Hey all,
I'm not a happy guy... Worked my tail off to get the bus ready and was nearly involved in a head on collision on 285 from Denver to Buena Vista. First off, I know everybody talks about "slow down, enjoy the scenery, you don't need a more powerful motor in the mountains. HOGWASH!!! Until law enforcement does something about the unbelievable tailgating, passing on double yellow lines and doing 85-90 in a 65 driving a bus in the mountains at all is not worth the effort. Especially trying to coax a non turbocharged motor over the Rockies. Watched a guy in a AutoForce Van pass 30 cars behind me in a line on a double yellow where I was going the speed limit in a 65 mph zone, An 18 wheeler was coming and this joker played chicken with him and just about put me and my 7 year old boy through the windshield. If he would've stopped I would've shot him dead on sight. I transferred the family to the car and had at least 40 cars pass me on a uphill double yellow with blind turns. There's something about this new generation of diesel freaks in their chipped and piped duramax's that spells death wish if you ask me. Seriously considering selling the bus and calling it a day. I don't want/need any lectures about taking my time guys, I'll lend you my bus and you can take the d$#n thing over a pass with these idiots and you'll change your tune. Never again. By the way we left at 5:30 am to avoid the traffic to begin with.
Hey Rick. Glad you all made it okay. Sounds bad!
I know that route well. On the way back, you might consider taking HWY 24 to Colorado Springs. You will like that route much better.
Enjoy BV. The Roastary downtown has the best coffee in town. Buy some cheap sunflower seeds (bird seed style) and take a day trip to the ghost town of St. Elmo. Go on a weekday, in the morning, and you will have a blast. Right across from the general store, there is a pile of rail road ties. There are a TON of chipmunks that live in there that love to eat sunflower seeds from tourists. The kids will have a ball.
A really pretty drive is west out of BV on road 306. It is paved all the way to the pass. The pass is the Continental divide. You can take the family and hike the Divide trail as far as you want. Nice walk. If you have a car you don't mind taking on dirt roads, you can keep going on 306 to Tincup. Really neat little old town.
If you are into climbing 14ers, Mt. Yale is a fun easy day hike. And when I say easy, it is still a tough hike if you are used to 5K elevation gain, and about 10 miles round trip.
Aspen and Crested Butte are really neat places to visit. All depends on what you like to do.
Fishing? Cottonwood Lake is amazing.
I love that area and have been up there a ton. Don't let the drive out cloud it. Just take HWY 24 back, and you won't have an issue. The main portion of mountains is four lane.
Have fun!
John
It's not just with a bus. We live on a good two lane mountain road. It has a lot of curves, 8% grades up and down, and roads coming into it on curves. There are little crosses and memorials all along this road where idiots have hit somebody head on. The speed limit is 55mph and people do 65 and 70 without even slowing for the curves. Soccer moms are the worst. Tail gaiting, flying by every chance they get, and with kids in the back seat. I had some idiot pass me on the right using the shoulder and I was doing the speed limit just last week.
Cary
Did the road have any turnouts?
Yep there are idiots out there but then I understand what Rick is saying if he had more power he could blend in with the traffic a little better.
When we go across Texas on I 10 I run the 80 mph speed limit if you don't your are likely to get run over.
Yesterday he was so proud the old 8V71 was breathing nice cool air at about 5000 ft running like a champ making power with a little black smoke Me if all possible I would try and stay under 5000 ft as the 8V71N/A drops like a rock after 5000 ft IMO
This is why I stay on the interstates crossing the Rockies. At least interstates have a second lane for the faster vehicles. I might have more power than Rick, but I still can't keep up with the cars. It isn't that unusual to drop to 40 MPH on some of the grades while the cars are still whipping by at 20 MPH or more faster.
Except for being able to hold speed going up a hill better, the problem isn't more power. It is the morons who really are out to get you.
My wife long held the opinion the problem with other drivers was because of the bus. So I started pointing out that they drive exactly the same around us even when we are in our cars. If the bus had 1000 horsepower it wouldn't do any good once we got behind a slower truck, and it sure as hell isn't going to get me down the hill on the other side of the mountain any faster.
If other drivers get you upset as much as they apparently do the best recommendation I could make is to sell the bus. Take public transportation and try not to look out the windshield because no matter what vehicle you are in they drive the same way.
This is one of the many reasons I'm making my truck with my car inside with me. I will drive on interstates as much as possible. Then when I want to explore on 2 lane, drive the car. With my bus, I've been on some incredibly narrow mountain roads (no center line so narrow). Pure white knuckle driving-and this from a truck driver that drove 1.3 million miles. Drive a big vehicle where a big vehicle should be driven. Good Luck, TomC
Hey all,
Well apparently yesterday was a "one in a million" traffic day here. Talked to people who have lived here their whole lives and they couldn't explain it. By mid afternoon the town was a normal tourist town and the 25-25 year old crazies had moved on to other areas.
John, we had already found the roasting place downtown great coffee but ai was amazed at the hundred or so young folks that were sitting on the floor, standing outside everywhere, the connection? They were all using the wifi to get online so they could connect on Facebook. It was so representative of the overall problem. Let's drive like we are on the set of Mad Max and then when we get to where we're going let's all isolate and snap chat, tweet and email one another.
Lin, I slowed and almost stopped letting people go by me when the right hand lane opened up but they would try to force me off the road rather than let me back in when the extra lane ended so, there was no escaping this.
Jon, i agree the problem is a cultural one not a horsepower one and yes I tend to take people who threaten my seven year old's life seriously and I do have a problem with them. But thankfully, not half as big a problem as it could've been if that dude in the van had pulled over. That would not have ended well for him I assure you.
I have two beefs with this scenario. One is the folks who have been telling me for years here on the blog that I need to slow down, enjoy the scenery etc. I think that thinking is well intentioned but doesn't apply to largely two lane roads in the mountains unless you want every entitled, crazy sob putting you and your family at risk. The last time it happened I started to think I was imagining all the craziness that comes out of folks when they can't go 85-90 mph to go "relax and chill" on their vacations. The other is that this is just another example of what is wrong with our country. The "me" generation drive, spend, legislate and bully like no other generation before them. I feel bad for my kids because it's only getting worse.
Moral of the story? Brian is right, if you're gonna drive in the mountains during a holiday in a bus, regardless of horsepower you should consider driving on interstates that have extra lanes for slow traffic and even then it may not be worth the white knuckle experience. Lea and I have decided to only drive our bus in mountains during the off season. The traffic here in downtown Buena Vista yesterday was right up there with State Fair traffic, today a car every 3 minutes or so... I just don't get it
Tom C you got it dead right.
Clifford you were right as usual. She's sluggish but she never got over 170 degrees. The blue smoke is getting worse so I'm hoping she makes it home to get the blower seals checked.
RB
Could have been worse RB if you were up at that altitude with a 6V71 N/A and a automatic then you could check out the different rock colors on the shoulder of the road ;D
When we are in that situation....I usually tell the wife to get out and push... ;D
Really it does happen to just about everyone ??? :-\ ???
I live on a two lane road that is so narrow the bus wheels are on the edge line and the double yellow line at the same time. There are multiple curves so sharp that the tail of the coach tracks about 2 feet onto the other lane, or I have to poke the nose about 2 feet into the other lane just to keep the drive tires on the road because of the curves.
There are no shoulders and in most spots if I drop off the edge I am likely to roll the coach.
So cars that are coming at me are a real threat. And a lot of them never slow down. Ironically the school bus drivers are more than willing to come at me without slowing and I know for sure our mirrors will not pass unless we each jog to the right slightly so I intentionally stay into the oncoming lane until the school bus, or dump truck slows sufficiently so we can pass safely. Even a big Prevost is not intimidating enough to drivers that should know better.
Everyone is in a big hurry, or doesn't want to be behind someone, or is busy texting and not driving. So I am an interstate driver and I will only rarely drive on smaller roads because even if I could go fast, it still wouldn't be fast enough for some of the morons.
A while back I was on US 70 between home (Huntingdon, TN) and Jackson, TN in a bus on a lovely lonely afternoon with NO TRAFFIC at all. As I dropped off one particular hill that has a long straight section before starting up the next hill and around the next bend I let the bus ROLL since I could easily see for over a mile that there was no other traffic on the road but me. All the sudden I get passed by a pick up truck that had come from NOWHERE, as I check my mirrors regularly!
I looked down at the speedometer and I was doing 75 mph!
This guy came out of nowhere and passed me like I was sitting still and just kept going at who knows how fast on a hilly twisty two lane road.
I know I was doing 20 over the limit (but only on that down hill stretch), but this guy had to be doing over 100 the way he passed me and disappeared in notime!
People just don't care about safety these days!
;D BK ;D
He would have been going faster but he was answering his texts.
Georgia overdrive :o
After just driving our empty shell 8v92T I can tell you that more power is really nice. Since our coach shell is empty and light weight, our bus hung with the cars and the big boys. Even up slight grades. It definitely felt like we were less of a roadblock when we could pass slower trucks. But it doesn't solve the bad driver issue. People still cut your nose off after passing, people draft off of me which is annoying but I've learned to ignore it cause it's their head that will bash in if I stop quick, not mine. It's nuts out there. Honestly, I appreciate my bus the most when it's parked. I only drive it to change scenery and then happily park it again for months. I'd much rather see the sights in our toad. Much less stressful. Rick, explain to me what happened? If the guy was passing you how did he make you almost go through the windshield? I thought it was an oncoming passing vehicle....but you said he passed people behind you...I'm misunderstanding this somehow
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
My three biggest gripes about drivers.........merging. They just don't understand the concept of mashing the gas to match speeds with those on the right of way. Then that creates a very dangerous situation when you don't know if they will jump in front of you at a slow speed or hit the brakes at the end of the entry ramp. A variation is the "polite" driver in the right of way who steps on his brakes to let some slow moving fool in line, and then the two of them almost come to a complete stop trying to figure out who should go first. In the meantime the traffic in the slow lane behind these morons is starting to do panic stops.
Then there is the guy that passes and as soon as he clears the front bumper he jumps back in front. That of course leaves no stopping distance for us. A variation is the moron (there is that word again) that passes and then hits the brakes as soon as he pulls back in the lane.
My final biggest gripe is when I am in the middle lane of a three lane highway. Then some guy passes and as soon as he clears my bumper shoots across all three lanes onto the exit ramp. I have no clue how these morons miss getting tangled with traffic in the slow lane or on the ramp because they sure cannot see who is over there by looking beneath my coach.
I don't know how truckers who spend their days dealing with these fools manage to keep their sanity.
You need patience, relax, hang back to maintain a big following distance. It is defensive driving. You look far ahead, on both sides and behind to know what's going on all the time. That way you create a safety bubble around you. I have been driving buses, and lately transport trucks, for 40 years, and I know this is the only way to survive the all star race out there. I have seen many bus drivers quit in frustration because they were too hyper and didn't have the patience to do it. And you cannot worry about being slow up the hills. It is what it is: a big, heavy, slow vehicle. Do you see truckers worry about being slow? I am getting into driving dump trucks and semis the last couple of years, and they are a lot slower up the hills and into the off and on ramps than my bus. The traffic piles up behind you , and they pass and cut you off as soon as they can, but oh well...
JC
I'm thinking of making some bumper stickers that say "If you can read this, you ARE my crumple zone".
John
Quote from: luvrbus on July 04, 2015, 08:30:51 AM
Could have been worse RB if you were up at that altitude with a 6V71 N/A and a automatic then you could check out the different rock colors on the shoulder of the road ;D
Hey, Clifford -
Now you're describing my MC-5c!!
I didn't name it "Aesop's Tortoise" for nothing!
;D
On our first day on the road this spring we had 2 people pass us on the right on a gravel shoulder. Didn't see the first one until he cut right in front of us just flying by, the shoulder ended less than 150 ft. in front of him. ??? The next one was a few miles farther up the road and happened just after we passed a sign saying that there was a passing lane 1/2 mile ahead. About 4 miles farther along he turned into the parking lot of a minute mart and we weren't more than 1/4 mile behind him. Makes you wonder wtf these people are thinking......actually i don't think that they are thinking. Also makes me wonder how they have managed to stay alive as long as they have so far.
I like the idiots that fly around you then you pull up behind them at the next stop light it makes them nervous, they run people off the road to gain 1 spot in the food chain
We just went up 8 mile hill out of Canon City yesterday. 8V71 in this MC7. 18 mph and I was hoping I had enough power to actually get to the top. About half way up the hot engine light came on. I pulled over and bungeed the back doors open. Meanwhile a very nice Female State trooper stopped to make sure we were ok. She was very nice. Gave the kids some glow sticks and then followed us up the hill to make sure we were good. Having the back doors open helped a lot with the heat.
Passing on double yellow lines on blind curves, forcing other drivers to the shoulder on passing lanes, paying more attention to the damn cell phone instead of that 2800 pound missile they are herding down the road, the emergency lane is both a passing lane and a 5 mile turn lane. Red lights don't mean stop it means 5 more cars can go through and in TN the drivers that merge onto the highway then without looking shoot across three lanes of traffic to be in the fast lane just drive me crazy! How do you stop the madness?
Ken
Maybe our children, and for sure our grand children, will just sit in autonomous cars guided by sensors and computers. Travelling on public roads will be 1000 times safer. They won't even be texting because they'll have sensors implanted in their heads to communicate with their friends. All that is coming on fast, and humanity will be all the better for it. I would miss the pleasure of driving though.
JC
Maybe if driving licenses weren't handed out like candy and people had to actually learn how to competently drive, not unlike what's needed to get a private pilot's license, then this country wouldn't have the accident rate it now has. In most Western European nations it's not an easy or cheap process to get a driver's license, and those are the countries with much lower accident rates than here. Essentially the current process epitomizes the educational system as a whole - getting a piece of paper seems to be more important than acquiring real knowledge or skill. Style over substance, just paying lip-service, going through the motions (so to speak) - call it what you want.
In the meanwhile, I drive here no differently than in Mexico - I just assume anyone can do anything at any time for any or no reason, and am not surprised when the unexpected happens. Amazingly, even when in a honking-great bright yellow bus people still act as if they haven't seen me!
John
Yup...here's how they do it in Mexico..
(https://busconversionmagazine.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.bumfuzzle.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2015%2F06%2FJune29-7-1024x683.jpg&hash=40f9e4ce0f01ed0138c90f9e4820745d4e4c86f5)
Quote from: Iceni John on July 07, 2015, 12:01:37 PM
Maybe if driving licenses weren't handed out like candy and people had to actually learn how to competently drive, not unlike what's needed to get a private pilot's license, then this country wouldn't have the accident rate it now has. In most Western European nations it's not an easy or cheap process to get a driver's license, and those are the countries with much lower accident rates than here. Essentially the current process epitomizes the educational system as a whole - getting a piece of paper seems to be more important than acquiring real knowledge or skill. Style over substance, just paying lip-service, going through the motions (so to speak) - call it what you want.
In the meanwhile, I drive here no differently than in Mexico - I just assume anyone can do anything at any time for any or no reason, and am not surprised when the unexpected happens. Amazingly, even when in a honking-great bright yellow bus people still act as if they haven't seen me!
John
They do have a program not unlike that of the FAA licensing program. Not as rigorous, but along the same lines. Maybe someone could take a poll among RVers who probably are the safest drivers and see how many would actually favor having to get the equivalent of a CDL. Then multiply that result by the number of total drivers compared to those surveyed and you will quickly see the US drivers are not going to embrace anything that requires them to actually earn a driver license. Then if you want to really screw up the equation find out how many would support technology that turns off their phones until the car comes to a stop.
The morons are out to get us.
Quote from: RickB on July 04, 2015, 06:59:48 AM
Clifford you were right as usual. She's sluggish but she never got over 170 degrees. The blue smoke is getting worse so I'm hoping she makes it home to get the blower seals checked.
RB
So now I get a different picture-- if your bus is blowing blue smoke no wonder everyone wanted to pass you. I can't stand being behind a "stinky" diesel myself!
--Geoff
P.S. Leaky blower seals put oil out the air box drains, blue oil smoke comes from bad rings or leaky piston pin retainers.
A number of years ago I went to see BK in Union City in my bus. Not far from his place I almost hit a car that pulled out at high speed right in front of me just so they wouldn't have to be behind a "slow" bus.
When I drive my car I think about what I've experienced driving my bus. I won't pull out in front of a bus or truck because I know they can't stop fast and I would rather not get hit. I also won't pull in front of a truck in heavy traffic as I know the driver was leaving that space for safety.
Brian, you are the kind of driver all drivers should be. Unfortunately the thought process you use is alien to the general driving public because if they were thinking they would not drive as they do. When you combine that lack of awareness with the ever present cell phones we have more risk than ever.
Just remember in your travels in Nevada they will nail you for using a hand held cell phone while driving and they don't care where you are from you are going to be ticketed
NY is the same. However, how much attention are you paying to the highway if you have to look at your phone to dial a number, and if you are engaged in a conversation what is the difference between how much attention you pay to driving whether you hold the phone or use hands free devices?
I watch people with hands free devices moving their hands all over the place. Instead of holding the phone they are gesturing and their driving still sucks.
Quote from: belfert on July 07, 2015, 07:50:02 PM
A number of years ago I went to see BK in Union City in my bus. Not far from his place I almost hit a car that pulled out at high speed right in front of me just so they wouldn't have to be behind a "slow" bus.
When I drive my car I think about what I've experienced driving my bus. I won't pull out in front of a bus or truck because I know they can't stop fast and I would rather not get hit. I also won't pull in front of a truck in heavy traffic as I know the driver was leaving that space for safety.
Unfortunately, few drivers have those good habits, Brian.
Well I found that driving without my family in the bus takes a lot of the stress out of this for me, I've lived a good life and I care a lot less about what folks do that's dangerous when my kids are safe. Geoff the blue smoke stops after a mile or two and the black smoke was minimal except when I turned on the jakes. I saved that little trick for the especially obnoxious drivers I encoubtered. Once again someone suggested that slowing down and taking it easy is the answer. I completely disagree with that idea and suggest that either folks haven't done this in the last decade or they are just uninformed as to the reality of the level of recklessness that is actually taking place in America on the mountain highways. The bus ran great from Buena Vista to Twin Lakes and we are heading south to Pueblo and avoiding the mountains completely for the rest of the trip. RB