Paradise north of you, I was seeing diesel prices $.60 to $.75 higher than yours!
For the first time in living memory it cost me less to fill up in Canada than in the US. I think PA was the most expensive on my trip, I paid up to $3.25 a gallon, as low as $2.45. In Nova Scotia I paid $.99 a litre, at 3.8 litres per gallon and the 75 cent exchange rate, that works out to around $3 a US gallon, in US funds.
Brian
I just installed a 4024 hybrid inverter with a new set of 4 x trojan t-105 re batteries . I have a split unit a/c up front and a r/v roof shaker in the bed room . when driving at 60 mph with the split unit on it uses 48-52 amps when only using the inverter and with the bogart 2025 it shows only 1.5 amps coming from the bank of batteries . no visual change in engine power or any extra heat on the 6v92ta . when using both a/c,s off the inverter it was using 122-128 amps with only a slight loss of power on full acceleration on a on ramp until up to speed ( 60 mph ) same draw on the bogart 2025 ( 1.5 amps from battery bank )
I tried it with my inverter 3100 generator ( 23 amp max out put ) and set the 4024 hybrid to only 20 amps on input a/c power and using the 4024 hybrid inverter to top up the power for the 30 amps ( 120 volt ) that the 2 a/c,s use . the 4024 only used 10 amps from the battery bank and when the compressor on 1 of the a/c,s cuts out the 4024 would start recharging the battery bank.
now that I know this works my next generator will be a yamaha ef3000iseb inverter generator with the boost control ( 25 amp max ) as gene,s go it is as quiet as the honda 49 db - 59 db and uses very little gas or propane .
the 3100 gene I have now on full is 69 db . that is 2 times as load as the honda or the yamaha gene at 59 db
I have looked at lots of diesel gene,s from 3 k to 6 k and would love to have 1 but I hate the noise ( min. 69 db )
most of the time we are in the coach the 1 split a/c unit will keep us cool and if I run it only on the 6v92ta I will not be using the gene that much .
so with the help of my new 4024 hybrid for me my set up should be complete
sorry about the long winded post but I have looked at doing this for a long time and because my old batteries were 10 years old now was the time to up grade
dave
I have a Yamaha ef3000iseb in my bus and am quite happy with it so far--not real cheap to buy though.
When it comes to a cheap back up type genny, I am trying out a little 2000 watt inverter generator. Against my better judgement I bought a 2000 watt inverter generator on fleabay. It is a Powermate PM2000i and set me back a whole $329.
Much to my surprise, the genny will run the 6000 BTU air conditioner and the mini fridge in my bus at the same time on the econmy setting without breaking a sweat. The genny is pretty quiet and seems to meet the 83 dB rating advertised at least while on economy and not under load. The racket jumps nearly to 90 dB under load and going full tilt at 4800 RPM. Seems pretty good overall.
The genny is CARB compliant which probably accounts for having to fatten up the fuel mixture with the choke to keep it from surging as it runs. If it is too lean it will burn the valves and if it is too rich it will wash the cylinder and soon burn oil. Maybe I should take it to a smog station HA, HA.
I bought the genny to use on my motorcycle camper trailer which I have gone way over budget on what with A/C, microwave, mini fridge, inverter, battery, battery charger, and shore power wiring that I just can't afford a Yamaha or Honda genny. The generator is guaranteed for three years which hopefully speaks to it's quality--we'll see. Jack
If you use your inverter mostly, then you just need a battery recharge system. Any small Diesel (Kubota, Yanmar, John Deere, Caterpillar [Perkins], Isuzu, etc)will work. I would stick with at least a 3 cylinder since you could run a 3 cylinder at a slower rpm than a 1 or 2 cylinder to create the same power-and a 1 or 2 cylinder is rough unless run up to high rpm. Then use 2-160amp alternators. I say this because we sell 160amp 12vdc alternators for a $160.00ea. Pretty cheap way to go. Good Luck, TomC
Dave, I was intrigued by your setup. Can you dumb it down for me? I'm still slowly trying to learn and come up with a setup that works for us. Let me tell you what I think is happening, and you can correct me:
You are using an inverter to power your a/c units using your coach alternator. If you run both of them, it slowly drains your battery bank when driving down the road so you kick on the genny to help out? Or vice versa?
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Scott
I am still playing with the new setup .
if I only need the split unit I can drive all day and use the inverter off the coach alternator ( less then 50 amps )
with the 270 amp alternator this is a lot less use then the coach was a bus in service so no problems
with the 2 a/c,s on the amp usage ( 130 amp due to the power hog of the roof shaker ) is still less then it would have been with the on the road bus a/c running . but I did see a small drop in hp on 6v92ta ( no gene at all )
so with the 4024 hybrid and a small quiet gene the inverter will top up the power needed to run 2 a/c units on the road or on the poll . as the a/c,s compressor cycles the inverter will add power when needed
sorry for hijacking the post
dave
Dave hijack away - thats good info!
I have a SW4024 as well and a pair of 2424's and have had good success running a variety of split systems off of it.
My plan is for a big as possible 24v LiFeYPO4 battery bank.
I have the same Yamaha 3000 watt inverter generator with boost, and like it a lot. Only 23 amps continuous. I find that it will overheat (or at least run pretty hot) if I leave it in the old condenser bay behind the front wheel of my MCI when stationary, so I open the door and kind of lean it out at 45 degrees. That gets the exhaust outside the bay, and it seems perfectly happy just sitting there (with a giant cable lock).
Brian
A friend has a 3 cylinder 1800rpm 8kw ISB (Shibaura S753) diesel marine generator from 1988 with Zero hours on it still new in the crate. I wonder what it would take to convert to radiator? It says 70db full load so I would have to build a box for it. SHIBAURA is the engine used in FORD tractors.
I have a 1.5 " tail pipe with 90 deg.bend that lines up were the gene exhaust that goes out through the coach at the front end of the old a/c bay with the 3100 gene I have now on a slide out dwr . it runs nice and cool because of the tail pipe . the problem I have is the yamaha exhaust is on the other end of the gene so I will have to adjust for that ? or look at the honda 3000 that will line up as it is .
I would like to know just how many amps the old over the road a/c used to know if I am pushing the draw with the 2 a/c units that I am running off the inverter / alternator
if I could find a small diesel gene ( 3-4 k ) that was under 60 db I would buy it
dave
Came across this, pretty interesting 3.5 kw 16" tall diesel > http://www.hardydiesel.com/kubota-generators/kubota-x-gen-micro-diesel-generators.html (http://www.hardydiesel.com/kubota-generators/kubota-x-gen-micro-diesel-generators.html)
It uses the kubota EA330 like this project > http://www.microcogen.info/index.php?topic=2570.0 (http://www.microcogen.info/index.php?topic=2570.0)
Quote from: Darkspeed on August 18, 2015, 06:29:22 PM
Came across this, pretty interesting 3.5 kw 16" tall diesel > http://www.hardydiesel.com/kubota-generators/kubota-x-gen-micro-diesel-generators.html (http://www.hardydiesel.com/kubota-generators/kubota-x-gen-micro-diesel-generators.html)
I guess you'd have to build your own soundproofing but any idea on sound level?
I have seen the hardy unit and though about building a sound box but the ease to buy and run + 3 year warranty and the fact that yamaha , honda are every were + the big thing for me is the noise level . for the time I run a gene I will add a auxiliary tank if I need 1 . and probably set it up for propane if needed
my 3100 gas inverter gene I have now only has 29 hrs on it after 2 years use and works fine but is loud at 69 db
dave
Dave, I tossed the original gas tank on my Yamaha ef3000iseb genny and went with an eight gallon remote tank. I use a low pressure electric pump plumbed directly to the carb. The pump is switched by a relay which in turn is switched by a sail switch in the path of the genny's cooling fan. That way when the genny is off so is the pump. Jack