Waiting on parts from the all mighty Luke...
After removing one hub and finding unlimited shenanigans I decided to do the other three.
Both front hubs had all Lefty studs ... hmmm.. glad im replacing them with longer L & R studs for aluminum wheels
Arggg... I guess the last owner/ mechanic assumed that the rear bearings run on diff oil...
No signs of Grease and marks on the shaft where the bearings had done a little spinning.
Bearings look ok at first glance.
S-Cam has some ware as expected.
S-Cam bushings are worn out allowing for almost 1/8 off axis "rocking".
Brake shoes look new :)
Some chisel must have been angry at that nut!
Chisel wounds.... just shows it's been often maintained... by the same person ;D
Quote from: eagle19952 on July 13, 2015, 01:52:07 PM
Chisel wounds.... just shows it's been often maintained... by the same person ;D
Or the lack of grease burned that nut on.. lol..
They do not run in oil??????
They can run in oil or with proper seals, hubs run in grease. Many people use a punch or chisel to tighten/loosen nuts. Best is proper socket and torque wrench.
Yes my 4106 rear bearings run in gear oil . Just rebuilt rear ended 2 yrs ago .
Quote from: loveshack on July 13, 2015, 04:21:42 PM
Yes my 4106 rear bearings run in gear oil . Just rebuilt rear ended 2 yrs ago .
The should not! They run in Grease! as per all of the specs
The rear seals isolate the grease area from the diff oil area - they are not supposed to mix
Lot of guys switch the seals out to run on axle oil. My 4104 is that way.
Hey a couple less bearings to grease!
Good luck
Quote from: johns4104 on July 13, 2015, 05:29:05 PM
Lot of guys switch the seals out to run on axle oil. My 4104 is that way.
Hey a couple less bearings to grease!
Good luck
are you talking about the front or the rear?
I know you can do that in the front. Can you do that in the rear??
Passenger side rear was filled with grease and not oil, it was also filled with water and rust... and crusty bearings..
Races are shot as well. How bad are the races to change out?
There was also an issue with the passenger side brake and drum.
It looks like someone replaced the pads without fixing the groove in the drum and now the pad matches the drum.
Do I need a new drum / pads?
Todd,
My 4106 has oil bath rear bearings as well.
Mark
some would run them... but I believe..they are beyond acceptable wear. .060 if I recall correctly.
And That would be both sides in my opinion...
Would u sell it that way ?
Quote from: OneLapper on July 13, 2015, 07:03:51 PM
Todd,
My 4106 has oil bath rear bearings as well.
Mark
Mark what did you change to use oil bath rear bearings? The OEM seals are designed to prevent oil from entering the bearing housing. Where /how do you fill the rear bearing housing?
QuoteThe GMC coaches rear axle lubercant fill plug is lower than the axle tubes.
GMC Coach maintenance manual states that.
The inter and outer bearings on the rear hubs MUST be packed with with wheel bearing grease.
Don't try to run the coach unless you pack these wheel bearings with grease.
I had my bearings, both front and rear changed to oil. Virtually all trucks are using oil bearings. Good Luck, TomC
Todd, Nice work you are doing. That rear bearing find saved a major problem somewhere.
Todd,
When I bought my bus, the first thing I did was put new tires, brakes, cams, drums, bearings, seals, etc. Anything safety related, I inspected, replaced or serviced. At the time I don't even recall questioning oil bath vs grease. I took the old seals off, went to Fleet Pride and ordered replacements. I filled the rear axle housing until I had oil coming out of both sides, then tipped the axle left and right for several hours to ensure oil got into the hubs, and I continued to top off the oil. I imagine the oil level is above the upper plug when the axle is level but I don't think it's hurting anything. The axle is still there and the wheels haven't fallen off!
Thanks OneLapper! My concern was specifically the PD 4106 set up because 1. its not designed to pump oil into the hubs 2. the seals are designed to keep oil out of the hubs 3. the oil plug is lower than the tube so you either are not filling deep enough to wet the hubs or you have so much oil that you are creating drag / foam in the diff.
If you say it is working for you cool! I just wanted to know what you changed about the seals that allowed you run the hubs on diff oil? If you put OEM seals in you are relying on them to leak to lubricate your hubs or is their a special "convert to oil" seal that makes this happen?
Just very curious, Thanks!
My experience was to install the Stemco style seals on hubs; don't have the number anymore. They seal inside themselves, so eliminates problems from axle surface wear. Then used a pipe elbow to raise oil fill level in differential. No foaming issues were encountered. The oil level is same height as all axles with oil lubed hubs since the centerline of the ring gear has to be the same on all differentials. I personally like grease seals on old coaches, at least on mine; you get a leak and oil goes over the brake lining and drum, reducing braking by over 30 percent. Quite a mess to clean up and shoes should be replaced instead of cleaned or you will have gear oil seeping out of pores of lining any time they get hot. Others claim no issues with oil type seals. To each his own. Also, to be fair, the seal at end of axle shaft could fail and cause gear oil to migrate to the hubs, eventually leaking onto lining and drum if the inner grease seal failed too. Mobil and other companies mfg synthetic semi fluid grease for use in non oil hubs. In the past some trucking companies switched over to grease because a seal failure would cause a DOT inspection failure. Haven't kept up on this lately.
NOTE: check for wear on axle stub surface where inner hub bearing rides, especially on bottom. Wouldn't hurt to check with a micrometer. If it is noticeably worn, bearing will seat loosely and cause excess seal lip movement beyond design. Especially check for this if experiencing repeat seal failure in 10 to 20 thousand miles or less.
Iv been fighting the rain storms here in Florida..
The front passenger side had the brake maladjusted and dragging.
Everything in the hub looks like it got too hot at some point.
The bearings are pitted and there are two flaws on the spindle.
Pitting in one area and scoring? Chiseling? on the seal surface..
The outer was almost cut through by a chisel as well.
I have resolved to replacing all bearings, cups, seals, and nuts.
O and some one drove out the bushings and seals on the s-cams and replaced them with solid bushing stock with no seals.
This added to the brake dragging issue as the s-cam was hung.
Yay! and by Yay i mean hot shower, hot coffee, and warm parts catalog...
Geez, I am with One Lapper, on my MC7, when I bought it, it was with the full understanding that it needed everything, I was right, every bearing, seal, S Cam, bushings, shoes, springs, king pins, rear, slack adjusters, air bags, radius rod bushings, steering gear upgrade, all tie rod ends, drag link ends, the list is about for ever, but it never let sit on the road, had in every state east of the Miss River and part of Canada for over 20 years. Would still have it except a stroke cured my crawling around under it etc, so bought a store bought Foretravel with the Cummins ISM500 & Allison 4000 retarder auto, spoil me, you bet.
Just no class like the ole MC7 with the 12V-71 & RTO910 ;D
Dave M
it looks to me like some one cut a seized bearing off with a torch....
Belzona will cure that spindle.
Quote from: eagle19952 on July 14, 2015, 02:23:52 PM
it looks to me like some one cut a seized bearing off with a torch....
Belzona will cure that spindle.
Thanks Donald I will check that out!
Todd -
A late friend of mine used to work as a sales rep for this outfit: https://www.castolin.com/en-US (https://www.castolin.com/en-US) They had some pretty amazing stuff for building worn things up so they could be machined back to specs.
FWIW & HTH. . .
;)
There are companies that will remove damaged axle hsg end and press and weld in a new one. I think they can do on site. Maybe they only have replacement stubs for semi's. Luke may know.
Quote from: Darkspeed on July 14, 2015, 07:18:35 AM
Thanks OneLapper! My concern was specifically the PD 4106 set up because 1. its not designed to pump oil into the hubs 2. the seals are designed to keep oil out of the hubs 3. the oil plug is lower than the tube so you either are not filling deep enough to wet the hubs or you have so much oil that you are creating drag / foam in the diff.
If you say it is working for you cool! I just wanted to know what you changed about the seals that allowed you run the hubs on diff oil? If you put OEM seals in you are relying on them to leak to lubricate your hubs or is their a special "convert to oil" seal that makes this happen?
Just very curious, Thanks!
I didn't convert it from grease to oil, I'm assuming the busing company did, so I can't really offer any advice on how to do it. At the time I didn't realize it used to be greased.
That spindle should be fine, what will the burn marks hurt? Clean and buff for seal, maybe hold seal out on hub a little.
You can build the seal gouge up with the Belzona (thanks for that, btw, cool looking stuff) and then install a speedi-sleeve. I installed speedi-sleeve's for the oil seals on both my front hubs. The stub axle where the bearing goes I would just polish it out with some 400 grit paper.
Brian
Thanks guys! The grease seal actually rides on the major diameter of the bearing spacer ( the one with the gouge on the side ) so I think I can clean up the side with a file and be ok. New bearings, cups, and seals are on the way..
I am now wondering if I should breakdown the king pins? I cant measure any play in them but Im concerned because everything else was such a mess...
Well the drivers side front was fun and the giant wasp nest in the hub made it exciting.
Lock nut was rusty and there was rust in the grease, there was also a grit in the grease that I first assumed was sand but it turned out to be grains of metal.
It looks like bronze but I dont know where it came from unless the grease was pre contaminated.
As with all the other bearings these were pitted and crunchy.
Part of the gasket was missing and it looks like it has not been open in a long long time.
Front brake adjusters were cranked all the way over and the bottom brake shoe was frozen in the applied position.
How this bus drove around with all of these maintenance issues I have no idea, I know the PO drove it up from Miami before I bought it.
This is my new advice >
If you dont know 100% what you have going on down there, open it up!
Quote from: Darkspeed on July 15, 2015, 01:38:29 PM
Well the drivers side front was fun and the giant wasp nest in the hub made it exciting.
Lock nut was rusty and there was rust in the grease, there was also a grit in the grease that I first assumed was sand but it turned out to be grains of metal.
It looks like bronze but I dont know where it came from unless the grease was pre contaminated.
As with all the other bearings these were pitted and crunchy.
Part of the gasket was missing and it looks like it has not been open in a long long time.
Front brake adjusters were cranked all the way over and the bottom brake shoe was frozen in the applied position.
How this bus drove around with all of these maintenance issues I have no idea, I know the PO drove it up from Miami before I bought it.
This is my new advice >
If you dont know 100% what you have going on down there, open it up!
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