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Bus Discussion => Bus Topics ( click here for quick start! ) => Topic started by: Bryan on February 25, 2015, 02:03:14 PM

Title: starter didn't stop starting
Post by: Bryan on February 25, 2015, 02:03:14 PM
hey guys, it's cold here today so she didn't want to start, I think the battery is a little low, but one time when I tried to start it, the starter kept turning over for about 15 seconds after I let off of the key switch, it was really strange, of course it drained the battery even more, then quite, then a loud hum came from the engine compartment for about 15 seconds then shut off... anyone know what happened?
Title: Re: starter didn't stop starting
Post by: bobofthenorth on February 25, 2015, 02:26:56 PM
You burned up your solenoid.  Low voltage means higher amps.  It was initially hard turning because of the cold - batteries show lower voltage and the oil is thicker.  Your solenoid was already on the way out, got hot from the extra amps and the heat stuck the contacts together. 
Title: Re: starter didn't stop starting
Post by: luvrbus on February 25, 2015, 02:52:24 PM
Yep or he melted one of the battery terminals
Title: Re: starter didn't stop starting
Post by: Bryan on February 25, 2015, 03:22:23 PM
It started right up after I charged the battery again, do you think it's alright?
Title: Re: starter didn't stop starting
Post by: gumpy on February 25, 2015, 03:41:11 PM
Quote from: Bryan on February 25, 2015, 03:22:23 PM
It started right up after I charged the battery again, do you think it's alright?


Nah, it's toast. You're gonna need a whole new bus!


Just kidding. I don't have any idea if it's ok or not. Usually, though, it's not a good thing when the solenoid sticks. It typically means it's welded it's contacts, and
of course that means it probably has limited life left in it.
Title: Re: starter didn't stop starting
Post by: bobofthenorth on February 25, 2015, 03:44:40 PM
If you replace the solenoid now the starter may be OK.  If it stays engaged sometime when the bus starts you'll need a whole starter.
Title: Re: starter didn't stop starting
Post by: eagle19952 on February 25, 2015, 03:44:52 PM
Quote from: Bryan on February 25, 2015, 03:22:23 PM
It started right up after I charged the battery again, do you think it's alright?

You might get by IF your battery is ALWAYS fully charged...

There is a copper washer looking contact/connector in there, many can be taken apart and filed/surfaced to remove/reduce pitting and arc markings...Some the washer can be flipped over and there is a new contact surface.
The solenoid is removable without removing the starter.
Title: Re: starter didn't stop starting
Post by: luvrbus on February 25, 2015, 03:48:27 PM
Same as Craig and Bob said it is only a matter of time before it sticks again or not engage when you least expect it you need to go ahead and spend that 60 bucks for a new one not a rebuilt unit.lol I feel for you changing that sucker on a GM bus  ;D
Title: Re: starter didn't stop starting
Post by: Bryan on February 25, 2015, 04:13:24 PM
How do I know which solenoid it is and where do I buy these? Thanks!
Title: Re: starter didn't stop starting
Post by: gus on February 25, 2015, 04:25:12 PM
Quote from: Bryan on February 25, 2015, 03:22:23 PM
It started right up after I charged the battery again, do you think it's alright?

Listen very carefully to make sure the starter isn't still engaged while the engine is running. Happened to my 4104.

Luckily I had battery disconnect switches which really cuts down on the smoke!
Title: Re: starter didn't stop starting
Post by: Bryan on February 25, 2015, 04:42:43 PM
Quote from: gus on February 25, 2015, 04:25:12 PM
Listen very carefully to make sure the starter isn't still engaged while the engine is running. Happened to my 4104.

Luckily I had battery disconnect switches which really cuts down on the smoke!

I do have a battery disconnect right above the battery, by listening to it, how will I recognize if the starter is still engaged?
Title: Re: starter didn't stop starting
Post by: bobofthenorth on February 25, 2015, 04:48:09 PM
Quote from: Bryan on February 25, 2015, 04:13:24 PM
How do I know which solenoid it is and where do I buy these? Thanks!

Its a little smaller than a can of beans and it lives directly attached to the starter.  I know where I'd buy one but I'd buy it from my favorite terrorist starter rebuilders in Saskatoon.  That's not much help to you.
Title: Re: starter didn't stop starting
Post by: Bryan on February 25, 2015, 05:19:38 PM
I just called one of my truck driving buddies and he brought up a good point... it may be that my key switch got hung up, it's a cheapo from autozone.
Title: Re: starter didn't stop starting
Post by: eagle19952 on February 25, 2015, 05:56:32 PM
Quote from: Bryan on February 25, 2015, 05:19:38 PM
I just called one of my truck driving buddies and he brought up a good point... it may be that my key switch got hung up, it's a cheapo from autozone.

not likely ...  >:(
Title: Re: starter didn't stop starting
Post by: luvrbus on February 25, 2015, 06:09:07 PM
Only 2 solenoids for the 12V Delco 42 starter Delo #s 1115556 or 119851 but I forgot which number is for the 4 terminal or the 3 terminal NAPA will have it or can get it next day.If you have the Allison 730 the starter is probably full of oil and needs to come off anyway to be cleaned   
Title: Re: starter didn't stop starting
Post by: expressbus on February 26, 2015, 02:35:00 PM
I had a similar situation in Boston, 1974, during Christmas week. I had a really fun 1966 Dodge Town Wagon that I had changed the original 318 cubic inch engine out to a 392 cubic inch Hemi. That week the outdoor temperature did not get above -5 degrees. I went out to start the Wagon and it started, but like you, the starter disengaged but kept spinning. I had to remove the battery cable to get it to stop. Yes, the problem was the starter solenoid. I was able to get one locally and did the replacement laying on the concrete floor in my brother-in-laws unheated garage. Never experienced another problem with the starter or solenoid after the fix. I'll never forget the feeling of freezing fingers working on metal bolts at -5 degrees!
My vote goes to your having to replace the starter solenoid.
Good luck on getting yours repaired.
Title: Re: starter didn't stop starting
Post by: Bryan on February 26, 2015, 02:51:11 PM
Quote from: expressbus on February 26, 2015, 02:35:00 PM
I had a similar situation in Boston, 1974, during Christmas week. I had a really fun 1966 Dodge Town Wagon that I had changed the original 318 cubic inch engine out to a 392 cubic inch Hemi. That week the outdoor temperature did not get above -5 degrees. I went out to start the Wagon and it started, but like you, the starter disengaged but kept spinning. I had to remove the battery cable to get it to stop. Yes, the problem was the starter solenoid. I was able to get one locally and did the replacement laying on the concrete floor in my brother-in-laws unheated garage. Never experienced another problem with the starter or solenoid after the fix. I'll never forget the feeling of freezing fingers working on metal bolts at -5 degrees!
My vote goes to your having to replace the starter solenoid.
Good luck on getting yours repaired.

Wow! That is COLD!!! Glad you got it fixed though!
Title: Re: starter didn't stop starting
Post by: Bryan on February 26, 2015, 02:52:37 PM
I found out today that one of my batteries was completely dead, ended up replacing both of them, I'm feeling charged and powerful at the moment :-)
Title: Re: starter didn't stop starting
Post by: Barn Owl on February 28, 2015, 05:02:13 AM
My solenoid started sticking soon after I got my bus. It was not the contacts but the body of the solenoid had seemed to have swollen or became deformed in my case. Back then it was a $30 easy fix.
Title: Re: starter didn't stop starting
Post by: John Z on March 01, 2015, 08:25:48 AM
Just in case the new battery or a new solenoid isn't a permanent solution - I had the same thing happening INTERMITTENTLY a few years ago. Every thing I tried, appeared to fix the problem for maybe 8 - 10 starts. After a new solenoid, starter switch, starter relay, and starter rebuild, I was tracing related wiring and found a spot on the wire that runs from relay to starter, that had wore a tiny spot down to bare wire. When this contacted ground, the starter would run. A little electrician tape, and a few zip ties so it does not come in contact, and the problem went away. It's been good for 3+ years. Good luck!
Title: Re: starter didn't stop starting
Post by: gus on March 04, 2015, 08:00:49 PM
Quote from: Bryan on February 25, 2015, 04:42:43 PM
I do have a battery disconnect right above the battery, by listening to it, how will I recognize if the starter is still engaged?

It will sound like grinding rocks.

It will also keep the engine running slowly after the fuel is shut off. Don't ask me how I became an expert at this!

There is the solenoid at the starter and also a small relay in the electrical comp. Either one shorted will cause the same symptoms.