I'm looking for advise on the price to change an engine from my spare bus to my converted bus. I understand each area and shop will charge different rates. I am looking ideally a dollar ball park figure but would be fine with estimate on hours it should take. I will be back in Montana soon and will be looking for shops that will be willing to do this change out. I thought I would start here to get a good understanding on ball park costs before I get an estimate and have sticker shock. Both buses are MC-9 6V92 with auto transmission. I plan to take engine and transmission out of the spare bus and change with my converted bus then scrap the spare bus. I originally figured I would do this work myself but I don't have enough time while I'm there.
Thanks
John
Based on what I think it would take to do it myself, and assuming it is a straight swap without any engine work or other mods or fabbing, I figure one day each to remove engines from each bus. Plus another day to reinstall engine in converted bus. That is 3 days. Which for me actually means 6. So roughly figuring 60 hours at $100/hr = $6000. If a shop would do it for less than that, and I trusted them to do it right, I might be tempted to let them do it.
JC
I was going to say around the same. Two guys working, probably a day and a half to pull both engines, and a day to install one, so that's around 5 man-days/40 man-hours plus stuff. Presumes they know what to do and have the tools.
Brian
2 men working 1 day... is 16 hours.
20 hours is a long day
and 2 long days are 40 hours... at-least it was in my shop.
a bus shop ought to be able to pull that off...if you deliver the put in power pack on the cradle.
are you changing transmissions too ?
I would go for 5 or 6 grand by the time hoses, lines,belts and wiring get changed me I would have both transmissions dynoed and checked while I had it out and go with the best one JMO.
Nothing when it comes to swapping engines in a bus is cut and dry even if they are the same model,make and year
Both of those have been sitting for a while I would change the front oil pump seal and the rear main seal for insurance
I do not know how involved engine swaps are with the MC9. Years ago (about 1970) I helped swap out a 743 Cummings in a 1963 Crown Supercoach 10 wheeler. Took two and one half people, (I was the one half) less than one working day. About 3 hours out, 3 hours in. The school bus was up on big special ramps over a pit. They had all the special jacks and stands. The engine assembly dropped out the bottom. The 5 speed Spicer also got changed out for a RTO 910. All the assemblies were on hand. Redoing the shifter rod took about one hour. Air lines had to be added and routed. I do not remember if the speedo cable had to be re geared. HB
i guess my point is, 2 guys 5 days is 80 hours...at 1 C note per...
Thanks
The spare bus has rebuilt engine and transmission. I have the paperwork and know it runs well. With that said it has been setting for awhile we plan on fixing hoses and suggested seals. We purchased and drove it from California to Montana. The engine has good power and transmission seemed very good. Engine runs with no smoke or oil leaks. ;D
Thanks all 5 to 6 grand seems fair.
John
I've been told that with MCI's, two mechanics would change powerpacks in a single 8 hour shift. Driver would drop it off, and pick it up for his next day's run with a new engine. That's obviously people with the tools and the stuff, and a routine down.
Brian
I been told that the Greyhound could change the engine in a 4106 GM in 4 hrs too no way do I buy into that after removing and installing a couple in a GM
Now no one above took in to account the time or man hours to buy , pickup, or drink the beer and just how many it would take to complete the job!...
when my mechanic and I removed mine it was 3 hrs and when we installed it after it was rebuilt it was 5.5 hrs and we had it running . now I have to pay him $$ + beer . 4 beers to remove and 6-8 beers to install no driving after though . good guy but he sure likes the free beer but then again he knows his stuff and does the work in my garage
dave
Where in MT?
Quote from: luvrbus on June 27, 2015, 08:20:19 AM
I've been told that Greyhound could change the engine in a 4106 GM in 4 hrs, too. No way do I buy into that after removing and installing a couple in a GM.
Think what you will, Clifford, but I've actually seen it.
When I was in college in the early '70's, I got a complete tour of the then-in-full-swing Greyhound shop in San Francisco to fulfill an Industrial Technology course requirement. I met the shop foreman at 9 am, we toured the entire facility from the wash rack to the HD rebuild room, then he bought me lunch.
In one corner of the shop, a 4106 sat next to a Scenicruiser, both getting new power trains. Both had been pulled into their respective bays between 7:30 and 8 am, according to the foreman, and he also said to make note of the GM's fleet number, because the '06 will be gone after we come back from lunch.
And it was, with another GM in it's place, this time a 4107. The Scenic was still there. He told me the teams could routinely swap two GM V-Drives in the time it takes a team to swap one Scenicruiser or MCI T-Drive.
Their "secret" was the technicians worked as a team, two per coach, and each one worked "his side" of the vehicle. They also had complete power packs ready to go, sitting on the cradle, so once everything was unhooked, it was simply a matter of pulling out the old cradle, sliding in the rebuilt and hooking everything back up. Lots of power tools and a fork lift with special tines on it designed to hold the cradle perfectly. Don't forget, too, that these guys did this daily, so they had all the proper equipment and the routine down to a science. That alone makes a big difference.
FWIW & HTH. . .
;)
The biggest time consumer on the 4104 is removing driveshaft from trans end if it still had the old emergency brake drum. Probably,they separated it at the slip joint. I heard average bus company did t in 8 hours.
When I had my engine turbocharged, Don Fairchild removed the whole engine pack (V-drive). With a helper, the entire engine was out in 2hrs. He had to put it into place numerous times to fit the turbo, and was relatively easy compared to a T-drive. But-of course a T drive has unlimited engine/transmission combos compared to the Vdrive with the about 6 engines and 4 transmissions available (the transmission with the most versatility is the V730).
If you are changing the engine/transmission, I would do a refresh overhaul and at least install new rings and bearings. Good Luck, TomC