You know those straight slot screws that hold the brake drum to the hub. :)
I finally got to the working on the brakes on the Scenic in hopes to get it usable for the summer. I have started with the drive axle and have managed to get three of the five off the passenger side. Been a slow process of spraying penetration oil and impact screw driver.
I haven't been able to get any from the drivers side off yet and it came to me that they may be reverse threaded as the lug nuts are. Does anybody know if this is the case? Does anyone know of a good method of removing these screws.
I found that the brakes are seized on the drive axle and have not operated in some time.
Thanks in advance,
Jack
Jack,
You have probably already done this, but just in case....
When I was in your position, I found a cold chisel that fit the entire head exactly. It was TIGHT! Then I found a socket to fit over the other end, and used my impact on those suckers. I pushed really hard on the impact, so it wouldn't slip. It worked slicker then a pig in mud.
Ours were not reverse threaded. Then again, it was a 95 ;D
Have fun,
John
Take a torch and blow the heads off or drill the heads off, remove the drum and you can then unscrew those suckers with little effort and you are not going to hurt the drum just watch for grease fires if using a torch
I did what John did with the cold chisel and impact gun. Mine came right off without a single hitch.
I replaced mine with the same size screw, but with an Allen head, and lots of antiseeze, so they will be easier to remove next time. You can find them at a bolt supply type store.
JC
Do what Clifford suggests, flame wrench is your best friend. I've done the drill them out thing and it's a PITA.
Brian
I agree! These are boogers to remove. I did as Clifford suggested. I drilled a small pilot hole to get a good center, then went to a bit that took off the rest of the flathead. I like that over the torch, because you don't wind up blowing more of the screw away than you intended. I had a couple that just would not budge with heat penetrating oil over night, whatever. I drilled them out to the ID of the threads then cleaned out the remaining thread material with a tap. To my horror, the shoes (what was left) had not touched the drums in years!
torch....heat till they melt out. let them drip, unless you are very good with a torch, don't want to nip the drum :(
Quote from: lostagain on May 22, 2015, 11:20:47 AM
I replaced mine with the same size screw, but with an Allen head, and lots of antiseeze, so they will be easier to remove next time. You can find them at a bolt supply type store.
JC
Why replace them?
John
Because I had to use brute force and ignorance to remove them. Some I drilled, some I burnt.
I thought about not using any at all, as the drum is held on by the wheel studs, but those screws do hold the drum centered on the hub before the wheel is put on.
JC
Quote from: lostagain on May 23, 2015, 06:14:40 AM
Because I had to use brute force and ignorance to remove them. Some I drilled, some I burnt.
I thought about not using any at all, as the drum is held on by the wheel studs, but those screws do hold the drum centered on the hub before the wheel is put on.
JC
I'm sure they serve the purpose to keep the drum on when removing the wheel. I'm not sure they are that important for how many times I will be taking off the wheels with my RV use.
Just my thoughts
John :)
Thanks all!!
The torch did the trick and I have gotten all four drums off. All shoes look good, however it appears only one brake out of the four was functioning.
I would like to disassemble and clean grease and reassemble to get them working smoothly, however I can't seem to figure out how the shoes are removed. My manual doesn't seem to have the brake section in it.
What's the best way to get the shoes removed?
Thanks,
Jack
(https://busconversionmagazine.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.busconversions.com%2Fbbs%2Findex.php%3Faction%3Ddlattach%3Btopic%3D29168.0%3Battach%3D26874%3Bimage&hash=b7453788003c9b62d1003cb993062ae5b3dcff6f)
Referring to the picture above... what i do is back the s cam off until the rollers are on the low spot.
Take your foot or a bar and pry down the lower shoe.
pull out the roller
lift the upper shoe
pull out the roller
knock out the anchors if they are closed..
that's the basics.
not exactly sure what anchors you have...could be a bent pin, knok it out with a punch if it is...Q BRAKES
the whole mess should (with a little bit of juggling) fall on the floor.
Reassembly...is a different story.
The return spring is a breeze with this tool.
(https://busconversionmagazine.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.zeckhausen.com%2Fimages%2Fbrake_install%2FBMW%2FE39%2FMovit%2Frear%2F13t_SpringTool.jpg&hash=0713685dc371060bd063969487fa54a696c25106)
Just insert the spring tool (bottom left in the picture) turn and poof - on or off it's a snap (figuratively speaking of course).
Hey, I have a whole box of those screws if you need replacements :)
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
The spring in the picture Eagle posted doesn't look right to me,generally the spring goes inside the web not on the outside,there will be a bent pin,for lack of a better term, that goes thru a hole in the web and the spring attaches to it,one on each shoe.
Quote from: Aaron on June 08, 2015, 09:32:11 PM
The spring in the picture Eagle posted doesn't look right to me,generally the spring goes inside the web not on the outside,there will be a bent pin,for lack of a better term, that goes thru a hole in the web and the spring attaches to it,one on each shoe.
There is more than one brake config... the picture is meant to be atypical.
Q brakes have springs on both sides.
other designs have one.
Quote from: eagle19952 on June 08, 2015, 02:11:27 PM
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The springs and drum are easier to install if you back the s-cam completely off. You should lube the s-cam rollers.
Quote from: Lee Bradley on June 09, 2015, 08:54:07 AM
The springs and drum are easier to install if you back the s-cam completely off. You should lube the s-cam rollers.
actually at this point u should change the S cam bushings if they are in need. then grease them.
I have never greased the rollers where do you do that ?
A tiny bit of grease on the contact points at the shoe on the S cam roller is advised, but not the cam to roller contact.
I put hundreds in dry...
greased the anchor ends tho..
YMMV
http://www.axletech.com/resources/service_manuals/pdf/MM_4.pdf (http://www.axletech.com/resources/service_manuals/pdf/MM_4.pdf)
FWIW see figure 3.3
Thanks all,
I was specifically interested in the style used on the drive and tag axles of the PD 4501. The type eagle19952 seems to be a popular setup as that is the type I have found a lot of youtube videos on. The Scenic uses nuts instead of pins. I was wondering if anyone had any tips on how shoes on this type are removed. I have removed and backed off the nuts be it's not budging.
Here are a couple pics:
Drive axle
(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/110124232/Drive%20Axle.jpg)
Tag axle
(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/110124232/Tag_Axle.jpg)
Thanks,
Jack
pry the link plate off ???
often a dimpled bolt implies a puller ???
sorrry that's all I got... :-\
the more i look at this...(tho I am not familiar with this design)...the condition of the shoes is good.
were I you I would post a pic of the s cam side....,
have some one step on the brakes and watch what happens..
then I think I would remove the return spring and see what is holding the brakes from expanding
are they adjusted properly ?
Quote from: eagle19952 on June 09, 2015, 10:45:30 AM
actually at this point u should change the S cam bushings if they are in need. then grease them.
I have never greased the rollers where do you do that ?
A tiny bit of grease on the contact points at the shoe on the S cam roller is advised, but not the cam to roller contact.
I put hundreds in dry...
greased the anchor ends tho..
YMMV
http://www.axletech.com/resources/service_manuals/pdf/MM_4.pdf (http://www.axletech.com/resources/service_manuals/pdf/MM_4.pdf)
FWIW see figure 3.3
I lube the side and small ends so it will turn easily in the brake shoe; to keep the roller from sliding on the S-cam. So of the new rollers have crosshatching to help them roll on the S-cam.